Form 7, question 24

Triam · November 17, 2016, 12:03 PM

Me and some business partners are trying to get an FFL. We're worried about question 24 on the form 7. Specifically, we have a problem with: Has Applicant or any Person Referred to in Item 22 Above: Been an Employee of a Federal Firearms Licensee?
The problem is that I have twice. I'm more than willing to disclose this to one of my former bosses, but my other boss is paranoid about trade secrets. We're not going to use any of his trade secrets and we're not even going to be competing with him, but if he heard that we were starting a firearms company he'd litigate.
My question really is: Would the ATF contact my former boss if I answer yes on this question? If so, we may have to make it so that I'm just an employee of the company and my partners will run the whole thing to avoid this problem.

jag2 · November 17, 2016, 02:13 PM

No idea but if you didn't sign some sort of non-compete contract I doubt there is much he could do. I'm curious, without going into too much detail what kind of trade secrets would an FFL have?

carguychris · November 17, 2016, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triam

Would the ATF contact my former boss if I answer yes on this question?

It's impossible to say.

The nominal reason for the question is to prevent an FFL that has been shut down or sanctioned for violating ATF regulations from proverbially playing musical chairs and reshuffling the same personnel when applying for a new license, to disguise who's running the show.

If the former employer had frequent problems with the ATF, it's probably more likely that he'll be contacted, but it can't be entirely ruled out in any case.

I would recommend contacting a qualified attorney to discuss your predicament. If your former employer is that paranoid, he may catch wind of what you're doing regardless of how the application is handled.

**44 AMP** · November 17, 2016, 03:15 PM

Assume all everyone you list will be contacted. To verify your information, if nothing else.

Most likely is a call, Hello, we're the ATF doing a check, did MR Triam work for you from X to Y?
he did? Ok, thanks, have a nice day.

If you are concerned about a former employer taking legal action against you, because YOU complied with a Federal investigation, I don't think they would have much of a case. But I'm not a lawyer.

Talk to a lawyer, and see what their advice is.

If you are going to be starting a firearms business, in this day and age, and you don't have a qualified lawyer (both general business and firearms law) on speed dial, (and maybe on retainer), then you are being "penny wise and pound foolish".

And, also keep SPECIFICS off the interweb. Assume any, and everything you post is permanently available to anyone, and could be used in any future legal action.

Did I mention, talk to a lawyer??

**Frank Ettin** · November 17, 2016, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jag2

...I'm curious, without going into too much detail what kind of trade secrets would an FFL have?

If nothing else any business' customer lists and other customer information contained in internal records of the business are usually considered trade secrets.

kilimanjaro · November 18, 2016, 11:06 PM

Unless you signed a promise not to compete, just what is it you could be sued for?

Don't tell me the answer, but do discuss it with your attorney.

**Frank Ettin** · November 18, 2016, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilimanjaro

Unless you signed a promise not to compete, just what is it you could be sued for? ....

A former employee who appropriates his former employer's trade secrets, like customer lists, can be sued even without a non-compete agreement. Such suits are often unsuccessful, and are really worth pursuing only in unique cases. But the cause of action is available.

Hal · November 19, 2016, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Me and some business partners are trying to get an FFL

In order to have a successful small business, you need,

- A good CPA to do your taxes and advise you.
(It's easy to make money - - hanging on to what you make is the hard part)

- A good insurance agent.

- A good lawyer that knows something about business.

This is a good question to direct to the last person listed above...

Triam · November 21, 2016, 05:30 PM

Quote:

No idea but if you didn't sign some sort of non-compete contract I doubt there is much he could do. I'm curious, without going into too much detail what kind of trade secrets would an FFL have?

We manufactured firearms so there were techniques that we developed that extended tooling life.

Quote:

The nominal reason for the question is to prevent an FFL that has been shut down or sanctioned for violating ATF regulations from proverbially playing musical chairs and reshuffling the same personnel when applying for a new license, to disguise who's running the show.

If the former employer had frequent problems with the ATF, it's probably more likely that he'll be contacted, but it can't be entirely ruled out in any case.

He's still operating, plus I haven't worked for him for about 8 years.
I'll probably put yes and explain on a separate sheet like it says, but I will talk to a lawyer before I submit it.

osbornk · November 22, 2016, 01:51 PM

I would just put the information on the form and let it go. Failure to do so is probably some sort of felony should they discover that you were hiding something. They would't care why you hid the information from them, only that you did.

November 17, 2016, 12:03 PM	#1
Triam Junior Member Join Date: November 17, 2016 Posts: 2	Form 7, question 24 Me and some business partners are trying to get an FFL. We're worried about question 24 on the form 7. Specifically, we have a problem with: Has Applicant or any Person Referred to in Item 22 Above: Been an Employee of a Federal Firearms Licensee? The problem is that I have twice. I'm more than willing to disclose this to one of my former bosses, but my other boss is paranoid about trade secrets. We're not going to use any of his trade secrets and we're not even going to be competing with him, but if he heard that we were starting a firearms company he'd litigate. My question really is: Would the ATF contact my former boss if I answer yes on this question? If so, we may have to make it so that I'm just an employee of the company and my partners will run the whole thing to avoid this problem.

November 17, 2016, 03:15 PM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Assume all everyone you list will be contacted. To verify your information, if nothing else. Most likely is a call, Hello, we're the ATF doing a check, did MR Triam work for you from X to Y? he did? Ok, thanks, have a nice day. If you are concerned about a former employer taking legal action against you, because YOU complied with a Federal investigation, I don't think they would have much of a case. But I'm not a lawyer. Talk to a lawyer, and see what their advice is. If you are going to be starting a firearms business, in this day and age, and you don't have a qualified lawyer (both general business and firearms law) on speed dial, (and maybe on retainer), then you are being "penny wise and pound foolish". And, also keep SPECIFICS off the interweb. Assume any, and everything you post is permanently available to anyone, and could be used in any future legal action. Did I mention, talk to a lawyer?? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 17, 2016, 02:13 PM	#2
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	No idea but if you didn't sign some sort of non-compete contract I doubt there is much he could do. I'm curious, without going into too much detail what kind of trade secrets would an FFL have?

November 18, 2016, 11:06 PM	#6
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Unless you signed a promise not to compete, just what is it you could be sued for? Don't tell me the answer, but do discuss it with your attorney.

November 22, 2016, 01:51 PM	#10
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	I would just put the information on the form and let it go. Failure to do so is probably some sort of felony should they discover that you were hiding something. They would't care why you hid the information from them, only that you did.