Stranger walks up in your camp - Page 2

**JohnKSa** · August 31, 2006, 09:24 PM

A thick winter coat in East TX? That is pretty suspicious!

jfrey123 · August 31, 2006, 10:01 PM

I was that Boy Scout growing up. First time I shot my Glock, it was in the open desert near a place where I grew up camping and shooting rifles. There were a few people at the site, and I went up to announce my intentions before proceding, making sure they saw me and acknowledged me before entering their camp. I just felt like that common courtesy should be exercised since they were there first, and they thanked me for it. "Now that's a true Nevadan!" the two armed older men said.

I think that's how a stranger approaching a camp site should act. I'm always armed when I camp, rifles before I was legal to carry handguns. I agree with everyone when they say if your perticular intruder wanted you dead, he would've picked you off from 50 yards with that rifle. Your fire makes you a perfect glowing target while completely blinding you to your surroundings.

However, the ol' Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared" is still around for a reason. If someone just snuck into my camp quietly, I would have my hand near or on my pistol until I discovered his intentions. Usually when I camp, it's on open BLM land that you don't normally have any overnight neighbors. But I wouldn't be afraid to switch my hand from my gun to an empty cup for his cocoa if he didn't seem wierd to me.

Capt. Charlie · August 31, 2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

But, at the same time parks and wildlife areas have had occasional trouble with riff raff or some psycho wandering the country. In fact, I believe Big Bend national park has had A LOT of trouble with illegals and drug smugglers in their park terrorizing and even killing campers and even park rangers.

Hmm. I'm thinking maybe we have different definitions of "back country", Doug

. I was a back country ranger for the USNPS for five years, and when we speak of back country, we're talking about remote areas that are perhaps several days out on horseback and at least several days on foot.

Our problem areas were always in the front country, trail heads, short nature trails, and other easily accessible areas. Most bad guys seem to have one thing in common: They're lazy

. If it takes serious effort to get there, they won't bother.

Thefts were common around the campgrounds and trailheads at Grand Canyon, but on remote, difficult trails like the North Bass or Thunder River Trail, backpackers left their belongings out in plain view at their campsites, and I can't recall ever taking a theft report in those areas.

The sheer remoteness seems to separate classes of people. I'm MUCH more relaxed in the backcountry than I am walking the streets of my own neighborhood.

FrontSight · August 31, 2006, 11:39 PM

Great question! I'd gotta say, being from the Bronx, we'd watch the guy like a hawk from the second he got there till the second he left. It's so sad that life is like that. Seems we've almost eliminated the threat from attack by widlife (okay, rare bears, mountain lions & wolf attacks), and yet the one threat we have to fear the most is attack by our very own species. Something really wrong with this world.

TexanAmerican · September 1, 2006, 07:37 AM

Sounds to me a lot like the story about the guy that ran next door and killed his neighbor because someone SAID the neighbor molested his daughter. I think to make informed decisions based on sound thinking always takes precedence over assuming anything. We all know that assumption makes an ass or you and umtion. By the way, I doubt very seriously that coco is what I would be drinking. But that's just me.

Duxman · September 1, 2006, 08:27 AM

Hikers and campers are the friendliest folks that I know. Most of them around this area though (Shehnandoah, VA and such) are normally unarmed. Unless you count beer as a weapon.

Most of them invite you to join their camp / party and get yourself some free food and drink. (Sometimes free women.)

The last big camp-out my friends and I attended - there were some kayakers - and they had prime rib, angus meat burgers, gourmet hot dogs, and lots of beer.

Back to this particular scenario - I would probably let my instincts be my guide. Most of the time, if your gut feel tells you the person is OK, they normally are, but if your spidey sense is telling you there is something amiss....well I saw Wolf Creek and let me just say.....I would be on my guard for the rest of the trip.

springmom · September 1, 2006, 08:57 AM

Big Bend is an issue all to itself in this state. Because of the illegal trafficking of humans and drugs, that area has historically been pretty dangerous (relative to other parks in the state, that is). There was one incident some years ago of someone kayaking down the Colorado and getting shot at from the Mexican side of the border, and there are run-ins with drug traffickers.

But that sort of person isn't going to come wandering up to your campfire anyway, I expect.

FWIW, I too live in the Houston area, and I hunt alone in the Sam Houston National Forest without a qualm. I've had good conversations with other hunters (men, each time) who, in one case, helped me when I locked my keys in my truck

or who were just curious to see a lone woman with a rifle in camo in the forest in the middle of the week

I was armed, they were armed (not much point hunting if you're not) and everybody behaved and was civilized and pleasant. I do not worry about this. I wouldn't camp alone, but I wouldn't be afraid to camp up there either.

Springmom

BouncerDan · September 1, 2006, 08:07 PM

Something like this happened to me a couple years ago. I live in VERY rural florida. My family owns several thousand acres of land. At last count I believe it was over 5000 but not real sure anymore due to buying and selling.

Needless to say in small down Florida there is very little todo. So my all the young males in my family (we are very close) consisting of 4 of us aging between 23-12 like to get away and go camping. When we go we don't take cell phones or anything like that in an effort to get away from the modern world and all that implies.

On night on a other wise very routine camping trip a person whom looked like a hunter decided he would walk into our camp without announcing him self. Now to be competley honest we had mixed feeling about this. After all our camp site was less than 3 miles from four prisons (florida state Prison, Union correctional instute, New River Correction, And Bradford Correction Institue). The man was armed but everyone is down here. However we did find it weird that this man who was armed was walking around without a flashlight long after the sun had gone down. Not to mention he was on private property.

So after asking him several questions about what he was doing there and that kind of stuff (while my brother who was armed tryed to get an angle on him Just in case) We offered him a cup of coffee and asked him to move on.

We never saw or heard from him again. Although lets just say sleeping that ngiht wasn't a very easy task because that guy left a very bad taste in all of our mouths.

azurefly · September 1, 2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

When we go we don't take cell phones or anything like that in an effort to get away from the modern world and all that implies.

I wonder, sadly, how long it will be before any person who has an emergency in a remote area will be judged to have been negligent for opting not to bring a cellular phone with them.

These days, people act as though having a cellular phone is actual protection -- like you could stop an attacker by holding up your phone and announcing that you have the police on the line.

I think that it is fast becoming expected that you will have a cellular phone with you everywhere you go. And while I think your preference for leaving the damned things behind when you go camping is right on (I think I would consider doing that, myself, if I went camping), I could see someone later saying, "Well, your friend might not have died of that snakebite if you'd just done what normal people do and had a cell phone with you!" in derision and judgment.

Or in the case of having to shoot a miscreant who attacked or menaced you, they'd say, "Well, if you'd done like normal people and taken a cell phone with you, you could have gotten the police out there to handle the situation!" (Never mind that we know the police would not be there in time to be of any help to you whatsoever.)

I am on the fence about whether or not to bring a cellular phone if I went camping. I am in favor of the quaintness of being old-timey and stuff, but at the same time, it is a real-world practical thing to avail yourself of all that could benefit you in a survival emergency as long as it is convenient to carry. I'd be torn...

-azurefly

Blackwater OPS · September 1, 2006, 10:11 PM

You don't have to leave it on, or tell your wife, gf, boss you brought it......... Besides, how many of these places really have cell coverage? Are we talking sat phones here?

azurefly · September 1, 2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

We never saw or heard from him again. Although lets just say sleeping that ngiht wasn't a very easy task because that guy left a very bad taste in all of our mouths.

Although I understand what you meant, I think this was a kind of unfortunate choice of words, especially after you told us there's not much to do in rural Florida... :P

-azurefly

DonR101395 · September 1, 2006, 10:34 PM

The wife takes prone position in the tent with her M21 and thermal scope, little Janie and Becky Sue flank right to lay down cover fire, I get my nightsun spotlight to him then interogate............oh wait no

I offer him a cup of coffee while positioning myself with a clear background while I ask his intentions. If he seems ok I offer a second cup or send him on his way. Always being polite, but not a pushover.

+1 To asking before entering another's camp. It's just common sense, but then if it were common everyone would have it.
The way I explained it to my girls was the fire is like the t.v. in our living room and since it's not polite to walk into someones living room without knocking on the front door and being invited in, it's also not polite to walk into another persons camp without asking permission and being invited in.

Doug.38PR · September 2, 2006, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Hmm. I'm thinking maybe we have different definitions of "back country", Doug . I was a back country ranger for the USNPS for five years, and when we speak of back country, we're talking about remote areas that are perhaps several days out on horseback and at least several days on foot.

Our problem areas were always in the front country, trail heads, short nature trails, and other easily accessible areas. Most bad guys seem to have one thing in common: They're lazy . If it takes serious effort to get there, they won't bother.

Thefts were common around the campgrounds and trailheads at Grand Canyon, but on remote, difficult trails like the North Bass or Thunder River Trail, backpackers left their belongings out in plain view at their campsites, and I can't recall ever taking a theft report in those areas.

The sheer remoteness seems to separate classes of people. I'm MUCH more relaxed in the backcountry than I am walking the streets of my own neighborhood.

Now that does make sense. I had both rural and rough country areas in mind but as you point out there is a fine line between the two. I have never been west of Texas (save a flight I took to Denver once to an uncle's mountain home, but that had plenty of civilization around) so just about all the wildlife area's I've ever experienced are truly in the bush but civilization is fairly easily accessible 10-20 minute away with a hop in the pickup truck and a ranger station even closer in area's like Lake Texana State Park south of Houston and Davy Crockett National Forrest in East Texas. The one trip I took to Terrell County, Texas (near Big Bend) is as far West as I have experienced and it is indeed isolated.

**JohnKSa** · September 2, 2006, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Besides, how many of these places really have cell coverage? Are we talking sat phones here?

Once you get a ways out of town and more than a few miles from a major road, cell phone coverage gets pretty scarce.

GlocksRfun · September 2, 2006, 02:28 AM

I do some camping. True campers are great people, they're a different breed. Always gonna help.. Out in the middle of nowhere... Like said many a times... If he/she wanted to kill u with a rifle, u'd be dead before u see em. I'd welcome him in and be polite unless things go down hill, then hope for the best.

BouncerDan · September 2, 2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Besides, how many of these places really have cell coverage? Are we talking sat phones here?

You would be suprised about the cell phone coverage in Florida. In the area that I am in and do most of my camping verizon has full signal.

rick_reno · September 2, 2006, 08:26 AM

Is it chilly? I only ask because my experience is people who wear winter coats in summer are usually nuts. The opposite is true too - if it's fall and some guy shows up in my camp in a thong I'd be concerned.
If his coat is ok for the temps - invite him to have some hot chocolate. I've had this happen many times elk hunting and have never found myself in a defensive situation.

stephen426 · September 2, 2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

You would be suprised about the cell phone coverage in Florida. In the area that I am in and do most of my camping verizon has full signal.

Like the geek in the Verizon commercial says... "Its the network". I guess there is a little truth to that after all.

August 31, 2006, 09:24 PM	#26
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,975	A thick winter coat in East TX? That is pretty suspicious! __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

September 1, 2006, 07:37 AM	#30
TexanAmerican Member Join Date: August 31, 2006 Location: TEXAS, San Antonio Posts: 29	Sounds to me a lot like the story about the guy that ran next door and killed his neighbor because someone SAID the neighbor molested his daughter. I think to make informed decisions based on sound thinking always takes precedence over assuming anything. We all know that assumption makes an ass or you and umtion. By the way, I doubt very seriously that coco is what I would be drinking. But that's just me. __________________ They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. Vietnam Vet 1970. You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.

September 1, 2006, 08:57 AM	#32
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	Big Bend is an issue all to itself in this state. Because of the illegal trafficking of humans and drugs, that area has historically been pretty dangerous (relative to other parks in the state, that is). There was one incident some years ago of someone kayaking down the Colorado and getting shot at from the Mexican side of the border, and there are run-ins with drug traffickers. But that sort of person isn't going to come wandering up to your campfire anyway, I expect. FWIW, I too live in the Houston area, and I hunt alone in the Sam Houston National Forest without a qualm. I've had good conversations with other hunters (men, each time) who, in one case, helped me when I locked my keys in my truck or who were just curious to see a lone woman with a rifle in camo in the forest in the middle of the week I was armed, they were armed (not much point hunting if you're not) and everybody behaved and was civilized and pleasant. I do not worry about this. I wouldn't camp alone, but I wouldn't be afraid to camp up there either. Springmom __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

September 1, 2006, 08:07 PM	#33
BouncerDan Member Join Date: July 24, 2006 Location: Gainesville Fl Posts: 41	A real experance Something like this happened to me a couple years ago. I live in VERY rural florida. My family owns several thousand acres of land. At last count I believe it was over 5000 but not real sure anymore due to buying and selling. Needless to say in small down Florida there is very little todo. So my all the young males in my family (we are very close) consisting of 4 of us aging between 23-12 like to get away and go camping. When we go we don't take cell phones or anything like that in an effort to get away from the modern world and all that implies. On night on a other wise very routine camping trip a person whom looked like a hunter decided he would walk into our camp without announcing him self. Now to be competley honest we had mixed feeling about this. After all our camp site was less than 3 miles from four prisons (florida state Prison, Union correctional instute, New River Correction, And Bradford Correction Institue). The man was armed but everyone is down here. However we did find it weird that this man who was armed was walking around without a flashlight long after the sun had gone down. Not to mention he was on private property. So after asking him several questions about what he was doing there and that kind of stuff (while my brother who was armed tryed to get an angle on him Just in case) We offered him a cup of coffee and asked him to move on. We never saw or heard from him again. Although lets just say sleeping that ngiht wasn't a very easy task because that guy left a very bad taste in all of our mouths. __________________ This year will go down in history as the first year a civilized nation has full gun control, our streets will be safer, our police more effective. The rest of the world will follow our lead into the future." Adolf Hitler 1939. Sig 229 (.40 cal) Beretta 92 FS Beretta PX4 (.40 cal) Ruger P94TH (.40 cal) Ruger 10/22 AR 15 Mossberg 500 (12GA) (modified by myself from hunting variant to home defence variant) Remington 870 (20 GA)

September 1, 2006, 10:11 PM	#35
Blackwater OPS Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,152	You don't have to leave it on, or tell your wife, gf, boss you brought it......... Besides, how many of these places really have cell coverage? Are we talking sat phones here? __________________ "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin Spc. Jeremy M. Campbell Died 9/1/2005 and the best DS ever MSG Matthew Ritz Died 11.23.2005 matthewritz.com For those who have had to fight for it, Life holds a special meaning that the protected will never know. (\__/) (='.'=) Someone set us up the bunny! (")_(")

August 31, 2006, 10:01 PM	#27
jfrey123 Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2006 Location: Reno, NV. Posts: 1,026	I was that Boy Scout growing up. First time I shot my Glock, it was in the open desert near a place where I grew up camping and shooting rifles. There were a few people at the site, and I went up to announce my intentions before proceding, making sure they saw me and acknowledged me before entering their camp. I just felt like that common courtesy should be exercised since they were there first, and they thanked me for it. "Now that's a true Nevadan!" the two armed older men said. I think that's how a stranger approaching a camp site should act. I'm always armed when I camp, rifles before I was legal to carry handguns. I agree with everyone when they say if your perticular intruder wanted you dead, he would've picked you off from 50 yards with that rifle. Your fire makes you a perfect glowing target while completely blinding you to your surroundings. However, the ol' Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared" is still around for a reason. If someone just snuck into my camp quietly, I would have my hand near or on my pistol until I discovered his intentions. Usually when I camp, it's on open BLM land that you don't normally have any overnight neighbors. But I wouldn't be afraid to switch my hand from my gun to an empty cup for his cocoa if he didn't seem wierd to me.

August 31, 2006, 11:39 PM	#29
FrontSight Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 1,712	Great question! I'd gotta say, being from the Bronx, we'd watch the guy like a hawk from the second he got there till the second he left. It's so sad that life is like that. Seems we've almost eliminated the threat from attack by widlife (okay, rare bears, mountain lions & wolf attacks), and yet the one threat we have to fear the most is attack by our very own species. Something really wrong with this world.

September 1, 2006, 08:27 AM	#31
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	Hikers and campers are the friendliest folks that I know. Most of them around this area though (Shehnandoah, VA and such) are normally unarmed. Unless you count beer as a weapon. Most of them invite you to join their camp / party and get yourself some free food and drink. (Sometimes free women.) The last big camp-out my friends and I attended - there were some kayakers - and they had prime rib, angus meat burgers, gourmet hot dogs, and lots of beer. Back to this particular scenario - I would probably let my instincts be my guide. Most of the time, if your gut feel tells you the person is OK, they normally are, but if your spidey sense is telling you there is something amiss....well I saw Wolf Creek and let me just say.....I would be on my guard for the rest of the trip.

September 1, 2006, 10:34 PM	#37
DonR101395 Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2005 Location: NWFL Posts: 3,031	The wife takes prone position in the tent with her M21 and thermal scope, little Janie and Becky Sue flank right to lay down cover fire, I get my nightsun spotlight to him then interogate............oh wait no I offer him a cup of coffee while positioning myself with a clear background while I ask his intentions. If he seems ok I offer a second cup or send him on his way. Always being polite, but not a pushover. +1 To asking before entering another's camp. It's just common sense, but then if it were common everyone would have it. The way I explained it to my girls was the fire is like the t.v. in our living room and since it's not polite to walk into someones living room without knocking on the front door and being invited in, it's also not polite to walk into another persons camp without asking permission and being invited in.

September 2, 2006, 02:28 AM	#40
GlocksRfun Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 423	I do some camping. True campers are great people, they're a different breed. Always gonna help.. Out in the middle of nowhere... Like said many a times... If he/she wanted to kill u with a rifle, u'd be dead before u see em. I'd welcome him in and be polite unless things go down hill, then hope for the best.

September 2, 2006, 08:26 AM	#42
rick_reno Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 917	Is it chilly? I only ask because my experience is people who wear winter coats in summer are usually nuts. The opposite is true too - if it's fall and some guy shows up in my camp in a thong I'd be concerned. If his coat is ok for the temps - invite him to have some hot chocolate. I've had this happen many times elk hunting and have never found myself in a defensive situation.