Why are my cases hanging in my new Lee carbide sizing die???

ferrarif1fan · February 5, 2010, 01:12 AM

Just set up my new Lee Pro 1000 tonight and have been fiddling with it to get everything set up correctly to load 115 gr. 9mm rounds. Before putting on the powder measure assembly and primer dispenser, I put a couple of empty cases in just to let them go through the stations and familiarize myself with the press. No problem. Station one sized and deprimed, station two expanded the case, and station three really didn't do anything since I didn't have a bullet on the case. So after I put everything together to try to prime and fill the first couple of rounds, the cases kept hanging in the sizing/depriming die. I had to unscrew the die with the case still held in the shell plate carrier just to get them apart. I tried it with some rounds that I'd cleaned with some polishing compound and some others that I'd cleaned in a water/vinegar solution that were rinsed then dried. I'm pretty certain the cases were clean and dry. I'd appreciate any suggestions as to what's going on here because I've got the powder drop and bullet seat/crimp set up properly. If it weren't for the cases hanging at the sizing die, I'd be making the first few test rounds right now.

TIA!

Robert

FrankenMauser · February 5, 2010, 02:02 AM

Is the die polished inside?

I've seen quite a few Lee dies that still had tooling marks inside.

draggon · February 5, 2010, 06:49 AM

I think your cases are too clean.

Despite the hype about carbide requiring no lubrication that is only relative to steel dies. They do need a trace of lubrication and even firing residue is enough to ease the cases into the die.

Lee does go into this in his book but not in his instructions that come with the die sets.

For what it's worth there is definitely a difference between the die brands. I bought most of them because I was having the same trouble as you.

Lee is clearly the "worst" as defined as requiring the most force or the most lube. Redding is the "best" and Lyman, RCBS and Hornady are about the same.

All of them make good ammunition if you take this sort of stuff into consideration.

steve4102 · February 5, 2010, 07:29 AM

Did you dismantle the die and clean it real good with a good solvent or degreaser? Lee dies come with all sorts of unwanted gunk and crap that needs to be thoroughly removed before use.

ferrarif1fan · February 5, 2010, 07:35 AM

I'm assuming if I loosen up the smaller bolt at the top of the die, I can remove the post that pushes the primer out. I'll clean it tonight after work. In the event that doesn't do the trick, is there some household lubricant I could use to test the theory that I'll need to lube the cases? Since I bought the carbide dies specifically so I didn't have to lube, I didn't buy any case lube. I've got lots of different weight oils around if that might work just to test.

Thanks!

Robert

PCJim · February 5, 2010, 10:10 AM

Since you didn't have any problem when initially setting up the dies one at a time to learn the press, you may want to readjust your dies while having a case at each station, as would be the situation when you are in full operation. Sometimes this will make a difference. I have also read that Lee dies are supposed to be somewhat "self-aligning" when they are finger tightened as opposed to being man-handled with a wrench, something to do with the "O" ring they use for maintaining the die's adjustments instead of a locking ring.

Hammonje · February 5, 2010, 11:18 AM

Just run a few lubed case through every 30-40 cases. I do this for 30 carbine. I don't use carbide dies for any other rifles. I lube bottleneck cases.

Chaz88 · February 5, 2010, 12:09 PM

I have a lee carbide die for .357. It works better if I lube one about every 20 or so. Or if your cleaning media is the kind with polishing rouge in it that seams to leave enough lube on the case, most of the time.

chiefr · February 5, 2010, 01:47 PM

I too, have had problems with cases sticking in Lee dies. Interestingly only a few calibers. My 45 ACP carbide dies bind sometimes with or without lube. Recently had problems with 30-06. Yes, they have the built in stuck case remover, but the decapping stem is made with soft metal and mushrooms or bends when you beat the stuck case out. They cost $3. Bought my share of replacements for several calibers. Don't take this as I am bashing Lee, just stating my experiences. All my bullet casting moulds are Lee and I love the collet NSO dies. The majority of my dies are RCBS.

wingman · February 5, 2010, 02:22 PM

Clean the die good and use a dry lube for a few cases in time it will work
better but I normally clean my dies after a few hundreds rounds and when new.

wncchester · February 5, 2010, 04:44 PM

First, I kinda wonder what you're callin' "hung up" cases. I 'spect if you pull a tad harder on the lever they would come un-stuck very well. But, a tad of lube IS helpful, even with carbide sizers, just to prevent galling, and I can't imagine how a case could be too clean to resize.

Most paste waxes are great case lubes, floor or shoe waxes do very well. I prefer a shoe wax with no die, Kiwi Neutral is good. Just tap your finger tips in the wax and transfer it in a very thin layer to the cases as you pick them up for sizing.

I've seen a lot of dies in more than 40 years of doing this, Lee's seem as good as any. Especially so for their carbide dies. ??

ferrarif1fan · February 5, 2010, 05:06 PM

I don't know the correct terminology for all of the parts of the press, but on the downstroke, the ram is actually coming loose from the part that has the shell carrier. It appears to me that it's simply a press fit between those two parts. There didn't appear to be any pin or crossbolt holding the two parts together. In my case, when I pulled the lever down to move the carrier up into the dies, everything was fine. When I pulled the lever back up to lower the carrier, the carrier detached from the ram and the ram continued down to the lower resting position. The only way to get the carrier attached to the ram was to unscrew the resize/deprime die, which finally released the case, then move the carrier back down onto the ram. So in my case, I simply wasn't able to exert more force to pull the case out of the die. Wish I would have been able to.

45Colt_Man · February 5, 2010, 05:20 PM

Are the hanging cases the same ones you previously ran through the expander die? In other words are they stilled belled for the bullet to be seated? Only reason I can see for them hanging up.

Dana

NCMountain · February 5, 2010, 05:35 PM

Periodically clean out the powder charging die and case expander. I use Q-tips to get the crude out and some Kano on the tip. Then I let it sit for several minutes to soak in. I then clean it out to rid the Kano and then use my air compressor to blow out any residual that remains.

Everyone has a method for sure but they do need cleaning every so often even though they are carbide dies.

Good luck!

ferrarif1fan · February 5, 2010, 08:50 PM

I thought that the ram to carrier connection was just a friction fit. But upon closer inspection, I found that there was an allen headed screw that tightened the carrier body around the ram. I snugged it up, lubed a couple of cases with a light coat of Minwax paste wax, and everything started working great again.

I've only been messing the with press for a few hours now, so my learning curve has been steep. I've now got all of the dies adjusted where I want them. I also found that the Lee chart that comes with their auto powder measure was off a bit for Accurate #2. I had to go up one size to get the correct load.

So now, I've loaded 9 rounds with 4.4 grains of Accurate #2 (verified on a scale) with Winchester 115 grain FMJ RN bullets and OAL of 1.120. I'm going to the range tomorrow to test the rounds.

One thing that does bother me however is the range of the load data I've found for #2 with 115 FMJ. I even asked for data on another post on this forum (see here). On that post, I was given:

Hornady data: 115 gr FMJ RN 4.3-5.1 gr "1.100
Lee data: 115 gr FMJ RN 4.0-4.4 gr "1.100

The data supplied from Lee with my dies has no data for 115 FMJ, just for 115 gr lead, which is: 115 lead 4.4-4.9 gr "1.100

So I'm okay with the OAL I'm seeing, but the range of powder loads is kind of suprising. Any comments on the range I'm seeing???

Thanks for all the help. I think I'm on the way to successful reloading as long as I don't run into any overpressure problems.

Robert

February 5, 2010, 01:12 AM	#1
ferrarif1fan Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2009 Posts: 118	Why are my cases hanging in my new Lee carbide sizing die??? Just set up my new Lee Pro 1000 tonight and have been fiddling with it to get everything set up correctly to load 115 gr. 9mm rounds. Before putting on the powder measure assembly and primer dispenser, I put a couple of empty cases in just to let them go through the stations and familiarize myself with the press. No problem. Station one sized and deprimed, station two expanded the case, and station three really didn't do anything since I didn't have a bullet on the case. So after I put everything together to try to prime and fill the first couple of rounds, the cases kept hanging in the sizing/depriming die. I had to unscrew the die with the case still held in the shell plate carrier just to get them apart. I tried it with some rounds that I'd cleaned with some polishing compound and some others that I'd cleaned in a water/vinegar solution that were rinsed then dried. I'm pretty certain the cases were clean and dry. I'd appreciate any suggestions as to what's going on here because I've got the powder drop and bullet seat/crimp set up properly. If it weren't for the cases hanging at the sizing die, I'd be making the first few test rounds right now. TIA! Robert

February 5, 2010, 07:35 AM	#5
ferrarif1fan Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2009 Posts: 118	no, I didn't clean it I'm assuming if I loosen up the smaller bolt at the top of the die, I can remove the post that pushes the primer out. I'll clean it tonight after work. In the event that doesn't do the trick, is there some household lubricant I could use to test the theory that I'll need to lube the cases? Since I bought the carbide dies specifically so I didn't have to lube, I didn't buy any case lube. I've got lots of different weight oils around if that might work just to test. Thanks! Robert

February 5, 2010, 12:09 PM	#8
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	I have a lee carbide die for .357. It works better if I lube one about every 20 or so. Or if your cleaning media is the kind with polishing rouge in it that seams to leave enough lube on the case, most of the time. __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.

February 5, 2010, 04:44 PM	#11
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	First, I kinda wonder what you're callin' "hung up" cases. I 'spect if you pull a tad harder on the lever they would come un-stuck very well. But, a tad of lube IS helpful, even with carbide sizers, just to prevent galling, and I can't imagine how a case could be too clean to resize. Most paste waxes are great case lubes, floor or shoe waxes do very well. I prefer a shoe wax with no die, Kiwi Neutral is good. Just tap your finger tips in the wax and transfer it in a very thin layer to the cases as you pick them up for sizing. I've seen a lot of dies in more than 40 years of doing this, Lee's seem as good as any. Especially so for their carbide dies. ?? Last edited by wncchester; February 5, 2010 at 04:55 PM.

February 5, 2010, 05:06 PM	#12
ferrarif1fan Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2009 Posts: 118	Actually, the carrier came loose from the ram. I don't know the correct terminology for all of the parts of the press, but on the downstroke, the ram is actually coming loose from the part that has the shell carrier. It appears to me that it's simply a press fit between those two parts. There didn't appear to be any pin or crossbolt holding the two parts together. In my case, when I pulled the lever down to move the carrier up into the dies, everything was fine. When I pulled the lever back up to lower the carrier, the carrier detached from the ram and the ram continued down to the lower resting position. The only way to get the carrier attached to the ram was to unscrew the resize/deprime die, which finally released the case, then move the carrier back down onto the ram. So in my case, I simply wasn't able to exert more force to pull the case out of the die. Wish I would have been able to.

February 5, 2010, 02:02 AM	#2
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Is the die polished inside? I've seen quite a few Lee dies that still had tooling marks inside. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

February 5, 2010, 06:49 AM	#3
draggon Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Posts: 96	I think your cases are too clean. Despite the hype about carbide requiring no lubrication that is only relative to steel dies. They do need a trace of lubrication and even firing residue is enough to ease the cases into the die. Lee does go into this in his book but not in his instructions that come with the die sets. For what it's worth there is definitely a difference between the die brands. I bought most of them because I was having the same trouble as you. Lee is clearly the "worst" as defined as requiring the most force or the most lube. Redding is the "best" and Lyman, RCBS and Hornady are about the same. All of them make good ammunition if you take this sort of stuff into consideration.

February 5, 2010, 07:29 AM	#4
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	Did you dismantle the die and clean it real good with a good solvent or degreaser? Lee dies come with all sorts of unwanted gunk and crap that needs to be thoroughly removed before use.

February 5, 2010, 10:10 AM	#6
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Since you didn't have any problem when initially setting up the dies one at a time to learn the press, you may want to readjust your dies while having a case at each station, as would be the situation when you are in full operation. Sometimes this will make a difference. I have also read that Lee dies are supposed to be somewhat "self-aligning" when they are finger tightened as opposed to being man-handled with a wrench, something to do with the "O" ring they use for maintaining the die's adjustments instead of a locking ring.

February 5, 2010, 11:18 AM	#7
Hammonje Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2010 Location: Lilburn, GA Posts: 117	Just run a few lubed case through every 30-40 cases. I do this for 30 carbine. I don't use carbide dies for any other rifles. I lube bottleneck cases.

February 5, 2010, 01:47 PM	#9
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I too, have had problems with cases sticking in Lee dies. Interestingly only a few calibers. My 45 ACP carbide dies bind sometimes with or without lube. Recently had problems with 30-06. Yes, they have the built in stuck case remover, but the decapping stem is made with soft metal and mushrooms or bends when you beat the stuck case out. They cost $3. Bought my share of replacements for several calibers. Don't take this as I am bashing Lee, just stating my experiences. All my bullet casting moulds are Lee and I love the collet NSO dies. The majority of my dies are RCBS.

February 5, 2010, 02:22 PM	#10
wingman Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2002 Posts: 2,108	Clean the die good and use a dry lube for a few cases in time it will work better but I normally clean my dies after a few hundreds rounds and when new.

February 5, 2010, 05:20 PM	#13
45Colt_Man Member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Posts: 59	Are the hanging cases the same ones you previously ran through the expander die? In other words are they stilled belled for the bullet to be seated? Only reason I can see for them hanging up. Dana

February 5, 2010, 05:35 PM	#14
NCMountain Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2009 Location: western, NC Posts: 121	Periodically clean out the powder charging die and case expander. I use Q-tips to get the crude out and some Kano on the tip. Then I let it sit for several minutes to soak in. I then clean it out to rid the Kano and then use my air compressor to blow out any residual that remains. Everyone has a method for sure but they do need cleaning every so often even though they are carbide dies. Good luck! __________________ Ruger GP100 4" SS; Ruger LCP; http://ncmountaingunner.blogspot.com/

February 5, 2010, 08:50 PM	#15
ferrarif1fan Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2009 Posts: 118	finally figured it out! I thought that the ram to carrier connection was just a friction fit. But upon closer inspection, I found that there was an allen headed screw that tightened the carrier body around the ram. I snugged it up, lubed a couple of cases with a light coat of Minwax paste wax, and everything started working great again. I've only been messing the with press for a few hours now, so my learning curve has been steep. I've now got all of the dies adjusted where I want them. I also found that the Lee chart that comes with their auto powder measure was off a bit for Accurate #2. I had to go up one size to get the correct load. So now, I've loaded 9 rounds with 4.4 grains of Accurate #2 (verified on a scale) with Winchester 115 grain FMJ RN bullets and OAL of 1.120. I'm going to the range tomorrow to test the rounds. One thing that does bother me however is the range of the load data I've found for #2 with 115 FMJ. I even asked for data on another post on this forum (see here). On that post, I was given: Hornady data: 115 gr FMJ RN 4.3-5.1 gr "1.100 Lee data: 115 gr FMJ RN 4.0-4.4 gr "1.100 The data supplied from Lee with my dies has no data for 115 FMJ, just for 115 gr lead, which is: 115 lead 4.4-4.9 gr "1.100 So I'm okay with the OAL I'm seeing, but the range of powder loads is kind of suprising. Any comments on the range I'm seeing??? Thanks for all the help. I think I'm on the way to successful reloading as long as I don't run into any overpressure problems. Robert