Casting lube making me sick?

[Nick_C_S]

Hi folks - I don't cast bullets, so I thought I'd come here looking for answers. . .

The last two times out at the range when I was shooting lead bullets, I inhaled considerable amounts of smoke. Nothing new. I've been shooting for years. But these last two times (early Sept, and Oct 21), the following day, and for about 10 days thereafter, I became very ill.

It started with a scratchy throat later the same day; and by the following day, it developed into a sinus/lung ailment with symptoms very similar to the flu. It goes on for days. And the stuff I cough out of my lungs - especially in the morning - well, that's just a special kind of disgusting, let me tell you.

I think it's the bullet lube - you know, that (usually) blue strip between the drive bands. For more background, most of the time when I shoot lead, I shoot either 38 Special 148g DEWC's, or LSWC's. And on the 45 ACP side, 200g LSWC's. I get my bullets from a few different well-known manufacturers that you'd immediately recognize. Where I get them is aside the point. I'm not looking to sue anybody - I'm just trying to figure out what's going on. I'm 11 days into this last episode, and I'm just now getting back to normal.

Between these two episodes, I've been to the range (I shoot a lot) with jacket/plated bullets and didn't have any issues. That's why I think it's the lube on the lead.

Since I don't cast bullets, I thought I'd come here and ask: What is the substance that is used to lubricate bullets? And is there anywhere I can look to find out more information regarding the inhalation of these substance(s)?

Normally, I'm a very healthy person. I rarely get sick. But these last two trips to the range with lead bullets really tore me up bad. I really want to get some idea of what's going on.

Thanks,
Nick.

[Beagle333]

You can find what kind of lube it is from the manufacturers website, or by calling them. Most lead slingers are particular about the lubes they like and so nearly every commercial bullet maker that I have seen, posts the kinds of lube offered on their site.
Most are mixtures of beeswax, carnauba wax, paraffin, and some coloring. But there are as many types of lubes as there are things to shoot at.
Find the brand/type of lube used, and a recipe (or something close) will be easier to research.

[Old 454]

Are you shooting at an indoor range, and how good is the ventalation there. Could be there having a ventalation problem. Switching from air conditioning to heating, filters maybe dirty and need to be changed. Just a thought.

There is alsot of flu like crap going around right now also, my son and my wife have it, I guess I am next.

[Nick_C_S]

It's an outdoor range. (Also, I don't smoke - anything.)

The first time it happened in Sept, I had the scratchy throat when I got back from the range, but when I woke up sick the next morning with flu-like symptoms, I passed it of as catching a bug and the trip to the range was just a coincidence.

But the second time it happened exactly the same way (except worse) - that's no coincidence. And I've never gotten the flu (or any bug) that close together - my immune system would have the anti-bodies to fight it off the second time.

I never caught a "bug." It was the smoke from the range.

[Nick_C_S]

Bees wax, carnauba, paraffin. I would think those are fairly benign. Maybe not. Who knows after it's been spit out of a flaming barrel? Maybe I'm becoming allergic - wouldn't that just be a hoot. Not.

[Mike / Tx]

What powders are you using? How old is it? Could be the combined effect, allergy to something in the lube aggravated by older powder that is heading south..

[dahermit]

Normally, I'm a very healthy person. I rarely get sick. But these last two trips to the range with lead bullets really tore me up bad. I really want to get some idea of what's going on.

Hmmmm? Medical advice on a shooting forum? You may have heard the term, "Red Herring". Doctors use it to refer to an apparent cause that turns out not to be the cause. It may very well be the bullet lube, smoke, etc., from shooting, or it could be something else entirely. See your doctor and let him figure it out. It is what he does.

[m&p45acp10+1]

Nick I would suggest going to the doctor for an allergies test. As we get older our allergies tend to get worse. Since it was an outdoor range high pollen would more than likely be the culprit. A lot of people that have allergy problems tend to think it is a cold, or flu bug. More times than not it is sinusitis (inflamed sinuses.) If it turns to an infection it mimics the flu. It is also typical to have lots of lung congestion. I have bad allergies myself, and take antihistamines daily to combat the problems.

If the stuff coming out is clear with black cloudy looking streaks then it is the bullet lube. If it has red splotches it is likely elm. If it is brown looking in the clear stuff it is likely dust, and or pollen.

[Nick_C_S]

Yes, the doctor visit is Monday.

Now that I found out what kind of lubricants are used, I did some research. They're all pretty benign compounds - even when oxidized.

I think the smoke is aggravating my sinus/lungs, and then something else (a bug of some kind) is taking advantage of my weakened state. Not a "red herring" per se, but kind of along the same lines.

My main concern was that the lubricant was some kind of industrial compound that can be hazardous when oxidized (never thought it was likely - given all the decades people have been shooting with lubricated bullets). And that question has been answered.

Thanks for all the input folks. It's appreciated.

[zxcvbob]

Get some 3M nuisance dust masks -- the ones that say "N95" somewhere on the package -- and wear one while shooting; see if that helps. They cost about $1 each in large packages, or $2 to $3 each in small packs.

[bedbugbilly]

#1 - go to your doctor with your information and let him check you out good - it may very well be the lube or it could be something else . . . he is the best one to advise you.

#2 - The face masks suggested or even a filtered respirator that covers you mouth and nose - there isn't anything "sissy" about wearing one. If it is the lube, the smoke, etc. - those are things you can work on changing. Don't overlook the powder in your loads either. Alergies can be hard to track down sometimes. You wear safety eyewear when you shoot . . . there's nothing wrong with wearing respiratory protection either.

I shoot at an indoor range during the winter - their ventilation is very good but you put a lot of shooters in the firing room - there's a lot of stuff flying around. It would seem like there would be adequate ventilation at an outdoor range - but - firing a lot, you produce a lot of smoke. Good luck on tracking this down and please let us know what you come up with - it may be pretty beneficial to others as well.

[zxcvbob]

The indoor range where I shoot sometimes has good ventilation and sometimes it's terrible -- I think it has todo with which way the wind is blowing and how hard (it overwhelms the exhaust fans.) Also if too many people are shooting centerfire pistols at the same time instead of .22's it can get pretty smoky. I've started carrying a N95 dust mask in my pocket; I don't automatically put it on when I shoot, but I have it there if I need it. (the one week I put the mask on before going downstairs, there was no smoke or dust and the vents were working just fine

It also comes in handy if I'm there at cleanup time. Sweeping downrange stirs up a lot of lead dust. (If I owned the place, it would never be swept, instead would be damp-mopped once or twice a week)

[Nick_C_S]

Talked to the doc today about it. He actually knew the lube on bullets are paraffin. He said it and spent propellant can be a lung irritant and that, coupled with a probable secondary pathogen (bug), just put my respiratory system into a state of infection. Makes sense to me.

He recommended avoiding exposure via a mask or pick a breezy day (it actually tends to be breezy at my range - just not those two particular days). And to do a nasal rinse after shooting (which I do now).

So it looks like I'll live to shoot another day

[Mike / Tx]

Well ya know like mentioned above, as we unfortunately age our systems can and do change over time. I never was allergic to bee stings but the last one that got me put me in the emergency room. Wasp not an issue least not yet...

I used to laugh at my bud who had all sorts of fits with stuff int he woods while nothing bothered me one bit. Now though goat weed is to me like rag weed is to a lot of other folks, it just tears me a new one.

Glad you are headed in the right direction, for a while I was thinking hard that it might have been the beeswax having some sort of pollen effect on you.

[GP100man]

Anything with ALOX in it gives my sinuses a fit, within minutes my head is stopped up like corks up my nose.

After switching to White Labels Carnauba Red Lube , never a sinus drip .
Randy Rats TAC1 is good to go also .

The blue lube ya speak of is probably from magma industrys or blue angel lube .It`s a hard lube , so I imagine there`s alot of carnauba wax inlisted.

[gwpercle]

I don't think it is the bullet lube.
I shot in an bullseye shootin league for years, indoor range , cast bullets, we shot evey Tuesday night and I would practice on Thursday night...thats twice a week shooting for several years. None of us ever had a problem like you have had.
About two years ago, I developed a sinus infection, which led to an ear infection and the bug responsible was some what resistant to antibiotics and kept comming back ...it took a while but the doctor had to try 3 different drugs to finally clear it up. I had the same symptoms you have...these bugs have gotten resistent so are harder to get rid of and seem to last a long, long time before you get back to normal...just keep on top of it and if one medicine doesn't clear it up completely don't be afraid to tell the doctor ...It's not working...try something else.
Good luck...gary