Origin and info-please on a Jeme or Geme shotgun

2hooked · October 16, 2010, 09:44 AM

Bought a 12 ga S/S yesterday that is European with sling swivels and stock cheek piece. All the ser. numbers match, the barrels are marked nitro with lots of other symbles and the name in script that is either Geme or Jeme.
Can you provide any info as to where and who made it?
Thanks
Gary

Jim Watson · October 16, 2010, 10:04 AM

If you showed pictures of some of those secret symbols it would let us tell you where the gun was made, most foreign proof marks are pretty distinctive.

2hooked · October 18, 2010, 08:00 AM

Here are some pics. I hope you can see something that helps.
Gary

SDC · October 18, 2010, 09:18 AM

Your pictures aren't clear enough to be able to see the proof marks, but the styling is German, and the "J..." or "G..." could be any one of several German abbreviations. If you can take some clearer photos, or even draw some of the marks on a piece of paper and post a picture of that, we could probably track it down.

mapsjanhere · October 18, 2010, 09:32 AM

Hard to make anything out clearly, but the mark on the barrel looks like the ELG in oval, and there's something like the candlestick on the action, what would make it Belgian. But a clearer set of pictures would help -stay back more to make sure you get it focused, and then zoom in afterward.

2hooked · October 18, 2010, 06:15 PM

Thanks for your suggestions on the pictures. Here are some more on the proof marks.
Gary

SDC · October 18, 2010, 06:26 PM

You've got a well-made German gun, a Merkel; the "GM" in a shield and the GeMe stand for "Gebruder Merkel", or "Merkel Brothers". It's got pre-WW2 proofs, and Merkel wasn't formed until 1900 or so, so it was almost certainly a "bring-back" in some GI's dufflebag. The proofs show it's a 12-gauge, but these guns commonly have 65mm/2 1/2" chambers, so PLEASE don't shoot it until you have the chamber lengths measured; it would be a shame to damage it.

2hooked · October 18, 2010, 09:47 PM

Thank you very much for taking a look and providing the information.
Gary

mapsjanhere · October 19, 2010, 07:45 AM

Good set of early German proof marks, eagle (preliminary) crown over U (final) and crown over W (choked barrel). The absence of a date stamp usually indicates a pre-WWI weapon. Starting in 1912 there should have been a 70 next to the 12 if the gun was chambered in 12/70. If it's pre 1912 is should have a stamp with the proof load somewhere which you don't seem to have, so my guess is a 12/65 gun made sometime around 1914.

2hooked · October 21, 2010, 09:25 PM

Thanks again for the added information.
Is there any chance I could trade this for a Greener in 20ga.? How or where could this be done?

Gary

bob.a · October 21, 2010, 11:00 PM

I looked thru my online Bluebook; there's not a lot of info on pre-WWII Merkel shotguns. The only ones listed are either sidelock models, or a boxlock with sideplates, which is not the case for your gun, near as I can make out.

The modern Merkels run a large gamut of values, and without knowing the model and condition it's impossible to deternmine value.

Greener guns are also available in numerous pricepoints, going up to six figures, and down thru a grand or so.

You best bet would be to find an outfit that deals in high-end shotguns. They would have the expertise to value your shotgun, and probably be able to point you toward a Greener. I haven't been in that game for some time, but you might look and see who's dealing in that sort of gun on gunbroker, for openers. I recall Chadick's in Texas as being a high-end double gun dealer; I believe they're still in play.

2hooked · November 7, 2010, 06:12 PM

I ordered a Standard Catalog of Firearms after seeing one at a gun show last week. I think I have found my model number. I would still like to trade it for a Greener or Parker of equal value.
The Merkel has a 14 3/8" LOP, 29" barrels, 2 1/2" twelve gauge chambers, right cheek piece and is in very good to excellent condition. I can provide pictures and more information if anyone wants. I can be e-mailed at [email protected]

Thanks for everyone leading me in the right direction.
Gary

October 16, 2010, 09:44 AM	#1
2hooked Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2010 Posts: 9	Origin and info-please on a Jeme or Geme shotgun Bought a 12 ga S/S yesterday that is European with sling swivels and stock cheek piece. All the ser. numbers match, the barrels are marked nitro with lots of other symbles and the name in script that is either Geme or Jeme. Can you provide any info as to where and who made it? Thanks Gary

October 18, 2010, 09:18 AM	#4
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Your pictures aren't clear enough to be able to see the proof marks, but the styling is German, and the "J..." or "G..." could be any one of several German abbreviations. If you can take some clearer photos, or even draw some of the marks on a piece of paper and post a picture of that, we could probably track it down. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

October 18, 2010, 09:32 AM	#5
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Hard to make anything out clearly, but the mark on the barrel looks like the ELG in oval, and there's something like the candlestick on the action, what would make it Belgian. But a clearer set of pictures would help -stay back more to make sure you get it focused, and then zoom in afterward. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 18, 2010, 06:26 PM	#7
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	You've got a well-made German gun, a Merkel; the "GM" in a shield and the GeMe stand for "Gebruder Merkel", or "Merkel Brothers". It's got pre-WW2 proofs, and Merkel wasn't formed until 1900 or so, so it was almost certainly a "bring-back" in some GI's dufflebag. The proofs show it's a 12-gauge, but these guns commonly have 65mm/2 1/2" chambers, so PLEASE don't shoot it until you have the chamber lengths measured; it would be a shame to damage it. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

October 18, 2010, 09:47 PM	#8
2hooked Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2010 Posts: 9	Gun info Thank you very much for taking a look and providing the information. Gary

October 16, 2010, 10:04 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	If you showed pictures of some of those secret symbols it would let us tell you where the gun was made, most foreign proof marks are pretty distinctive.

October 19, 2010, 07:45 AM	#9
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Good set of early German proof marks, eagle (preliminary) crown over U (final) and crown over W (choked barrel). The absence of a date stamp usually indicates a pre-WWI weapon. Starting in 1912 there should have been a 70 next to the 12 if the gun was chambered in 12/70. If it's pre 1912 is should have a stamp with the proof load somewhere which you don't seem to have, so my guess is a 12/65 gun made sometime around 1914. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 21, 2010, 09:25 PM	#10
2hooked Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2010 Posts: 9	Merkel---Trade Thanks again for the added information. Is there any chance I could trade this for a Greener in 20ga.? How or where could this be done? Gary

October 21, 2010, 11:00 PM	#11
bob.a Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 298	I looked thru my online Bluebook; there's not a lot of info on pre-WWII Merkel shotguns. The only ones listed are either sidelock models, or a boxlock with sideplates, which is not the case for your gun, near as I can make out. The modern Merkels run a large gamut of values, and without knowing the model and condition it's impossible to deternmine value. Greener guns are also available in numerous pricepoints, going up to six figures, and down thru a grand or so. You best bet would be to find an outfit that deals in high-end shotguns. They would have the expertise to value your shotgun, and probably be able to point you toward a Greener. I haven't been in that game for some time, but you might look and see who's dealing in that sort of gun on gunbroker, for openers. I recall Chadick's in Texas as being a high-end double gun dealer; I believe they're still in play.

November 7, 2010, 06:12 PM	#12
2hooked Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2010 Posts: 9	Model 118 Gerbruder Merkel I ordered a Standard Catalog of Firearms after seeing one at a gun show last week. I think I have found my model number. I would still like to trade it for a Greener or Parker of equal value. The Merkel has a 14 3/8" LOP, 29" barrels, 2 1/2" twelve gauge chambers, right cheek piece and is in very good to excellent condition. I can provide pictures and more information if anyone wants. I can be e-mailed at [email protected] Thanks for everyone leading me in the right direction. Gary

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