Is a 5 shot groups 3/4" too much to ask for?

[bentrod]

I am reloading for a Rem. 700 ADL 7mm-08 and a BLR 308. I have shot groups less than 1/2" at 100 yds with both of these rifles with 3 rounds, but I can't get that 5 shot string to do this. It seems I get one out an inch or more, I wait 1 or more minutes between shots. Is this asking too much of a sporter? If I go with better triggers and bedding can I get < 1/2" for 5 rounds? Or should I just be happy with with this knowing I can hit where I need for the 3 rounds when hunting?

bentrod

[shooter_john]

(just a little fun I couldn't resist)
I have shot several sub 1/2 MOA 4 shot groups, and then thrown a flyer .5-1.5" off for no apparent reason. I think it is just a curse of some sort, my Savage's do it too! The most memorable is the .211" 4 shot group I got out of my 6.5x47 Lapua that was about 1.25" when you threw in the flyer .

Good Luck!

[tuck2]

By glass bedding the action, free floating the barrel, adjusting the trigger pull down to about three pounds, and having the bolt locking lugs lapped, two of my Remington 700 rifles have shot smaller five shot 100 yard groups. Evan when shooting off a bench rest with sand bags front and rear I will at times will get a round out of a group. At times I get five shot groups between 1/2 and 3/4 inch groups. For reloading ,a sack of 100 ea new cases are neck sized, trimmed, deburred in and out side the neck mouth, flash hole deburred, and the primer pocket is uniformed. The last step is to seperate the cases into groups of 20 ea by weight. Will all the work help you get better groups ? The only way you will know is if you do it. Good luck.

[MDman]

my most recent trip to the range with my savage and handloads resulted in a 5 shot group of .7

if it was easy to do it wouldnt be as satisfying

[Rugerno1shooter]

Let it cool longer, many of the members of the local gun club who are very serious shooters shoot groups like that (the 5 shot deal). A lot of them seem to feel that a 3 shot group doesn't tell enough and so the 5 shot group is the norm for them. They all let their rifles cool a fair amount. I noticed that with my 6.5x55 swede I can shoot two shots in the same hole and then if I don't let it cool enough it slings the third one (we let some of the better shooters in our area try it out and sure enough when we got em to shoot the 3 shot groups without letting it cool enough it would consistently put 2 in the same hole and the third off .75-1.0inches away. Doing this with a 5 shot group seems to only compound the fliers if you don't give it ample time to cool.

Pat
(when I'm really feeling the itch I let non mags with moderate loads cool for 5 mins on a nice brisk day (between shots) and anything mag or zippier non mag loads I let cool even longer between shots.)

[Wildalaska]

Absolutely not. In fact with a carefully crafted handload you should be able to do that regularly, if you can shoot worth a crap.

Not me. Nope. There is always that one screw up...the carefully crafted handloads with a SD of 0 alwys manage to pull a flyer...its time to recognize that..

It aint the gun...

it aint the load...

Its...... ME...

Thats right...ME.....

4 shots in one hole and then as I' pullin the trigger for 5 my butt itches and the round flies off an inch away! Or the guy next to me burps and I flinch! Or my eyeballs turn to like those red pinwheels you see in a photos of 1960s acidfests! or I get so nevous that MAYBEFORONECEINMYFREAKINLIFEIM GONNA SHOOT A ONE HOLER that I spazz out and start convulsing...one time the bad me took my left hand and started slapping my face as I pulled the trigger! Fire, doom and pestilence! Earthquakes! Locusts, enraged packs of locusts ripping at my flesh as I take aim!!!

I'VE HAD IT!!! its all mental discipline! And correction! yes. correction! Like that wierd English bald bartender in the Shining, I need to be "Caw reckted"...thats it...the next time I get a flyer I shall LOP OFF the offending part! Ya wanna shoot good...picture AMPUTATION if you dont.

You guys yack all ya want about technique! Like the Yakuza, when I shame again with a bad group.......give me the Ginsu knife...HAI!!! *lovely sounds of grunts and chopping* DOZO....*presents trigger finger on a platter*

WildguessishouldlayoffthevodkafortherestofthenightAlaska TM

[Slamfire]

I am reloading for a Rem. 700 ADL 7mm-08 and a BLR 308. I have shot groups less than 1/2" at 100 yds with both of these rifles with 3 rounds, but I can't get that 5 shot string to do this. It seems I get one out an inch or more, I wait 1 or more minutes between shots. Is this asking too much of a sporter? If I go with better triggers and bedding can I get < 1/2" for 5 rounds? Or should I just be happy with with this knowing I can hit where I need for the 3 rounds when hunting

I have a number of heavy, 10-12 pound target rifles, and a number of featherweights. The heavy rifles are just easier to shoot than a lightweight firearm. While they both may be capable of equal accuracy (doubtful) the lighter rifle just twitches and moves and is ungodly sensitive to followthrough.

With my heavy barrel target rifles, I am unhappy unless I get 10 shots under one inch. With my factory featherweights, five shots under 1.5 inches, good enough for me. If I do better, well, I am obviously happier .

The most important shot is the first shot. And that depends on your hold, your sight alignment and your trigger pull. You are the largest source of inaccuracy, and humans shoot a lot worse without a bench rest. If your rifle will shoot half MOA first three shots, that seems pretty darn good to me. You are not expecting an extended firefight with white tails are you?

As for improving the accuracy, if it ain't broke, don't fix. But if it was broke, the first thing to do is bed the action in the stock. Factory bedding is not so great and actions shift around in factory stocks.

Marketing departments make you think you can buy better accuracy with money. "Perfection is just a huge cash outlay away" Bull. A different trigger will only get you better accuracy if the factory trigger is awful. That is, lots of creep, ten ton pull weight, etc. If the trigger pull is crisp, and under 6 pounds (IMO) you can win the National Championships with it. You ought to see the groups fired by our Nation's best with 4.5 pound triggers at Camp Perry.

Practice is what makes you better, equipment upgrades allow improvements, but practice comes first.

[steveno]

my opinion is that unless you have a benchrest rifle or similar type rifle a 5 shot group is a waste of time. a 3 shot group is enough and that the first shot from a cold barrel is where it is supposed to be.

[bentrod]

A different trigger will only get you better accuracy if the factory trigger is awful. That is, lots of creep, ten ton pull weight, etc. If the trigger pull is crisp, and under 6 pounds (IMO) you can win the National Championships with it. You ought to see the groups fired by our Nation's best with 4.5 pound triggers at Camp

I agree with that, I shot service rifle at Perry for the 82nd Abn Div, back in the Garrand days. That is what bothers me now, I have shot enough to be able to call my shots, and when I get those fliers I know they aren't supposed to be there. They are not at 11:00 from me throwing my shoulder into it or at 4:00 from a trigger jerk. My NM M1 Trigger was around 4 lbs with NO creep. My Rem trigger isn't too bad but the BLR is terrible. I think I will be happy with my groups knowing that I can hit where I want on a deer. Now for my next move a heavy barrel tack driver.

[hodaka]

Like many of you, I have had numerous 4 shot groups that simply amazed me. I should stop there because the 5th one always opens it up. This sport can drive you crazy. A friend of mine gave up shooting 5 and stops at 4. Might have a point.