CCW question

alzika · February 10, 2009, 11:55 PM

Let's say that a guy jumps in the car with me at a gas station. I get out of the car and draw my weapon on him and he gets out of my car, as well. He is standing at a distance of about 10 feet at this point.

If he approaches me after my weapon is drawn, what do I do? If he is within a distance of a few feet, I am worried that he could possibly take the weapon from me. However, up to this point, there was never a "threat" to my life other than the fact that he jumped in the car with me.

What do I do? Shoot the guy because he could possibly take the weapon from me?

OnTheFly · February 11, 2009, 12:24 AM

I'm not sure if I understand the question correctly, but...

Do not draw a weapon unless you feel that your life, or the lives of your loved ones are in jeopardy.

Do not draw your weapon unless you plan to use it.

Shoot to stop the threat. This doesn't equal kill, it means shoot until the threat is no longer a threat.

You also need to consider the local laws. Do you have a "Castle Doctrine" etc. to determine when it is considered appropriate to draw and use your firearm.
Edit: I must also add that this is quite a strange post and is highly suspicious. This sounds like a question that a non (maybe anti) gun person would ask. The assumption by many antis is that the non-military/police should not have a firearm because they are at higher risk of having it taken from them and used against them. It also sounds similar to some of the arguments I've heard from my anti-gun friends who don't understand the moral obligation when carrying a gun. One friend stated she would "feel bad if she shot someone because they were walking out of her house with a television". Clearly she does not understand that in many places, you are not allowed to use deadly force unless your life, or your loved ones lives, are at risk. This attitude wreaks of the fear that people who go to the trouble of obtaining a CC permit will simply shoot the first person who makes them mad.

In short...this sounds like a post from an anti. If this is a serious question from a gun enthusiast, then you better do some more reading and get your ducks in order before you carry a firearm. Reading and understanding the rules I've listed above would be a bare minimum start in that effort.

Fly

TheDingy · February 11, 2009, 12:31 AM

I live in Texas and we have a castle law.

I would be in fear of my life when he started to jump in the car. I would draw and as I was exiting the car do a 3 round burst center mass. Then evaluate the situation.

Cheers.

mnhntr · February 11, 2009, 12:45 AM

depends, if you think you have the ability to defend yourself against the person, you should not have drawn your weapon. if you can escape the situation, you should do so unless you live in a castle doctrine state. if the person is an obvious threat and you are not able to get away then shoot to stop the threat.
if you are an anti trolling, get a life. if not, welcome to the forum.

Keltyke · February 11, 2009, 09:02 AM

We have Castle Doctrine in SC that extends to the vehicle you're in. We also have no duty to retreat. That being said:

To draw and possibly fire, you MUST feel that you are in imminent danger of loss of life or severe bodily injury. The BG must have:

1. Opportunity
2. Ability
3. Intent

12GaugeShuggoth · February 11, 2009, 09:10 AM

The easiest and also best way to resolve this situation is pretty simple.
1. Work on your situational awareness. Someone getting close enough to enter your vehicle should already be on your radar.
2. Keep you vehicle doors locked. It's a safe and simple habit that more people should really follow.

OnTheFly · February 11, 2009, 10:05 AM

alzika,

What say you? One post asking a question and no response. Are you new to guns, been around them for a while, or are you an anti-gunner?

Fly

**OldMarksman** · February 11, 2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

If this is a serious question from a gun enthusiast, then you better do some more reading and get your ducks in order before you carry a firearm

.

That's good advice for everyone out there, and I'll add, get some training on the subject of the use of lethal force.

David Armstrong · February 11, 2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

What do I do? Shoot the guy because he could possibly take the weapon from me?

You cannot shoot based on a "could possibly" issue. You can shoot if you reasonably feel that you are in danger of death or great bodily harm (specific details vary from state to state).

Gazpacho · February 11, 2009, 01:21 PM

Retreat if possible, even if the law says you don't have to. Your firearm is a last resort.

Lee Lapin · February 11, 2009, 01:32 PM

1) Get training

2) Get training

3) GET TRAINING!!!

Go to http://www.nrahq.org/education/train...ictraining.asp , and look at the Personal Protection In The Home and the Personal Protection Outside The Home classes- AFTER you take the basic handgun classes.

You need training, and reading an Internet forum IS NOT a substitute. There are other options as well, ask at your local gun shop, gun club, shooting range or consult your local sheriff or police department to locate training opportunities near you.

Be Safe,

lpl

PhoenixConflagration · February 11, 2009, 01:39 PM

In Florida, the inside of your vehicle is the same as the inside of your home. If someone jumps into your car with you, you are legally presumed to be in fear of death/bodily harm. At that point it is up to you to decide to draw/shoot, or exit the vehicle and let them have it. Me personally, I would not exit my vehicle (my gun is accessible at all times). I would draw and gauge reaction before firing. I know someone who's been through this personally. Someone jumped in their van full of tools while others surrounded him. When he put his gun to the guy's head, the guy started screaming and wailing and his buddies drove off without him. The guy then got out and ran like hell. No shots were fired.

Glenn E. Meyer · February 11, 2009, 02:53 PM

If you are in the car - how about locking the door? Also, I think cars can move - why not?

Or it's just a silly question.

BikerRN · February 12, 2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Retreat if possible, even if the law says you don't have to. Your firearm is a last resort.

Just because the laws says you "can", doesn't always mean you should.

Biker

Playboypenguin · February 12, 2009, 02:36 AM

If I am at an establishment that is open for business., I jump out of the car and head straight for other people. I get away from him and into the store if there is one ...or at least up to the attendants window while calling the cops. Pulling the trigger one someone for "moving towards you" is just asking to become someone's dance partner in the pokie.

Brit · February 12, 2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

If you are in the car - how about locking the door? Also, I think cars can move - why not?

Or it's just a silly question.
__________________

Where do we get these guys?

jgrns · February 12, 2009, 01:24 PM

How about driving away???!!!
I'm hopeing you DON'T have a permit....

What if he got into your car by mistake, got out, realized his mistake and was returning to appologise????

jgrns · February 12, 2009, 01:28 PM

The test is:

Were you in eminent danger of "great bodily harm or death". That's what you'll be judged by. And, juries caqn be strange animals.

Hornett · February 12, 2009, 02:09 PM

I agree with OnTheFly

I don't think any 'real' gun owner here would draw on someone because the guy "jumps in the car with me"

You just drew on someone that did not pose a threat.
Maybe he's up to no good, maybe not. You just don't know at the time the gun is drawn in this scenario.

The whole premise is ludicrous.

The fact that alzika has a grand total of 1 post and has not responded in his own thread just adds to my suspicions.

Perhaps this thread should be closed as an "endless mindless scenario"

LHB1 · February 12, 2009, 04:41 PM

What do you think? New member, one post with question, several responses by other members, NO FOLLW-UP by OP in two days. Sick, busy at work, computer broke, rude, forgetful, anti-gunner, troll????

BuckHammer · February 12, 2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgrns

How about driving away???!!!

Possibly because he's at a gas station where he's pumping gas that he has not prepaid for. I can pump at many stations where I live without prepaying. Not paying for (stealing) gas tends to be highly frowned upon. Then again, it may be a better alternative than shooting an individual. You can always go back and pay. Also, many stations don't allow customers to pump without a credit card at the pump or without prepaying, so if that is the case, then that would rule out that reason not to drive away.

Also, since he's at a gas station, has anyone ever thought about the danger of expending a round near so many gas fumes? The burning of the powder may be dangerous in that scenario. I am curious to see what others think of this possible danger.

I don't know what to think about this scenario, but the best advice in this scenario is the following.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheFly

Do not draw a weapon unless you feel that your life, or the lives of your loved ones are in jeopardy.
Do not draw your weapon unless you plan to use it.
Shoot to stop the threat. This doesn't equal kill, it means shoot until the threat is no longer a threat.

Any .45 · February 12, 2009, 05:17 PM

How about being aware of your surroundings and never letting the guy in.
1. Be aware of your surroundings its survival of the fittest
2. Lock your door
3. If you were to be harmed, a criminal with intent to harm would have done it as soon as he jumped in the car. If he was going to rob you as soon as he was moving to do it he would have been a step ahead of you with his weapon what ever it maybe ready for action. Then once you stepped out of the car he would jump in the driver seat and drove away. People need money not jail on a murder one rap.

Don't be anti-gun loser, trolling to hear negative remarks on how we would blast him or cap him, no questions asked! The people on this forum are law abiding and have more knowledge of legislature and laws than most of the law writers themselves. Have alot of common sense and will help newbs if need be. So if you are a newb and just asking questions, welcome to TFL, if you're a troller. Please leave us be. Thank you and God Bless.

alzika · February 12, 2009, 07:30 PM

I really don't appreciate the negative responses here. I'm a new gun owner looking into a CCW permit and I'm trying to determine what you can do if you have drawn on someone and they get close enough to take the weapon from you.

Again, I don't appreciate the negativism. I hope all new members aren't treated in this manner.

Brian Pfleuger · February 12, 2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

I'm a new gun owner looking into a CCW permit and I'm trying to determine what you can do if you have drawn on someone and they get close enough to take the weapon from you.

I would advise you to take classes to this end. There are far too many variables, including local and state laws, to do much justice to a scenario like you have presented. Many areas require training classes to issue permits but those classes are, at best, elementary level and frequently nothing more than "Don't point your gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy." which, while important, should be the basis of gun ownership not concealed carry. The NRA and many other organizations, probably some local to you, can provide you with the information and training you require. Your local permit issuing office can (or should be able to) direct you to the appropriate places.

Quote:

Again, I don't appreciate the negativism. I hope all new members aren't treated in this manner.

*Sigh* It is all to common.

:barf:

Any .45 · February 12, 2009, 08:10 PM

We don't mean to be negative, we TFLers are very careful and critical about our guns. And although you cought the sharp end of the sword, we have had alot of trollers just trying to get us rowled up and say thngs they want gun owners to say just to strengthen there arguements that we gun toting bandits are crazy.

So please accept our apology, and welcome to TFL, I trust you will fin lots of knowledge here and alot of fun threads. If you are into guns and do want to learn just hang around and you will see things get real good. Well start here http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...t=lawdog+files I promise you'll enjoy it.

February 10, 2009, 11:55 PM	#1
alzika Junior member Join Date: August 24, 2008 Posts: 14	CCW question Let's say that a guy jumps in the car with me at a gas station. I get out of the car and draw my weapon on him and he gets out of my car, as well. He is standing at a distance of about 10 feet at this point. If he approaches me after my weapon is drawn, what do I do? If he is within a distance of a few feet, I am worried that he could possibly take the weapon from me. However, up to this point, there was never a "threat" to my life other than the fact that he jumped in the car with me. What do I do? Shoot the guy because he could possibly take the weapon from me?

February 11, 2009, 12:24 AM	#2
OnTheFly Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: SE Nebraska Posts: 859	I'm not sure if I understand the question correctly, but... Do not draw a weapon unless you feel that your life, or the lives of your loved ones are in jeopardy. Do not draw your weapon unless you plan to use it. Shoot to stop the threat. This doesn't equal kill, it means shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. You also need to consider the local laws. Do you have a "Castle Doctrine" etc. to determine when it is considered appropriate to draw and use your firearm. Edit: I must also add that this is quite a strange post and is highly suspicious. This sounds like a question that a non (maybe anti) gun person would ask. The assumption by many antis is that the non-military/police should not have a firearm because they are at higher risk of having it taken from them and used against them. It also sounds similar to some of the arguments I've heard from my anti-gun friends who don't understand the moral obligation when carrying a gun. One friend stated she would "feel bad if she shot someone because they were walking out of her house with a television". Clearly she does not understand that in many places, you are not allowed to use deadly force unless your life, or your loved ones lives, are at risk. This attitude wreaks of the fear that people who go to the trouble of obtaining a CC permit will simply shoot the first person who makes them mad. In short...this sounds like a post from an anti. If this is a serious question from a gun enthusiast, then you better do some more reading and get your ducks in order before you carry a firearm. Reading and understanding the rules I've listed above would be a bare minimum start in that effort. Fly __________________ I told my wife I was scheduling a mid-life crisis. It was either a Harley or guns. Secretly, I've already decided on guns. :-) Bang... Bang... Bang... Last edited by OnTheFly; February 11, 2009 at 11:56 AM.

February 11, 2009, 09:10 AM	#6
12GaugeShuggoth Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 534	The easiest and also best way to resolve this situation is pretty simple. 1. Work on your situational awareness. Someone getting close enough to enter your vehicle should already be on your radar. 2. Keep you vehicle doors locked. It's a safe and simple habit that more people should really follow. __________________ ---Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.--- ---Enlightenment is the ability to take infinite pains--- MOLON LABE

February 11, 2009, 10:05 AM	#7
OnTheFly Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: SE Nebraska Posts: 859	alzika, What say you? One post asking a question and no response. Are you new to guns, been around them for a while, or are you an anti-gunner? Fly __________________ I told my wife I was scheduling a mid-life crisis. It was either a Harley or guns. Secretly, I've already decided on guns. :-) Bang... Bang... Bang...

February 11, 2009, 01:39 PM	#12
PhoenixConflagration Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, Fl Posts: 517	In Florida, the inside of your vehicle is the same as the inside of your home. If someone jumps into your car with you, you are legally presumed to be in fear of death/bodily harm. At that point it is up to you to decide to draw/shoot, or exit the vehicle and let them have it. Me personally, I would not exit my vehicle (my gun is accessible at all times). I would draw and gauge reaction before firing. I know someone who's been through this personally. Someone jumped in their van full of tools while others surrounded him. When he put his gun to the guy's head, the guy started screaming and wailing and his buddies drove off without him. The guy then got out and ran like hell. No shots were fired. __________________ *There is nothing quite so dangerous as a pacifist, for they will readily sacrifice others* for their ideals.**

February 11, 2009, 12:31 AM	#3
TheDingy Junior Member Join Date: August 2, 2007 Posts: 11	I live in Texas and we have a castle law. I would be in fear of my life when he started to jump in the car. I would draw and as I was exiting the car do a 3 round burst center mass. Then evaluate the situation. Cheers.

February 11, 2009, 12:45 AM	#4
mnhntr Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Posts: 972	depends, if you think you have the ability to defend yourself against the person, you should not have drawn your weapon. if you can escape the situation, you should do so unless you live in a castle doctrine state. if the person is an obvious threat and you are not able to get away then shoot to stop the threat. if you are an anti trolling, get a life. if not, welcome to the forum.

February 11, 2009, 09:02 AM	#5
Keltyke Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: Spartanburg, SC Posts: 2,933	We have Castle Doctrine in SC that extends to the vehicle you're in. We also have no duty to retreat. That being said: To draw and possibly fire, you MUST feel that you are in imminent danger of loss of life or severe bodily injury. The BG must have: 1. Opportunity 2. Ability 3. Intent

February 11, 2009, 01:21 PM	#10
Gazpacho Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2004 Posts: 592	Retreat if possible, even if the law says you don't have to. Your firearm is a last resort.

February 11, 2009, 01:32 PM	#11
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	1) Get training 2) Get training 3) GET TRAINING!!! Go to http://www.nrahq.org/education/train...ictraining.asp , and look at the Personal Protection In The Home and the Personal Protection Outside The Home classes- AFTER you take the basic handgun classes. You need training, and reading an Internet forum IS NOT a substitute. There are other options as well, ask at your local gun shop, gun club, shooting range or consult your local sheriff or police department to locate training opportunities near you. Be Safe, lpl

February 11, 2009, 02:53 PM	#13
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	If you are in the car - how about locking the door? Also, I think cars can move - why not? Or it's just a silly question. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 12, 2009, 02:36 AM	#15
Playboypenguin Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Great Pacific Northwest Posts: 11,515	If I am at an establishment that is open for business., I jump out of the car and head straight for other people. I get away from him and into the store if there is one ...or at least up to the attendants window while calling the cops. Pulling the trigger one someone for "moving towards you" is just asking to become someone's dance partner in the pokie.

February 12, 2009, 01:24 PM	#17
jgrns Member Join Date: June 23, 2008 Posts: 21	DUH !! How about driving away???!!! I'm hopeing you DON'T have a permit.... What if he got into your car by mistake, got out, realized his mistake and was returning to appologise????

February 12, 2009, 01:28 PM	#18
jgrns Member Join Date: June 23, 2008 Posts: 21	The TEST is..... The test is: Were you in eminent danger of "great bodily harm or death". That's what you'll be judged by. And, juries caqn be strange animals.

February 12, 2009, 02:09 PM	#19
Hornett Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2006 Posts: 569	I agree with OnTheFly I don't think any 'real' gun owner here would draw on someone because the guy "jumps in the car with me" You just drew on someone that did not pose a threat. Maybe he's up to no good, maybe not. You just don't know at the time the gun is drawn in this scenario. The whole premise is ludicrous. The fact that alzika has a grand total of 1 post and has not responded in his own thread just adds to my suspicions. Perhaps this thread should be closed as an "endless mindless scenario" __________________ Guns don't kill people, Jack Bauer kills people.

February 12, 2009, 04:41 PM	#20
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	What do you think? New member, one post with question, several responses by other members, NO FOLLW-UP by OP in two days. Sick, busy at work, computer broke, rude, forgetful, anti-gunner, troll???? __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

February 12, 2009, 05:17 PM	#22
Any .45 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2004 Location: SW FLORIDA, USA Posts: 604	How about being aware of your surroundings and never letting the guy in. 1. Be aware of your surroundings its survival of the fittest 2. Lock your door 3. If you were to be harmed, a criminal with intent to harm would have done it as soon as he jumped in the car. If he was going to rob you as soon as he was moving to do it he would have been a step ahead of you with his weapon what ever it maybe ready for action. Then once you stepped out of the car he would jump in the driver seat and drove away. People need money not jail on a murder one rap. Don't be anti-gun loser, trolling to hear negative remarks on how we would blast him or cap him, no questions asked! The people on this forum are law abiding and have more knowledge of legislature and laws than most of the law writers themselves. Have alot of common sense and will help newbs if need be. So if you are a newb and just asking questions, welcome to TFL, if you're a troller. Please leave us be. Thank you and God Bless. __________________ Foster and polish The warior spirit While serving in the world; Illuminate the path According to your inner light" "Spring forth from the Great Earth; Billow like Great Waves; Stand like a tree, sit like a rock; Use One to strike All. Learn and forget! " "At the instant A warrior Confronts a foe, All things Come into focus" Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969) Founder of Aikido

February 12, 2009, 07:30 PM	#23
alzika Junior member Join Date: August 24, 2008 Posts: 14	I really don't appreciate the negative responses here. I'm a new gun owner looking into a CCW permit and I'm trying to determine what you can do if you have drawn on someone and they get close enough to take the weapon from you. Again, I don't appreciate the negativism. I hope all new members aren't treated in this manner.

February 12, 2009, 08:10 PM	#25
Any .45 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2004 Location: SW FLORIDA, USA Posts: 604	We don't mean to be negative, we TFLers are very careful and critical about our guns. And although you cought the sharp end of the sword, we have had alot of trollers just trying to get us rowled up and say thngs they want gun owners to say just to strengthen there arguements that we gun toting bandits are crazy. So please accept our apology, and welcome to TFL, I trust you will fin lots of knowledge here and alot of fun threads. If you are into guns and do want to learn just hang around and you will see things get real good. Well start here http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...t=lawdog+files I promise you'll enjoy it. __________________ Foster and polish The warior spirit While serving in the world; Illuminate the path According to your inner light" "Spring forth from the Great Earth; Billow like Great Waves; Stand like a tree, sit like a rock; Use One to strike All. Learn and forget! " "At the instant A warrior Confronts a foe, All things Come into focus" Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969) Founder of Aikido