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Old March 16, 2009, 06:51 PM   #51
David Armstrong
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Quote:
Try as they might I absolutely, positively guarantee I won't get convicted.
The jails have hundreds, if not thousands, of people in them that felt that same way!
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Old March 16, 2009, 07:12 PM   #52
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Does he look anything like this?
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Old March 16, 2009, 08:38 PM   #53
JohnH1963
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The jails are also full of people who were either innocent or where the decision of guilt was very controversial.

When the police make their decision to arrest you, then they usually stand by that decision to the bitter end. The prosecutor will stand by the officer's decision. The judge and jury will look down at you and only see a guy in handcuffs that the officer, who can do no wrong, arrested.

The best you can do in any situation is to make every attempt to avoid it in the first place. However, if a strange man rushes into my home, is in my yard or a violent situation presents itself, then Im not going to be thinking about the law. I will do what I think is right to protect myself or others.

For example, in some states you have to make an attempt to flee from your home before you can use lethal force. However, if some guy invades my house then I will probably be using lethal force and I wont be retreating no matter what the law might say.
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Old March 16, 2009, 09:19 PM   #54
Shane Tuttle
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I'm not an expert in this field nor do I pass myself off as one of the most knowledgeable members on this board. But I'll put in my two hay-pennies worth based on what you provided:

Quote:
4) If the target is obviously unarmed and starts running at me, then I would fire at the target, but in a manner to slow its speed rather then to kill. I would fire at the legs or a lower extremity below the heart. I would consider utilizing a warning shot into the ground or large tree. This is controversial in this forum, I know...most advocate always firing center mass and never using warning shots. I know the ability of my bullets and would consider where I was before firing a warning shot. If I was in a forest, then a shot into soft ground by a tree would certainly be low risk.
Since you didn't answer my question, I'm going to assume that you have the gun pointed at the subject rather than at low-ready. If the subject never was truly a threat to your life, you are the assailant, not him. The simple statement of "I felt my life as in imminent danger" just won't cut it. This is extremely subjective to people that aren't educated on diciphering the clues with a clear head.

If you think it's OK to fire your gun to just slow down the approach, you're putting your behind in the sling from the moment you touch off that round. If you really think you know your bullets and where they will go upon ricochets, then you might as well change your handle to Revolver Ocelot. Your statement is wrong on so many levels. If you don't see this, I really don't think I have the ability to articulate my point without further confusion. I think this should be left to someone else that's more qualified to explain.

And to top it off, you're ready and willing to shoot an unarmed person without considering other options? Responsible gunownership lies more heavily when NOT to shoot, rather than when TO shoot.
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Old March 16, 2009, 09:22 PM   #55
Steviewonder1
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When to FIRE

Shout GO AWAY, three times, with pistol drawn, then do the Mosambique Drill two to the body and one to the head, repeat if necessary. I still have more rounds to do this one more time...
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Old March 16, 2009, 09:50 PM   #56
David Armstrong
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Quote:
However, if a strange man rushes into my home, is in my yard or a violent situation presents itself, then Im not going to be thinking about the law.
I would suggest that is a terrrible tactic. You need to both know the law in your state regarding use of force and you need to think about that law when deciding to use force. If you don't think about the law, the shooting and the aftermath, you are planning to fail, IMO. What good does it do to survive an encounter if you lose your home and your family because you spend the rest of your life locked away from them?
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Old March 17, 2009, 12:22 AM   #57
onthejon55
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Quote:
Perhaps you could relate for the rest of us how you came to conclusion that you may shoot someone because he is "behaving in a threatening manner".
If someone threatened you life you wouldn't consider shooting them? That's sad and unfortunate for people who may rely on you for protection.
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Old March 17, 2009, 12:23 AM   #58
onthejon55
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Quote:
The jails have hundreds, if not thousands, of people in them that felt that same way!
They felt that way because they were wrong. Im not.

Quote:
The jails are also full of people who were either innocent or where the decision of guilt was very controversial.
+1. Thank You!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Armstrong
I would suggest that is a terrrible tactic.
I disagree. i would rather take my chances going to prison and guarantee my survival than risk my or my family's life.
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Old March 17, 2009, 08:22 AM   #59
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I wish to apologize to the forum. I posted a reply that tried to be humorous about the subject, but it fell terribley flat. That reply was deleted by the administration. I was wrong in trying to inject such humor into such a serious discussion..again forgive me..it will not happen again...
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Old March 17, 2009, 08:49 AM   #60
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If someone threatened you life you wouldn't consider shooting them? That's sad and unfortunate for people who may rely on you for protection.
You have obviously not studied any of the links I've posted.

NO, I WOULD NOT (shoot someone because he is "behaving in a threatening manner)"! I would remain very alert, but I would not shoot unless and until (1) I had reason to believe that that someone had the ability and opportunity to seriously injure me or mine, (2) I had reason to believe that we were in imminent danger of serious bodily harm, and (3) it appeared to me that I had no reasonable alternative.

To do otherwise would constitute murder.

That's the law, and it has been for many centuries.

Actually, I would have been unlikely to draw under the circumstances described. Unlawful act, for a citizen, generally, unless there was imminent danger. Brandishing, assault, illegal use of a firearm ,depending on the state code....

Quote:
They felt that way [that they would not be convicted] because they were wrong. Im not.
Your basis for that brave assumption?

You just might be acquitted, or have your conviction overturned upon appeal under the circumstances described, even after having given the state a basis for establishing mens rea by your cavalier posts. I very seriously doubt it, however.

But let's assume for a moment that that will happen. While you are consulting with an experienced criminal trial attorney in advance, and I strongly recommend that you do so, you might ask him what he thinks the ordeal might cost you.
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Old March 17, 2009, 09:09 AM   #61
alberich
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Quote:
At what point can you fire?
Assuming that I really had a good reason to pull the gun, ie. I evaluated the situation and under my best knowledge I found that a life is in danger, I'd shoot immediatelly after he ignored the first warning.

However I'd never draw a gun when not in a real danger. I believe that posing with a gun - or even worse, thinking that a gun is some kind of a human remote control - is the worst error one can do. I mean a gun is a tool for killing things and one should never pull it if s/he is not in a situation when killing is morally justified (for our moral and experience is the only things we can use to make our decisions namely in a danger).
For me, a handgun is a last line of defence. For other than openly life threathening situations I'd rather use bare hands, telescopic batton or cajune pepper spray.
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Old March 17, 2009, 09:48 AM   #62
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
The jails are also full of people who were either innocent or where the decision of guilt was very controversial.
+1. Thank You!

Let that be sweet consolation to you during your 25-life for murder. Remember those words as everyone around you expounds on their own innocence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Armstrong
I would suggest that is a terrrible tactic.

I disagree. i would rather take my chances going to prison and guarantee my survival than risk my or my family's life.
You should NOT be considering the law during a SD shoot. There's no time. You need to make those considerations and decisions WAY before you need them and you'd better be right. You only get one chance.

Quote:
If someone threatened you life you wouldn't consider shooting them?
Therein lies the problem. What I'm asking you, and the OP, is what exactly this guy has done that you feel is a threat to your life? I see no reason that the gun has been drawn in the first place. Now that it has it is YOU who must be able to articulate to the law WHY you not only drew on but shot this man. I can absolutely guarantee that "He was walking toward me and wouldn't stop!" will NOT be justification enough.

Quote:
If you trip and fall then what? I am willing to bet he can close that 50 feet faster than you can get back up. In which case it would be a ground fight.
What if your gun doesn't fire? What if... What if there are an infinite number of "what ifs" so as to make any scenario mean anything to anyone who would like to insert the appropriate "What if.."
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; March 17, 2009 at 09:56 AM.
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Old March 17, 2009, 09:56 AM   #63
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Let that [(the assertion that the jails are full of people who were either innocent or where the decision of guilt was very controversial)] be sweet consolation to you during your 25-life for murder. Remember those words as everyone around you expounds on their own innocence.
That's great!
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Old March 17, 2009, 10:06 AM   #64
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And with that: closed.

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