Why no fin-stabilized slugs for smoothbores?

Oleg Volk · December 10, 2000, 06:29 PM

Seems like a common design in tank guns...

JWR · December 10, 2000, 07:38 PM

Maybe non-bolt action shotguns can't handle the chamber pressure to really push one to it's full potential (120mm APFSDS MV is 5200+ fps, and a tank has one he11 of a breech), but also the really long, sharp design to help get the velocity wouldn't expand in most game, and many states ban non-expanding ammunition in large-game hunting. If they could get past the chamber pressure (if it even is a problem) an APFSDS 12ga round would be great for defeating body armor at extended range, and should be extremely accurate (I would guess 2 MOA out to 300 yds should be easy). It could make the M16/AR15 obsolete as a LE or homestead defense firearm. Come to think of it, an all-brass shell with a consummable top instead of a crimp would help contain the pressure. Then again, probably nobody would develop and market a new round made specifically to defeat body armor (see what happened to the Black Talon just because it had a black tip). Still, you can get stuff like flechette, bolo (the two balls connected by wire), and even payload slugs you can fill with powder and fuse with a shotshell primer, so I don't see why someone hasn't made one yet, even just for the novelty of it.

point308 · December 11, 2000, 06:05 AM

"and even payload slugs you can fill with powder and fuse with a shotshell primer"

If I put a shotshell primer in the drilled-out nose of a slug, is there any chance of the primer detonating under the acceleration of the slug when in the barrel?

point308

JWR · December 11, 2000, 10:37 AM

I doubt it, but I wouldn't want to drop one on the floor. I look at that kind of stuff like mercury or phosphorous filled hollowpoints: great for someone else to test in their gun far away from me.

Hard Ball · December 11, 2000, 11:26 AM

The 120mm finstabalized projectile used in the US/German 120mm tank guns are exremely accurate, but they are held to close tolerances and using the same technology in shotgun shells would result in some very expensive ammunition.

Shin-Tao · December 11, 2000, 12:55 PM

Their is a fin-stabilized shotgun load for hunting. It has a lead penetrator and the tail is plastic. I can't remember what it is called.

Shawn Dodson · December 11, 2000, 02:50 PM

Go to http://www.sauvestre.com

The Sauvestre slug was designed by the same guy who developed the M1 Abrams fin stabilized saboted projectile.

Tried the 12 gauge 2 3/4" and 3" slugs. Accuracy not anywhere nearly as good as a standard rifled Foster slug when fired from 2 different Vang Comp'd barrels (one ported barrel, one barrel without ports). Recoil of both loads was considerably more punishing than standard Foster slugs.

December 11, 2000, 06:05 AM	#3
point308 Member Join Date: November 1, 1999 Posts: 37	Payload slugs "and even payload slugs you can fill with powder and fuse with a shotshell primer" If I put a shotshell primer in the drilled-out nose of a slug, is there any chance of the primer detonating under the acceleration of the slug when in the barrel? point308

December 11, 2000, 10:37 AM	#4
JWR Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2000 Posts: 180	payload slugs I doubt it, but I wouldn't want to drop one on the floor. I look at that kind of stuff like mercury or phosphorous filled hollowpoints: great for someone else to test in their gun far away from me.

December 10, 2000, 06:29 PM	#1
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	Seems like a common design in tank guns...

December 10, 2000, 07:38 PM	#2
JWR Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2000 Posts: 180	Maybe non-bolt action shotguns can't handle the chamber pressure to really push one to it's full potential (120mm APFSDS MV is 5200+ fps, and a tank has one he11 of a breech), but also the really long, sharp design to help get the velocity wouldn't expand in most game, and many states ban non-expanding ammunition in large-game hunting. If they could get past the chamber pressure (if it even is a problem) an APFSDS 12ga round would be great for defeating body armor at extended range, and should be extremely accurate (I would guess 2 MOA out to 300 yds should be easy). It could make the M16/AR15 obsolete as a LE or homestead defense firearm. Come to think of it, an all-brass shell with a consummable top instead of a crimp would help contain the pressure. Then again, probably nobody would develop and market a new round made specifically to defeat body armor (see what happened to the Black Talon just because it had a black tip). Still, you can get stuff like flechette, bolo (the two balls connected by wire), and even payload slugs you can fill with powder and fuse with a shotshell primer, so I don't see why someone hasn't made one yet, even just for the novelty of it.

December 11, 2000, 11:26 AM	#5
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	The 120mm finstabalized projectile used in the US/German 120mm tank guns are exremely accurate, but they are held to close tolerances and using the same technology in shotgun shells would result in some very expensive ammunition.

December 11, 2000, 12:55 PM	#6
Shin-Tao Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 1,528	Their is a fin-stabilized shotgun load for hunting. It has a lead penetrator and the tail is plastic. I can't remember what it is called.

December 11, 2000, 02:50 PM	#7
Shawn Dodson Junior member Join Date: December 16, 1998 Location: Titusville, FL, USA Posts: 1,030	Go to http://www.sauvestre.com The Sauvestre slug was designed by the same guy who developed the M1 Abrams fin stabilized saboted projectile. Tried the 12 gauge 2 3/4" and 3" slugs. Accuracy not anywhere nearly as good as a standard rifled Foster slug when fired from 2 different Vang Comp'd barrels (one ported barrel, one barrel without ports). Recoil of both loads was considerably more punishing than standard Foster slugs.