Safariland Level III question

Coronach · May 25, 2000, 09:22 AM

Okay. So my PD provides us with Safariland Level III holsters, the kind with the thumb-break, the finger break and the internal block...so you have to hit two snaps and rock the gun back to draw it. A bit of a pain to get used to, but once you do its okay.

here's my problem. I was on the range yesterday and noted that the second finger break was starting to feel 'mushy.' It would break, but you had to either hit it JUUUUUUUST right, down by the snap, or really nail it hard to get it to release. During a break I took my gunbelt off and inspected it.
Turns out that the fingerbreak is made of a 'sandwich' of three different synthetic materials. There are two layers (interior and exterior) that are cosmetic and one internal layer that is providing rigidity. This layer hand a noticeable crack in it, allowing the whole piece to bend. So rather then exerting force on the snap and causing it to release, pushing on the fingerbreak was just causing the 'tab' you push on to wiggle and the snap stayed snapped.

Normally we would just go to the stockroom and sign out a new holster, but I was given some bad news. Some cost-cutting genius had decided that we would no longer be offered the level III holster. All new LEOs and anyone with a holster failure would be issued a level I holster.

So, my question is 1. anyone know how to fix this problem? or 2. anyone know if safariland will replace the holster? It is less than 1 year old...

Thanks,
Mike

------------------
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

Slowpoke_Rodrigo · May 25, 2000, 11:39 AM

Mike, I had a different reaction - I would jump at the opportunity to use a Level I rather than a III.

The next generation of holsters, Level IV, renders the pistol totally inaccessible - even to the LEO.

Coronach · May 25, 2000, 12:21 PM

I think that anyone who did any serious sort of drawing from a level I holster and then 'advanced' to a level III found the transition VERY difficult. I, on the other hand, never really did much drawing from anything BUT a Level III. I actually like it. Sure, it is inherently slower than a level I, no matter how good you get at it. But I was pretty decent with it, and I felt not in the least bit uncomfortable using it on duty.

Mike

------------------
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

Slowpoke_Rodrigo · May 25, 2000, 12:36 PM

That explains it - I put my papers in before there were many L3s.

I would be interested to know if LEO tendency to operate in Condition White increases as holster retention level increases.

In Level V, your holster is contained in your hip or leg - like that movie - robotcop?

[This message has been edited by Slowpoke_Rodrigo (edited May 25, 2000).]

Erik · May 25, 2000, 12:40 PM

I started out with the same holster. I practiced. A lot. I got "good" at my times.

Then I was hired by a department that issued level two holsters. Actually, they were boarderline level ones. My times improved dramatically. When I expressed concern about retention, the answer was, "that is why we place an emphasis on training to retain your weapon." (The department emphasizes training.) Level two is all you need, IMO

VictorLouis · May 25, 2000, 03:40 PM

Nothing wrong with an SSIII. I was pretty fond of the one that I had too. I would check with the uniform supply house that your Dept. purchased through. They may very well accomodate you on an exchange. If they were purchased directly through Safariland, I would be surprised if they did not at least offer to repair it. E-mail me if you neither of those two options pan out.

Coronach · May 25, 2000, 10:16 PM

Level III vs Level I or II:

I'd NEVER try to talk anyone out of their favorite type of holster. go with what works for you. Slowpoke, I'm pretty sure that if you had cut your teeth on a III, as I did, you'd have no problem with them. This is utterly unscientific, but in draw-shoot exercises among people with III and I holsters, the results seem utterly mixed, perhaps slightly favoring the level Is. The biggest difference of all appears to be training. If you practice drawing from a III, you can draw almost as fast as you could from a I.

However, if you don't train (or worse, convert AND don't train), you're in trouble. When the feces strikes the air circulation unit, you revert to what you know. And if you know level I...your weapon will be cemented at your side. Watch the video of the Kehoe brothers shootout in rural Ohio for a vivid illustration. The deputy got his piece out, but you could see the trooper with the level III trying to yank his hip out of socket. Bad stuff.

Condition white and gun retention:
Amen. Having additional retention devices is no replacement for vigilance. We train handgun retention and situational awareness. I can't speak for my fellow officers, but I try to NEVER let anyone get an angle on my gun. I don't care what level holster I have.

Anyway:
I will check with the uniform shop...however I have noted that their prices tend to be astronomical compared to what you can get on the web. So I'd be hoping for repair/replacement, either by them or through safariland itself. I'll look into it. And if not, I might be dropping you a line, VL.

Thanks,
Mike

------------------
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

DAVE MOON · May 26, 2000, 02:04 PM

I bet Safariland will replace the holster, since it's less than a year old. Their phone is 909-923-7300. www.safariland.com.

I was given a Safariland duty holster model 6280 to test a couple years ago. To be honest, I never really liked Safariland gear, especially the holsters, but as a favor, I tested it. This duty holster has a rotating hood over the hammer area, and with a motion similar to a thumbbreak, rotates forward to allow a top draw. Also has a tension screw.

This holster is secure, as it is much more difficult for a gungrabber to release the hood, especially from the front. It's also VERY fast to draw from. The real beauty is it is also EXTREMELY FAST to reholster and secure for those times when you have a gun in hand and must go hands on. It also seems very well made and the rotating hood hardware has shown no wear, and I really have tried to wear it out.

Like I said before, I'm not a huge fan of Safariland, but I do think this holster is the best duty holster out there.

SKN · May 26, 2000, 02:52 PM

By choice I used an SSIII from the day they first came out until the day I got out, carrying first a personally owned Smith 5906, then a department issued Glock 17 followed by a Smith 4006. I practiced so much I wore out two of them in the exact same place on the rear strap. I came to be as fast if not faster than others with less secure holsters.

Though many others complain about how difficult it is to present a handgun from it it served me well in arrest situations where the use of lethal force was not justifiable and in the knock-down, drag-out, roll around that followed, the suspect's resistance included unsuccessful attempts to remove my pistol from that holster.

I'm sure that Safariland will replace it.

Also, in the last 5 years of my SWAT assignment I used a Safariland 6004 series holster and found it just as secure and a tad faster for me to present from.

Stay Safe!

[This message has been edited by SKN (edited May 26, 2000).]

DAVE MOON · May 27, 2000, 02:53 AM

The 6004 is the SWAT / low ride thigh holster version of the 6280, an excellent rig, for all the reasons mentioned above.

4M Cattle Co · June 27, 2000, 08:06 PM

Try springbok.com

May 25, 2000, 09:22 AM	#1
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Okay. So my PD provides us with Safariland Level III holsters, the kind with the thumb-break, the finger break and the internal block...so you have to hit two snaps and rock the gun back to draw it. A bit of a pain to get used to, but once you do its okay. here's my problem. I was on the range yesterday and noted that the second finger break was starting to feel 'mushy.' It would break, but you had to either hit it JUUUUUUUST right, down by the snap, or really nail it hard to get it to release. During a break I took my gunbelt off and inspected it. Turns out that the fingerbreak is made of a 'sandwich' of three different synthetic materials. There are two layers (interior and exterior) that are cosmetic and one internal layer that is providing rigidity. This layer hand a noticeable crack in it, allowing the whole piece to bend. So rather then exerting force on the snap and causing it to release, pushing on the fingerbreak was just causing the 'tab' you push on to wiggle and the snap stayed snapped. Normally we would just go to the stockroom and sign out a new holster, but I was given some bad news. Some cost-cutting genius had decided that we would no longer be offered the level III holster. All new LEOs and anyone with a holster failure would be issued a level I holster. So, my question is 1. anyone know how to fix this problem? or 2. anyone know if safariland will replace the holster? It is less than 1 year old... Thanks, Mike ------------------ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

May 25, 2000, 11:39 AM	#2
Slowpoke_Rodrigo Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 1999 Posts: 607	Mike, I had a different reaction - I would jump at the opportunity to use a Level I rather than a III. The next generation of holsters, Level IV, renders the pistol totally inaccessible - even to the LEO.

May 25, 2000, 12:21 PM	#3
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	I think that anyone who did any serious sort of drawing from a level I holster and then 'advanced' to a level III found the transition VERY difficult. I, on the other hand, never really did much drawing from anything BUT a Level III. I actually like it. Sure, it is inherently slower than a level I, no matter how good you get at it. But I was pretty decent with it, and I felt not in the least bit uncomfortable using it on duty. Mike ------------------ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

May 25, 2000, 12:36 PM	#4
Slowpoke_Rodrigo Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 1999 Posts: 607	That explains it - I put my papers in before there were many L3s. I would be interested to know if LEO tendency to operate in Condition White increases as holster retention level increases. In Level V, your holster is contained in your hip or leg - like that movie - robotcop? [This message has been edited by Slowpoke_Rodrigo (edited May 25, 2000).]

May 25, 2000, 12:40 PM	#5
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	I started out with the same holster. I practiced. A lot. I got "good" at my times. Then I was hired by a department that issued level two holsters. Actually, they were boarderline level ones. My times improved dramatically. When I expressed concern about retention, the answer was, "that is why we place an emphasis on training to retain your weapon." (The department emphasizes training.) Level two is all you need, IMO

May 25, 2000, 03:40 PM	#6
VictorLouis Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,302	Nothing wrong with an SSIII. I was pretty fond of the one that I had too. I would check with the uniform supply house that your Dept. purchased through. They may very well accomodate you on an exchange. If they were purchased directly through Safariland, I would be surprised if they did not at least offer to repair it. E-mail me if you neither of those two options pan out.

May 25, 2000, 10:16 PM	#7
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Level III vs Level I or II: I'd NEVER try to talk anyone out of their favorite type of holster. go with what works for you. Slowpoke, I'm pretty sure that if you had cut your teeth on a III, as I did, you'd have no problem with them. This is utterly unscientific, but in draw-shoot exercises among people with III and I holsters, the results seem utterly mixed, perhaps slightly favoring the level Is. The biggest difference of all appears to be training. If you practice drawing from a III, you can draw almost as fast as you could from a I. However, if you don't train (or worse, convert AND don't train), you're in trouble. When the feces strikes the air circulation unit, you revert to what you know. And if you know level I...your weapon will be cemented at your side. Watch the video of the Kehoe brothers shootout in rural Ohio for a vivid illustration. The deputy got his piece out, but you could see the trooper with the level III trying to yank his hip out of socket. Bad stuff. Condition white and gun retention: Amen. Having additional retention devices is no replacement for vigilance. We train handgun retention and situational awareness. I can't speak for my fellow officers, but I try to NEVER let anyone get an angle on my gun. I don't care what level holster I have. Anyway: I will check with the uniform shop...however I have noted that their prices tend to be astronomical compared to what you can get on the web. So I'd be hoping for repair/replacement, either by them or through safariland itself. I'll look into it. And if not, I might be dropping you a line, VL. Thanks, Mike ------------------ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

May 26, 2000, 02:04 PM	#8
DAVE MOON Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 1999 Location: California Posts: 107	I bet Safariland will replace the holster, since it's less than a year old. Their phone is 909-923-7300. www.safariland.com. I was given a Safariland duty holster model 6280 to test a couple years ago. To be honest, I never really liked Safariland gear, especially the holsters, but as a favor, I tested it. This duty holster has a rotating hood over the hammer area, and with a motion similar to a thumbbreak, rotates forward to allow a top draw. Also has a tension screw. This holster is secure, as it is much more difficult for a gungrabber to release the hood, especially from the front. It's also VERY fast to draw from. The real beauty is it is also EXTREMELY FAST to reholster and secure for those times when you have a gun in hand and must go hands on. It also seems very well made and the rotating hood hardware has shown no wear, and I really have tried to wear it out. Like I said before, I'm not a huge fan of Safariland, but I do think this holster is the best duty holster out there.

May 26, 2000, 02:52 PM	#9
SKN Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 1998 Location: Oregon Posts: 264	By choice I used an SSIII from the day they first came out until the day I got out, carrying first a personally owned Smith 5906, then a department issued Glock 17 followed by a Smith 4006. I practiced so much I wore out two of them in the exact same place on the rear strap. I came to be as fast if not faster than others with less secure holsters. Though many others complain about how difficult it is to present a handgun from it it served me well in arrest situations where the use of lethal force was not justifiable and in the knock-down, drag-out, roll around that followed, the suspect's resistance included unsuccessful attempts to remove my pistol from that holster. I'm sure that Safariland will replace it. Also, in the last 5 years of my SWAT assignment I used a Safariland 6004 series holster and found it just as secure and a tad faster for me to present from. Stay Safe! [This message has been edited by SKN (edited May 26, 2000).]

May 27, 2000, 02:53 AM	#10
DAVE MOON Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 1999 Location: California Posts: 107	The 6004 is the SWAT / low ride thigh holster version of the 6280, an excellent rig, for all the reasons mentioned above.

June 27, 2000, 08:06 PM	#11
4M Cattle Co Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Posts: 18	Try springbok.com