Thinking about building my own load

charlie in md · October 2, 2006, 08:33 PM

I know this goes against the basic rules of reloading, but I am thinking about trying a load that I don't have any direct data for. here's the deal: I have gotten hold of a powder that is not made anymore (Win 630), but had been used in 38 special, 357 mag, 45 auto rim, and 44 mag. Loads for those (8 to 10 grains for a 160 gr 38 special load to 20 grains for a 215 gr cast bullet 44 mag load).

Based on burn rate charts, Win 630 is between Win 571 and AA#7, and very close to both. In the .40 S&W, for a 180 grain bullet, there are loadings for both those powders between 7 and 8 grains. My thinking is that a load of 7 grains of 630 would be ok to try. Is this reasonable or a reaally bad idea?

cpaspr · October 2, 2006, 09:00 PM

reloading manuals that list those powders and the 630 for the same cartridge (ie those powder and the 630 for say, .38 special and 750 fps)?

Check a few combinations like that to give you a better idea of whether or not you can use the same quantity. I would think attempting to extrapolate a load would work better than simply finding two powders with similar burn rates. Remember, not all powders weigh the same that burn the same, so a similar charge weight might blow your gun up. Not a pleasant thought.

Note that I am not saying "go ahead and try". I have a similar question regarding a different powder/caliber combination, for which no one here was able to come up with a published load, and the solution I am currently following is to ask the powder manufacturer. So that is what I would suggest to you: Ask Winchester if they ever developed any loads for the .40 S&W using 630. They might surprise you with an affirmative answer.

Scott5 · October 2, 2006, 11:19 PM

Hey Charley,
I've got two load books that have 630 powder in it and it seems to fall in between AA7 and Blue Dot. So if you load for BD and ad one to two grains you will be OK.

Happy shooting
Scott5

charlie in md · October 3, 2006, 07:39 AM

Thanks for the comments! I'll try contacting Winchester. I had another idea as well. I'll check my old American rifleman magazines to see if there are any loadings published from back then, although I'm not sure if there was a gap between the time 630 stopped being produced and the invention of the 40 smith.

arkie2 · October 3, 2006, 09:42 AM

Winchester powder has been bought by Hodgdons. Hodgdons has a number listed ((913) 362-9455 ) on their web page to call regarding Winchester powder. They may be able to give you some data.

HankL · October 3, 2006, 01:43 PM

Charlie, It's not a bad idea at all if you have enough of the powder on hand to
justify your time expended in working up the loads you want. Be safe.

charlie in md · October 3, 2006, 02:31 PM

Hank - yep, I got 8 pounds of it, so at 7 grains per load, that's about 8000 shots.

I am going to research more before I decide.

**Unclenick** · October 3, 2006, 03:25 PM

Cpaspr's point that the energy density of different powders isn't necessarily the same, is a good one. This number is usually given in joules of energy per gram of powder or in foot-pounds of energy per pound of powder. It has a range in commercial cannister powders over which the highest number is about 1.5 times the lowest number. So, if you take or interpolate a load from other powder of a matching burning rate, then reduce the charge you are guessing at by 1/3, you should have a safe starting load.

Nick

MrGee · October 3, 2006, 06:47 PM

your question had brought intrest as i have an unopened can of HighVel#2 ..just above 3031 [ more rifle then pistol], it has some corrosive characters thow , i would check your 630. while searching i came across a site that i never saw before, an they may give more info on your quest ,, http://groups.msn.com/THEGUNROOM/homepage1.msnw
in the mean time here is what i did come up with..
there are two 630's - W630 an W630P both are just above Blue Dot on the burning chart [ http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm ]
some loads i've found for the 40 Auto..
Powder Chg Bullet Weight Primer COL Velocity S/D Energy
Blue Dot 12.2 Nosler JHP 135 WSP 1.125 1337 N/A 536
Blue Dot 11.5 Nosler JHP 150 WSP 1.125 1229 N/A 503
IMR 800x 8.8** Golden Saber 165 WSP 1.125 1111* 22 452
Blue Dot 10.1 Speer Gold Dot 165 WSP 1.125 1176/1060* 31 507/412
AA #7 10.4 Speer Gold Dot 165 WSP 1.125 1166 N/A 498
Blue Dot 8.9 Speer Gold Dot 180 WSP 1.125 1065 N/A 453
Blue Dot 7.6 LSWC 175 WSP 1.120 1000 N/A 389
AA #5 6.1 LSWC 175 WSP 1.125 984 N/A 376

Note: Out of the JHP loads tested, these yeilded the best velocities. Accuracy was good with all loads.
*Shot from G23.
**Exceeds recommended load data.
Ps/ those old empty 1lb.cans of W630 have some value ...

flutedchamber · October 3, 2006, 09:09 PM

Charlie,

I was wondering if this was a sealed 8 pound keg when you got it?? If not, there is an article in this month's Handloading Magazine that you should read before you use it.

charlie in md · October 4, 2006, 06:43 AM

G- Thanks for your info and the link. I'll check it out.

Fluted - I'll look for the magazine and get the article.

snuffy · October 4, 2006, 01:24 PM

I used a LOT of it back in the 70's. Mostly in my SBH, for handgun silhouette.

It did have a drawback though. it's burn rate and the fact that it's a fine grained ball powder, resulted in it burning very hot right at the cykinder gap of most revolvers. It would destroy the back of the barrel and forcing cone after extensive use. It did mine! As soon as I noticed it, I sent the gun to Ruger to have a 10.5 bbl. installed.

Use of it in a closed chamber such as all auto pistols, would negate the problem. I still have a pound of it somewhere in my stockpile, if you come up with a load, I'll be interested. I'd say it would work good in 40 S&W with heavier bullets. Best use would be 357 sig or 38 super!

Hmmm, gotta go see if I can find that pound of 630, sounds like a project brewing!

caz223 · October 5, 2006, 05:04 PM

I was kinda thinking about doing the same thing with power pistol in .41 magnum.

AlaskaMike · October 6, 2006, 02:37 PM

Caz, I've been testing Power Pistol in .44 magnum and have been very happy so far for loads in the 900 - 1200 fps range. For me, it's basically going to replace Unique for those loads.

Mike

charlie in md · October 7, 2006, 06:40 PM

I loaded up 5 cartridges each, 7.0, 7.2, and 7.4 grains of 630.

Good news is that they fired, no pressure signs. And they hit the target.

Bad news is that none of the loads cycled the gun (BHP) properly.

SO

Now I've loaded up 5 more each at 7.7, 7.9 and 8.1 grains. I should be able to test those on Monday.

Will let you know what happens.

charlie in md · October 9, 2006, 06:26 PM

Got back to the range today. With a 180 grain bullet, here's what happened:

7.7 grains of Winchester 630 - cycled 4 out of 5 (clise, but too light)

7.9 grains - every round (5) cycled,

8.1 grains - every round (5) cycled,

8.3 grains - every round (3) cycled

No signs of excessive pressure in any of the loads.

Thanks for all the info and advice!

October 2, 2006, 08:33 PM	#1
charlie in md Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Posts: 185	Thinking about building my own load I know this goes against the basic rules of reloading, but I am thinking about trying a load that I don't have any direct data for. here's the deal: I have gotten hold of a powder that is not made anymore (Win 630), but had been used in 38 special, 357 mag, 45 auto rim, and 44 mag. Loads for those (8 to 10 grains for a 160 gr 38 special load to 20 grains for a 215 gr cast bullet 44 mag load). Based on burn rate charts, Win 630 is between Win 571 and AA#7, and very close to both. In the .40 S&W, for a 180 grain bullet, there are loadings for both those powders between 7 and 8 grains. My thinking is that a load of 7 grains of 630 would be ok to try. Is this reasonable or a reaally bad idea?

October 2, 2006, 11:19 PM	#3
Scott5 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2004 Posts: 134	Win 630 Hey Charley, I've got two load books that have 630 powder in it and it seems to fall in between AA7 and Blue Dot. So if you load for BD and ad one to two grains you will be OK. Happy shooting Scott5

October 3, 2006, 01:43 PM	#6
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Charlie, It's not a bad idea at all if you have enough of the powder on hand to justify your time expended in working up the loads you want. Be safe. __________________ Check 6

October 3, 2006, 03:25 PM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Doing the Math Cpaspr's point that the energy density of different powders isn't necessarily the same, is a good one. This number is usually given in joules of energy per gram of powder or in foot-pounds of energy per pound of powder. It has a range in commercial cannister powders over which the highest number is about 1.5 times the lowest number. So, if you take or interpolate a load from other powder of a matching burning rate, then reduce the charge you are guessing at by 1/3, you should have a safe starting load. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 4, 2006, 01:24 PM	#12
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	630-a good powder I used a LOT of it back in the 70's. Mostly in my SBH, for handgun silhouette. It did have a drawback though. it's burn rate and the fact that it's a fine grained ball powder, resulted in it burning very hot right at the cykinder gap of most revolvers. It would destroy the back of the barrel and forcing cone after extensive use. It did mine! As soon as I noticed it, I sent the gun to Ruger to have a 10.5 bbl. installed. Use of it in a closed chamber such as all auto pistols, would negate the problem. I still have a pound of it somewhere in my stockpile, if you come up with a load, I'll be interested. I'd say it would work good in 40 S&W with heavier bullets. Best use would be 357 sig or 38 super! Hmmm, gotta go see if I can find that pound of 630, sounds like a project brewing! __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

October 2, 2006, 09:00 PM	#2
cpaspr Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 304	Do you have any older reloading manuals that list those powders and the 630 for the same cartridge (ie those powder and the 630 for say, .38 special and 750 fps)? Check a few combinations like that to give you a better idea of whether or not you can use the same quantity. I would think attempting to extrapolate a load would work better than simply finding two powders with similar burn rates. Remember, not all powders weigh the same that burn the same, so a similar charge weight might blow your gun up. Not a pleasant thought. Note that I am not saying "go ahead and try". I have a similar question regarding a different powder/caliber combination, for which no one here was able to come up with a published load, and the solution I am currently following is to ask the powder manufacturer. So that is what I would suggest to you: Ask Winchester if they ever developed any loads for the .40 S&W using 630. They might surprise you with an affirmative answer.

October 3, 2006, 07:39 AM	#4
charlie in md Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Posts: 185	Thanks for the comments! I'll try contacting Winchester. I had another idea as well. I'll check my old American rifleman magazines to see if there are any loadings published from back then, although I'm not sure if there was a gap between the time 630 stopped being produced and the invention of the 40 smith.

October 3, 2006, 09:42 AM	#5
arkie2 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Posts: 475	Winchester powder has been bought by Hodgdons. Hodgdons has a number listed ((913) 362-9455 ) on their web page to call regarding Winchester powder. They may be able to give you some data.

October 3, 2006, 02:31 PM	#7
charlie in md Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Posts: 185	Hank - yep, I got 8 pounds of it, so at 7 grains per load, that's about 8000 shots. I am going to research more before I decide.

October 3, 2006, 06:47 PM	#9
MrGee Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 260	your question had brought intrest as i have an unopened can of HighVel#2 ..just above 3031 [ more rifle then pistol], it has some corrosive characters thow , i would check your 630. while searching i came across a site that i never saw before, an they may give more info on your quest ,, http://groups.msn.com/THEGUNROOM/homepage1.msnw in the mean time here is what i did come up with.. there are two 630's - W630 an W630P both are just above Blue Dot on the burning chart [ http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm ] some loads i've found for the 40 Auto.. Powder Chg Bullet Weight Primer COL Velocity S/D Energy Blue Dot 12.2 Nosler JHP 135 WSP 1.125 1337 N/A 536 Blue Dot 11.5 Nosler JHP 150 WSP 1.125 1229 N/A 503 IMR 800x 8.8** Golden Saber 165 WSP 1.125 1111* 22 452 Blue Dot 10.1 Speer Gold Dot 165 WSP 1.125 1176/1060* 31 507/412 AA #7 10.4 Speer Gold Dot 165 WSP 1.125 1166 N/A 498 Blue Dot 8.9 Speer Gold Dot 180 WSP 1.125 1065 N/A 453 Blue Dot 7.6 LSWC 175 WSP 1.120 1000 N/A 389 AA #5 6.1 LSWC 175 WSP 1.125 984 N/A 376 Note: Out of the JHP loads tested, these yeilded the best velocities. Accuracy was good with all loads. Shot from G23. *Exceeds recommended load data. Ps/ those old empty 1lb.cans of W630 have some value ...

October 3, 2006, 09:09 PM	#10
flutedchamber Member Join Date: July 14, 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 61	Charlie, I was wondering if this was a sealed 8 pound keg when you got it?? If not, there is an article in this month's Handloading Magazine that you should read before you use it.

October 4, 2006, 06:43 AM	#11
charlie in md Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Posts: 185	G- Thanks for your info and the link. I'll check it out. Fluted - I'll look for the magazine and get the article.

October 5, 2006, 05:04 PM	#13
caz223 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,429	I was kinda thinking about doing the same thing with power pistol in .41 magnum. __________________ I'm not just a gun. I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me.)

October 6, 2006, 02:37 PM	#14
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Caz, I've been testing Power Pistol in .44 magnum and have been very happy so far for loads in the 900 - 1200 fps range. For me, it's basically going to replace Unique for those loads. Mike

October 7, 2006, 06:40 PM	#15
charlie in md Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Posts: 185	progress report I loaded up 5 cartridges each, 7.0, 7.2, and 7.4 grains of 630. Good news is that they fired, no pressure signs. And they hit the target. Bad news is that none of the loads cycled the gun (BHP) properly. SO Now I've loaded up 5 more each at 7.7, 7.9 and 8.1 grains. I should be able to test those on Monday. Will let you know what happens.

October 9, 2006, 06:26 PM	#16
charlie in md Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Posts: 185	Success! Got back to the range today. With a 180 grain bullet, here's what happened: 7.7 grains of Winchester 630 - cycled 4 out of 5 (clise, but too light) 7.9 grains - every round (5) cycled, 8.1 grains - every round (5) cycled, 8.3 grains - every round (3) cycled No signs of excessive pressure in any of the loads. Thanks for all the info and advice!