My advice for wannabe stock refinishers

Thibault · August 19, 2001, 10:28 AM

For some time now, I have been working on my 30-06's stock. It has been a learning process all the way, and I'm not even done with it yet.
I really would like to share a bit of what I learned through this, if it could help someone out there...

I started with a mauser-action hardware-store-type Parker-Hale Midland 2600 in 30-06 that the two previous owners have taken very little care of. The finish, a cheapo walnut-colored stain, was in very bad shape, and the stock was rather scratched and dinged.

This was a first-time experience, with very basic hand tools (carving knife, a couple of rasps and lots of sandpaper), a little experience in woodworking and nothing to lose since I didn't like that rifle anyway.

- Removing the original finish is rather easy, with a good quality remover and medium steel wool. Ironing out the dings and sanding out the scratches makes the stock go a long way. If you're happy with that, then all is just fine.

But,

Once the finish is gone, if you think that the stock would look better with a (insert favorite detail here), then you're into trouble!

- Sand, sand, sand, and then sand some more...
- There are no such thing as a good looking hand-carved schnabel fore-end. Period.
- When you go out to buy sandpaper, get three times the sandpaper you think you'll need, so you'll only run short twice.
- Steel wool will smooth out anything to a silk-like finish, except for the rasp marks that will keep showing no matter what.
- If you have young children that have limited access to the basement, put a picture of yourself on the fridge, cause they won't see you in a loooong time.
- If midway through the project, you start thinking about the value of the time you spent, you find out you could have had a MacMillan by now.
- No matter how much time you spend shaping and sanding, you'll never be happy with the end result. Denial will catapult you in a never-ending project on an ever-shrinking stock.
- Trying to shape anything with 400 grit is pointless.
- Always wear eye protection while working. You may be tempted to gouge your eyes out with a screwdriver out of despair.
- If you start in May thinking you'll be done in time for (insert favorite big game season), think again. I hope you have a spare rifle.
- No matter how hard you try, it's never going to look like the 30k-plus 50's custom mausers you admire so much.

If you ever finish, please post pictures!

Just my 0.02...

Harley Nolden · August 19, 2001, 11:35 AM

Thibault:
I heard about rasp marks, and a lot of sanding. Removing the dents, (ironing) is correct. I wonder why a rasp would have to be used in the refinishing of a stock. That is unless there were really some deep dings? If so, it would seem that the project would have been better to start with a new semi-inletted stock

You did not mention if the stock was beechwood, walnut, birch or what ever, and each one will be treated somewhat differently.

You did not mention anything about "feathering" the wood. (Getting the stock wet letting it dry) to raise the "nap" removing the "feathers", then using a filling method and then finishng with a good gun stock finish.

I guess I should say, if I saw the stock, I probably would do it differently.

HJN

Thibault · August 19, 2001, 12:37 PM

Well, what started off as a refinishing job too soon turned out as an all-out reshaping of the damn thing...

-Checkering was really poor so off it went...
-Fore-end was uncomfortable for my rather small hands, plus it had a poor unesthetical (?) shape, so I rounded it off, tapering from the action in a semi-Obendorf-kinda shape...
-Since I am southpaw and the rifle is not, the useless cheekpiece went, adding a lot of drop to the stock so my eye is right on the sights upon shouldering.
-I opened the grip quite a bit, it is much more comfortable now.

I am not yet at the feathering part, but I should get started as soon as I consider anything else I could do as potential overkill.

The stock is birch, grain is fairly straight with little figure.

You are perfectly right. Going the inletted stock would have been cheaper and much easier, but the point of this exercise was to find out if I could do it, basically just for the hell of it.

And yes, if it would be to start all over again, I would do it much differently. The purpose of the whole thing was basically a learning process and a hobby. So far, it works.

I still have to 600 grit, feather, 600 grit again, stain and varnish the thing before putting it all back together. Moose season starts in 4 weeks, I guess I'll have to take my Enfield.

But you are absolutely right, Harley.
I basically did it because it was a gun I didn't like and did not really care for.

Harley Nolden · August 19, 2001, 03:19 PM

Thinbault:
As a suggestion. You indicate using 600 grit sand paper to feather, remove and then feather again. If you continue this process you will never get it feathered.

Feathering can be accomplished several ways.

1. with 0000 steelwool. Just pull it over the feathers.

2. With a small torch, cig lighter or some small flame. Yes! this leaves some small pores or openings. Using linseed oil and removing down to the wood will eventually fill them and make it look pretty good.

Personnaly I don't like birch wood for a gun stock. I prefer something with a little more mineral stripe. ie: Claro walnut, semi-fancy to fancy Black walnut, or something like that. I would do it on the Parker Hale too. Why make it look worse just because you don't like it. You can get a stock for right hand action, left hand shooter from Richards. Pretty good stocks too.

If that is the real case, make it look really nice then sell it. You won't get the price if it looks like doo doo. wish I wasn't out of the business, I'd buy it and use it.

HJN

Thibault · August 19, 2001, 04:33 PM

Well, even in its current unfinished state, I have to admit it looks pretty good (to my loving eye, anyway). Thanks for the feathering info, I shall go the steel wool way.
And no, I do not intend to sell it, because the "new" stock configuration does make it much more comfortable and I am growing to like it.
Perhaps I will eventually post pictures, it's not half as ugly as I made it sound like...

Thanks for the advice!

Joe Portale · August 19, 2001, 07:30 PM

Thibault,

There is no greater teacher than experience. I have refinished a number of stocks for myself anf friends. These ranged from a simple color change to attemping to refurbish a Turk Mauser wood that looked like it was used by a gorilla as a play thing. Let me pass on some of my experiences:

1) Throw out your rasp! No self respecting cabinet maker uses them. Refinishing a stock is closer to fine cabinet work than carving. The removal of the offending cheek piece could of been done using a small bloack plane with a heck of alot less drag cut marks. Just meaure the teeth on a rasp, some of the real course ones have teeth ober 1/8 inch long! You will be sanding until hell freezes over.

2) The use of course grit sand paper is also a no-no. If you need to remove a good deal of surface, use a cabinet scaper. These are not that expensive, come in various contours and remove more material than sand paper in a pass. A highly experineced cabionet maker can use a scaper that will leave a finish smooth as glass. My grand father never used sandpaper on cabinets, only a scaper.

3) Do not use sandpaper beyond 320. 400, 600 and the rest only polish the wood. There is a school of thought that says too fine a sandpaper clogs the pores of the wood and makes it harder for the finish to soak in. Feathering with the 320 is faster and you will not see any sand marks from this grit.

4) wet sand the wood with steel wool on your final pass. Dampening the wood will raise the little fibers (whiskers). Then as you go over the wood with the wool, you will really get a super smooth surface.

5) Finish wise, I am a Danish or Tung oil kind of guy. 16 coats of these oils. Dry and buffed with an old nylon between coats will give you a finish so deep it will look like you can stick you hand right into it. Top that with a couple of coats of a good exterior wood wax and your golden.

Good luck!

PS. As far as taking a long time, craftsmaship can not and should not be rushed.

Dfariswheel · August 19, 2001, 08:53 PM

Well Thibault, you've certainly learned your lesson. Unfortunately this will make no difference, since in a short time you will start to get these urges again, and in spite of prior experience, you'll find yourself fondling sandpaper, and ogling a picture of a nicely finished stock. (One someone ELSE, did).
I'm sorry, but you've got the gunbug and there's no cure. You'll just have to suffer along with the rest of us.

(Where in HELL did I leave that wood rasp)?

Alex Johnson · August 20, 2001, 03:47 PM

The best finish I have come across of is Pilkington's gunstock finish. This finish fills up the grain and puts the finish in the wood and not ontop of it. Follow the instructions that come with the bottle and you will have one of the best looking finishes that you can find.

Charmedlyfe · August 20, 2001, 05:24 PM

Whoa, Joe!!!! A rasp is quite useful when roughing out a bolt channel. Also quite helpful when roughing out the shape from a blank. Dem do have yooses.....

Joe Portale · August 20, 2001, 06:00 PM

Charmedlyfe,

Yep, you are right. Maybe the fact that I was talking finished surface should have been pointed out.

Thibault · August 21, 2001, 07:15 AM

As always, I am flabbergasted by the collective knowledge of TFL.
I really should have asked a few questions before getting started on this... would have saved me quite a lot of time and effort, I guess...

Well, since I am at a rather advanced stage in this project, I do not have much leeway... but the whole thing is actually turning out pretty good.

This rifle is primarily my moose/bear hunting rifle, so the light-colored birch has to be stained a much darker shade. In its present state, the color of it in the bush sticks out like a pimple on a forehead... The finish will have to be somewhat dull and water-resistant, so I have been considering a dark walnut stain and several coats of marine-grade varnish.

The cheapo plastic buttplate went, along with 3/8" of buttstock and have been replaced with a Pachmayr Decelerator pad (call me a wuss if you want, but it's much more comfy!).

I am now targeting a Sept 10th completion date, so I could put a few boxes of ammo through it in time for Mr Moose. Hopefully I'll be done in time.

I'll post pics as soon as I can.

Thanks to all!

Harley Nolden · August 21, 2001, 09:10 AM

Thinbault:
If you use Birchwood Casey water stain, this would be a good time to feather. I'm not to fond of Marine Varnish, I would prefer linsead oil or a deep penitrating finish. This would give you the lustrlus finish I think you are looking for.

HJN

Ledbetter · August 21, 2001, 12:04 PM

I did a 10/22 stock with it. It is very slow drying, hard to work with and every little dust mote floating in the air will stick to it and make a flaw in the finish. Never again for me.

Regards.

**4V50 Gary** · August 21, 2001, 02:43 PM

Stains & oil finishes wreak havoc on sandpaper. Don't work so hard. Go to Lowe's or Home Depot and buy a couple of cabinet scrapers and scrape away the old finish. After the surface has been removed, then hit it with sandpaper.

I learned the hardway too.

Joe Portale · August 21, 2001, 05:21 PM

Your right on 4V50 Gary. "Varnished" surfaces can be simply scaped away. Oil finishes can be washed off with denatured alcohol, acetone, and or paint thinner.

When feathering or applying stain, dip a piece of CLEAN 000000 steel wool or better yet an extra fine scotch bright pad in the stain. Work the stain into the pores of the wood using the wool or pad. This will accomplish two things, one it will rub the finish into the wood and second it will give a final polish buffing to the wood. Like I said, I am an oil finish kinda guy, no spar varinish or urethane for my wood stuff. 15 to 20 hand rubbed coats tung oil worked into a nicely striped chunck of wood, it's pretty enough to bring a tear to your eye.

Lavan · August 21, 2001, 06:55 PM

I have finished stocks using linseed oil. But only on walnut. I have gotten mirror finishes but it is work.
My Ruger 10-22 is a 5 digit one from when they used walnut and it had some nice figure. However it seems soft. Grooves...not scratches....seem to show up. But I aint doin it again.

The new Gun Digest has a plausible article about using egg white to harden the wood. Supposedly albumin hardens wood.

Interesting but my finishing days are over...til next time.

August 19, 2001, 10:28 AM	#1
Thibault Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Location: Middle of nowhere, Northern Quebec Posts: 336	My advice for wannabe stock refinishers For some time now, I have been working on my 30-06's stock. It has been a learning process all the way, and I'm not even done with it yet. I really would like to share a bit of what I learned through this, if it could help someone out there... I started with a mauser-action hardware-store-type Parker-Hale Midland 2600 in 30-06 that the two previous owners have taken very little care of. The finish, a cheapo walnut-colored stain, was in very bad shape, and the stock was rather scratched and dinged. This was a first-time experience, with very basic hand tools (carving knife, a couple of rasps and lots of sandpaper), a little experience in woodworking and nothing to lose since I didn't like that rifle anyway. - Removing the original finish is rather easy, with a good quality remover and medium steel wool. Ironing out the dings and sanding out the scratches makes the stock go a long way. If you're happy with that, then all is just fine. But, Once the finish is gone, if you think that the stock would look better with a (insert favorite detail here), then you're into trouble! - Sand, sand, sand, and then sand some more... - There are no such thing as a good looking hand-carved schnabel fore-end. Period. - When you go out to buy sandpaper, get three times the sandpaper you think you'll need, so you'll only run short twice. - Steel wool will smooth out anything to a silk-like finish, except for the rasp marks that will keep showing no matter what. - If you have young children that have limited access to the basement, put a picture of yourself on the fridge, cause they won't see you in a loooong time. - If midway through the project, you start thinking about the value of the time you spent, you find out you could have had a MacMillan by now. - No matter how much time you spend shaping and sanding, you'll never be happy with the end result. Denial will catapult you in a never-ending project on an ever-shrinking stock. - Trying to shape anything with 400 grit is pointless. - Always wear eye protection while working. You may be tempted to gouge your eyes out with a screwdriver out of despair. - If you start in May thinking you'll be done in time for (insert favorite big game season), think again. I hope you have a spare rifle. - No matter how hard you try, it's never going to look like the 30k-plus 50's custom mausers you admire so much. If you ever finish, please post pictures! Just my 0.02...

August 19, 2001, 07:30 PM	#6
Joe Portale Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory Posts: 715	Thibault, There is no greater teacher than experience. I have refinished a number of stocks for myself anf friends. These ranged from a simple color change to attemping to refurbish a Turk Mauser wood that looked like it was used by a gorilla as a play thing. Let me pass on some of my experiences: 1) Throw out your rasp! No self respecting cabinet maker uses them. Refinishing a stock is closer to fine cabinet work than carving. The removal of the offending cheek piece could of been done using a small bloack plane with a heck of alot less drag cut marks. Just meaure the teeth on a rasp, some of the real course ones have teeth ober 1/8 inch long! You will be sanding until hell freezes over. 2) The use of course grit sand paper is also a no-no. If you need to remove a good deal of surface, use a cabinet scaper. These are not that expensive, come in various contours and remove more material than sand paper in a pass. A highly experineced cabionet maker can use a scaper that will leave a finish smooth as glass. My grand father never used sandpaper on cabinets, only a scaper. 3) Do not use sandpaper beyond 320. 400, 600 and the rest only polish the wood. There is a school of thought that says too fine a sandpaper clogs the pores of the wood and makes it harder for the finish to soak in. Feathering with the 320 is faster and you will not see any sand marks from this grit. 4) wet sand the wood with steel wool on your final pass. Dampening the wood will raise the little fibers (whiskers). Then as you go over the wood with the wool, you will really get a super smooth surface. 5) Finish wise, I am a Danish or Tung oil kind of guy. 16 coats of these oils. Dry and buffed with an old nylon between coats will give you a finish so deep it will look like you can stick you hand right into it. Top that with a couple of coats of a good exterior wood wax and your golden. Good luck! PS. As far as taking a long time, craftsmaship can not and should not be rushed. __________________ Joe Portale Tucson, Arizona Territory "Even now in heaven there are angles carrying savage weapons". - St Paul

August 20, 2001, 03:47 PM	#8
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	The best finish I have come across of is Pilkington's gunstock finish. This finish fills up the grain and puts the finish in the wood and not ontop of it. Follow the instructions that come with the bottle and you will have one of the best looking finishes that you can find. __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

August 20, 2001, 06:00 PM	#10
Joe Portale Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory Posts: 715	Charmedlyfe, Yep, you are right. Maybe the fact that I was talking finished surface should have been pointed out. __________________ Joe Portale Tucson, Arizona Territory "Even now in heaven there are angles carrying savage weapons". - St Paul

August 21, 2001, 12:04 PM	#13
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Beware of Marine Varnish I did a 10/22 stock with it. It is very slow drying, hard to work with and every little dust mote floating in the air will stick to it and make a flaw in the finish. Never again for me. Regards.

August 19, 2001, 11:35 AM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Thibault: I heard about rasp marks, and a lot of sanding. Removing the dents, (ironing) is correct. I wonder why a rasp would have to be used in the refinishing of a stock. That is unless there were really some deep dings? If so, it would seem that the project would have been better to start with a new semi-inletted stock You did not mention if the stock was beechwood, walnut, birch or what ever, and each one will be treated somewhat differently. You did not mention anything about "feathering" the wood. (Getting the stock wet letting it dry) to raise the "nap" removing the "feathers", then using a filling method and then finishng with a good gun stock finish. I guess I should say, if I saw the stock, I probably would do it differently. HJN

August 19, 2001, 12:37 PM	#3
Thibault Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Location: Middle of nowhere, Northern Quebec Posts: 336	Well, what started off as a refinishing job too soon turned out as an all-out reshaping of the damn thing... -Checkering was really poor so off it went... -Fore-end was uncomfortable for my rather small hands, plus it had a poor unesthetical (?) shape, so I rounded it off, tapering from the action in a semi-Obendorf-kinda shape... -Since I am southpaw and the rifle is not, the useless cheekpiece went, adding a lot of drop to the stock so my eye is right on the sights upon shouldering. -I opened the grip quite a bit, it is much more comfortable now. I am not yet at the feathering part, but I should get started as soon as I consider anything else I could do as potential overkill. The stock is birch, grain is fairly straight with little figure. You are perfectly right. Going the inletted stock would have been cheaper and much easier, but the point of this exercise was to find out if I could do it, basically just for the hell of it. And yes, if it would be to start all over again, I would do it much differently. The purpose of the whole thing was basically a learning process and a hobby. So far, it works. I still have to 600 grit, feather, 600 grit again, stain and varnish the thing before putting it all back together. Moose season starts in 4 weeks, I guess I'll have to take my Enfield. But you are absolutely right, Harley. I basically did it because it was a gun I didn't like and did not really care for.

August 19, 2001, 03:19 PM	#4
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Thinbault: As a suggestion. You indicate using 600 grit sand paper to feather, remove and then feather again. If you continue this process you will never get it feathered. Feathering can be accomplished several ways. 1. with 0000 steelwool. Just pull it over the feathers. 2. With a small torch, cig lighter or some small flame. Yes! this leaves some small pores or openings. Using linseed oil and removing down to the wood will eventually fill them and make it look pretty good. Personnaly I don't like birch wood for a gun stock. I prefer something with a little more mineral stripe. ie: Claro walnut, semi-fancy to fancy Black walnut, or something like that. I would do it on the Parker Hale too. Why make it look worse just because you don't like it. You can get a stock for right hand action, left hand shooter from Richards. Pretty good stocks too. If that is the real case, make it look really nice then sell it. You won't get the price if it looks like doo doo. wish I wasn't out of the business, I'd buy it and use it. HJN

August 19, 2001, 04:33 PM	#5
Thibault Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Location: Middle of nowhere, Northern Quebec Posts: 336	Well, even in its current unfinished state, I have to admit it looks pretty good (to my loving eye, anyway). Thanks for the feathering info, I shall go the steel wool way. And no, I do not intend to sell it, because the "new" stock configuration does make it much more comfortable and I am growing to like it. Perhaps I will eventually post pictures, it's not half as ugly as I made it sound like... Thanks for the advice!

August 19, 2001, 08:53 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Well Thibault, you've certainly learned your lesson. Unfortunately this will make no difference, since in a short time you will start to get these urges again, and in spite of prior experience, you'll find yourself fondling sandpaper, and ogling a picture of a nicely finished stock. (One someone ELSE, did). I'm sorry, but you've got the gunbug and there's no cure. You'll just have to suffer along with the rest of us. (Where in HELL did I leave that wood rasp)?

August 20, 2001, 05:24 PM	#9
Charmedlyfe Junior member Join Date: October 11, 2000 Location: SC Posts: 799	Whoa, Joe!!!! A rasp is quite useful when roughing out a bolt channel. Also quite helpful when roughing out the shape from a blank. Dem do have yooses.....

August 21, 2001, 07:15 AM	#11
Thibault Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Location: Middle of nowhere, Northern Quebec Posts: 336	As always, I am flabbergasted by the collective knowledge of TFL. I really should have asked a few questions before getting started on this... would have saved me quite a lot of time and effort, I guess... Well, since I am at a rather advanced stage in this project, I do not have much leeway... but the whole thing is actually turning out pretty good. This rifle is primarily my moose/bear hunting rifle, so the light-colored birch has to be stained a much darker shade. In its present state, the color of it in the bush sticks out like a pimple on a forehead... The finish will have to be somewhat dull and water-resistant, so I have been considering a dark walnut stain and several coats of marine-grade varnish. The cheapo plastic buttplate went, along with 3/8" of buttstock and have been replaced with a Pachmayr Decelerator pad (call me a wuss if you want, but it's much more comfy!). I am now targeting a Sept 10th completion date, so I could put a few boxes of ammo through it in time for Mr Moose. Hopefully I'll be done in time. I'll post pics as soon as I can. Thanks to all!

August 21, 2001, 09:10 AM	#12
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Thinbault: If you use Birchwood Casey water stain, this would be a good time to feather. I'm not to fond of Marine Varnish, I would prefer linsead oil or a deep penitrating finish. This would give you the lustrlus finish I think you are looking for. HJN

August 21, 2001, 02:43 PM	#14
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	Stains & oil finishes wreak havoc on sandpaper. Don't work so hard. Go to Lowe's or Home Depot and buy a couple of cabinet scrapers and scrape away the old finish. After the surface has been removed, then hit it with sandpaper. I learned the hardway too. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 21, 2001, 05:21 PM	#15
Joe Portale Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory Posts: 715	Your right on 4V50 Gary. "Varnished" surfaces can be simply scaped away. Oil finishes can be washed off with denatured alcohol, acetone, and or paint thinner. When feathering or applying stain, dip a piece of CLEAN 000000 steel wool or better yet an extra fine scotch bright pad in the stain. Work the stain into the pores of the wood using the wool or pad. This will accomplish two things, one it will rub the finish into the wood and second it will give a final polish buffing to the wood. Like I said, I am an oil finish kinda guy, no spar varinish or urethane for my wood stuff. 15 to 20 hand rubbed coats tung oil worked into a nicely striped chunck of wood, it's pretty enough to bring a tear to your eye. __________________ Joe Portale Tucson, Arizona Territory "Even now in heaven there are angles carrying savage weapons". - St Paul

August 21, 2001, 06:55 PM	#16
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	I have finished stocks using linseed oil. But only on walnut. I have gotten mirror finishes but it is work. My Ruger 10-22 is a 5 digit one from when they used walnut and it had some nice figure. However it seems soft. Grooves...not scratches....seem to show up. But I aint doin it again. The new Gun Digest has a plausible article about using egg white to harden the wood. Supposedly albumin hardens wood. Interesting but my finishing days are over...til next time.