sizing die question

Joe Portale · June 2, 2001, 03:02 PM

I just tried to make some .223 rounds for a AR15. The loaded rounds are jamming into the chamber and the only way to get them out is to slam the charging bar against the edge of a table. I discovered this while rifle seating a bullet for depth. This is my standard practice when working with a new load/bullet combination. I loosely seat the bullet and chamber the round. The round is then read and turned in a couple thousanths more. This way the gun tells me where to seat the bullet. This works great on my Garand, bolt and lever guns. Never tried this on the AR. For the past few years I have been buying my 223 by the case and never thought about reloading until recently.

After all that, here is what I have come up with. I use Lee dies. They work fine in all my other rifles and handguns. But when I mic'd the 223 brass, it comes in at .0035 over what the factory ammo mic's at. If my memory serves me correctly, Lee dies are spec'd to the SAAMI maximum.

Which die manufacturer spec's their dies to SAMMI minimum or average? The chamber in the rifle is okay, it is a DCM competition hbar, so it is safe to assume the chamber will be tight. For the record, rifle eats factory ammo with no problem.

Thanks. (sorry for the long winded post to get to the simple question)

Joe

ARshooter · June 2, 2001, 04:08 PM

From what you have written I would first measure the neck diameter and along several points on the body and compare those to the specs in a good reloading manual. You also might want to check the brass length (might need trimming).
A case gage would come in handy also (very good investment, doesn't cost much). That would tell you immediately where the problem is.

kurt IA. · June 2, 2001, 04:49 PM

You say loaded rounds. Were these cases fired in your AR then resized? If so check the shoulder for a buldge, ever so slight. If you find one, back the die out so you only size 3/4 of the neck, and not touch the shoulder. Also check a once fired case from your AR, aginst a resized one. The once fired should go right in your rifle, and the resized should be some smaler, though not as small as a factory new. If none of this helps some MAF,s. make small base dies, for auto, that size closer to Factory new.

Joe Portale · June 2, 2001, 05:15 PM

Thanks for the responses guys. I have eliminated the case mouth and shoulder as the culprit. The problem lies in the larger diameter of the sized case. The cases were checked at several points between a new unfired factory cartridge and a sized one. Like I stated earlier, the resized case is larger than the factory or unsized once fired. The problem is in the die. Before I run out and start buying different dies, I wanted to know if any size to SAAMI minimum, unlike the Lee that sizes to SAAMI max.

Joe

swifter... · June 2, 2001, 06:09 PM

Try a "small-base" die, or switch to Redding, I think their dies are fairly tight.

Quantrill · June 3, 2001, 08:01 AM

Joe,
I had the same problem with .308s and small base dies by RCBS solved it. Quantrill

Peter M. Eick · June 3, 2001, 11:20 AM

My M1A Super Match and National Match both require rcbs small base dies for 100% reliablity. If I use conventional rcbs dies, about 1 rnd out of a 20 rnd mag will not close the bolt all the way without a gentle push. Get some small base dies and be done with the problem.

WalterGAII · June 3, 2001, 01:37 PM

Try the RCBS small base dies.

dick w. holliday · June 3, 2001, 01:55 PM

Before i ordered more dies i'd give the lee's another chance...Screw the die down a little more and a little more until they work..most rifle dies i've ever messed with will require the ram to sort of pop at the bottom of the stroke to get a good full length size...i've had bunches of ARs over the years that were made by every manufacutruer you've ever heard of and i've never had to go to a small base die for any of them for a reload....i never will forget the first 308's i ever loaded and not a damn one could be chambered in my bolt gun--called RCBS and they gave me the same advice i'm giving you--and have never had another minutes problem--the advice about the case gauge is good advice--if i'm loading 223 which may be shot in one of 5 or 6 different guns--i just size down until they'll drop flush in the case gauge and they'll always work no matter which gun i shoot them in.....Give the Lee another chance....Dick

June 2, 2001, 03:02 PM	#1
Joe Portale Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory Posts: 715	I just tried to make some .223 rounds for a AR15. The loaded rounds are jamming into the chamber and the only way to get them out is to slam the charging bar against the edge of a table. I discovered this while rifle seating a bullet for depth. This is my standard practice when working with a new load/bullet combination. I loosely seat the bullet and chamber the round. The round is then read and turned in a couple thousanths more. This way the gun tells me where to seat the bullet. This works great on my Garand, bolt and lever guns. Never tried this on the AR. For the past few years I have been buying my 223 by the case and never thought about reloading until recently. After all that, here is what I have come up with. I use Lee dies. They work fine in all my other rifles and handguns. But when I mic'd the 223 brass, it comes in at .0035 over what the factory ammo mic's at. If my memory serves me correctly, Lee dies are spec'd to the SAAMI maximum. Which die manufacturer spec's their dies to SAMMI minimum or average? The chamber in the rifle is okay, it is a DCM competition hbar, so it is safe to assume the chamber will be tight. For the record, rifle eats factory ammo with no problem. Thanks. (sorry for the long winded post to get to the simple question) Joe __________________ Joe Portale Tucson, Arizona Territory "Even now in heaven there are angles carrying savage weapons". - St Paul

June 2, 2001, 05:15 PM	#4
Joe Portale Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 1999 Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory Posts: 715	Thanks for the responses guys. I have eliminated the case mouth and shoulder as the culprit. The problem lies in the larger diameter of the sized case. The cases were checked at several points between a new unfired factory cartridge and a sized one. Like I stated earlier, the resized case is larger than the factory or unsized once fired. The problem is in the die. Before I run out and start buying different dies, I wanted to know if any size to SAAMI minimum, unlike the Lee that sizes to SAAMI max. Joe __________________ Joe Portale Tucson, Arizona Territory "Even now in heaven there are angles carrying savage weapons". - St Paul

June 2, 2001, 06:09 PM	#5
swifter... Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: So. CA Mountains Posts: 540	Try a "small-base" die, or switch to Redding, I think their dies are fairly tight. __________________ There are damn few situations so screwed up that adding government to them will not make 'em worse... The best homeland security is an armed & informed citizenery! Molon Labe!

June 3, 2001, 11:20 AM	#7
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	My M1A Super Match and National Match both require rcbs small base dies for 100% reliablity. If I use conventional rcbs dies, about 1 rnd out of a 20 rnd mag will not close the bolt all the way without a gentle push. Get some small base dies and be done with the problem. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

June 2, 2001, 04:08 PM	#2
ARshooter Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 1999 Posts: 142	From what you have written I would first measure the neck diameter and along several points on the body and compare those to the specs in a good reloading manual. You also might want to check the brass length (might need trimming). A case gage would come in handy also (very good investment, doesn't cost much). That would tell you immediately where the problem is.

June 2, 2001, 04:49 PM	#3
kurt IA. Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 141	You say loaded rounds. Were these cases fired in your AR then resized? If so check the shoulder for a buldge, ever so slight. If you find one, back the die out so you only size 3/4 of the neck, and not touch the shoulder. Also check a once fired case from your AR, aginst a resized one. The once fired should go right in your rifle, and the resized should be some smaler, though not as small as a factory new. If none of this helps some MAF,s. make small base dies, for auto, that size closer to Factory new.

June 3, 2001, 08:01 AM	#6
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Joe, I had the same problem with .308s and small base dies by RCBS solved it. Quantrill

June 3, 2001, 01:37 PM	#8
WalterGAII Junior member Join Date: November 7, 1999 Posts: 1,516	Try the RCBS small base dies.

June 3, 2001, 01:55 PM	#9
dick w. holliday Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2001 Location: NC Posts: 589	Before i ordered more dies i'd give the lee's another chance...Screw the die down a little more and a little more until they work..most rifle dies i've ever messed with will require the ram to sort of pop at the bottom of the stroke to get a good full length size...i've had bunches of ARs over the years that were made by every manufacutruer you've ever heard of and i've never had to go to a small base die for any of them for a reload....i never will forget the first 308's i ever loaded and not a damn one could be chambered in my bolt gun--called RCBS and they gave me the same advice i'm giving you--and have never had another minutes problem--the advice about the case gauge is good advice--if i'm loading 223 which may be shot in one of 5 or 6 different guns--i just size down until they'll drop flush in the case gauge and they'll always work no matter which gun i shoot them in.....Give the Lee another chance....Dick