Scenario: No 911

pdmoderator · June 11, 2002, 12:09 PM

Follow-on from another thread.

You are alone in your home. A BG has broken in and you now have him at gunpoint. He's acting submissive.

You live in an iffy zone for cellphones, so you don't have one. The BG has cut your landline, so you don't have that either.

You don't dare approach the BG to tie him up, because he might make a grab for your gun.

What next?

- pdmoderator

fix · June 11, 2002, 12:26 PM

Send him out for Chinese?

Christopher II · June 11, 2002, 01:23 PM

Hmmmm. Lots of options, none really good.

- Let him leave, perhaps with a polite request to not return.
- Order him to pound his head against the wall until he passes out, then tie him up.
- Shoot him, then prepare to start your new life as the lunch meat in a prison shower sandwich.

No, what I'd really do is get on the two-meter amatuer radio and see if anyone's awake. Maybe a short transmission on the police frequency would get some help in short order. Always have communications.

- Chris

Frohickey · June 11, 2002, 01:30 PM

lets see... make him lie on his back, and do an upside down alligator walk or snake slither out of the house, all the while trailing him about 10 feet.

jmlv · June 11, 2002, 02:37 PM

check for any signs of life and walk next door to call police and corners wagon(ok ambulance). Not much left AFTER the Saint AND pitbull get done chewing on em. Shoot more than most likely I won't even have to shootem. I do keep a good mop around through.

pdmoderator · June 11, 2002, 02:44 PM

Saw something similar in one of the Gabe Suarez books. BG is on his knees, his back to you, with his fingers interlaced behind his head.

Stairs present some special problems.

- pdmoderator

CWL · June 11, 2002, 04:52 PM

Is this an isolated house situation? How do you know that his buddies aren't out there aiming at your brainpan with stolen 9mms? Get defensible, make sure your back isn't presented to windows, doorways, etc.

Would three shots in the air (ground) attract neighbors?

How handy is your duct tape? I've got a roll in the closet.

Keeping the perp covered while maintaining awareness of your surroundings, make him lay down on his stomach in preparation of hogtieing.

While he's still down and not unsuspecting, deliver a strong kick into his gut, or left ribcage (near heart) to knock wind out of him as well as any fight he was planning.

DO NOT KICK HEAD or floating ribs. Breaking too much on him may get you in trouble afterwards with LE. Him complaining of bruised ribs recieved while you were one-handedly subdueing him won't get him too much sympathy from LE or DA.

Place gun against his spine and use other hand to duct tape/hogtie him. Make him feel happy that you might let him live.

Secure help from neighbors, or get in car and leave area.

pdmoderator · June 11, 2002, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Would three shots in the air (ground) attract neighbors?

Prolly. Though not in all cell-free places where this scenario might occur. And it'd mean that I'd have to stop covering him for a second or two.

Quote:

While he's still down and not unsuspecting, deliver a strong kick into his gut, or left ribcage (near heart) to knock wind out of him as well as any fight he was planning.

And as you approach him to deliver the kick, he sweeps your leg. Unh-unh.

- pdmoderator

CWL · June 11, 2002, 06:16 PM

If you had as fast and dangerous of a hombre as that, you'd have to shoot him, or you'd be dead.

Leg sweep? Ahem... Trigger-finger faster than leg. .45ACP beats grappling maneuver.

People I've pointed a firearm at know I'm pointing a loaded firearm. It's out of your control how stupid the other person is.

C.R.Sam · June 11, 2002, 07:45 PM

Trigger finger not likely faster than your leg getting swept.
High risk move on his part but your shot not gonna go where you were initially pointed.

Sam

CWL · June 11, 2002, 08:46 PM

I thought we all practiced.

The trigger travel of my Wilson Combat is ~0.25inch.
Leg sweep maneuver ~3 feet. Which one is faster?

If you get beat out by a sweep, he's either the Terminator and you're gonna die, or you don't deserve to own a firearm for self protection -buy 10 Rottweilers instead.

Practice to the point of muscle memory. Not every gang-banger/junkie/burglar/BG is practiced in martial arts. They're more likely practiced in bum-rushing the unprepared. So what if your shot is 2-4" off of COM? This is why I've settled on .45ACP as the best compromise round. I still have better odds grappling a BG who has been perforated by a .45ACP hollowpoint.

I've learned my share of leg sweep and grappling maneuvers. Even lived in Shanghai for a year studying wu-shu. Had the crap beat outta be every morning @ 5:30AM by an old man with flawless leg sweeps. I could still take him if I had a .45.

How do LEOs perform solo arrests? -Yes it is dangerous, yes, some die in the line of duty, BUT, most perform the arrest.

This high risk, I'm just bettering the odds for myself.

C.R.Sam · June 11, 2002, 11:31 PM

Once the mind is made up.....a hand or foot can move three feet before you can make the decision and pull the trigger. sometimes. Bout four tenths of a second to play with.

High risk move but some try it......and some succeed.

Sam

CP220 · June 12, 2002, 01:00 AM

Hold the BG at gunpoint while you get your handcuffs (no, not the pink furry ones that the wife likes

) and tell him to cuff himself. I know that not everyone has handcuffs, but you should always be prepared for anything.
And make it perfectly clear the entire time that he is on YOUR property and that if they try something, you will shoot them.
Once they have cuffed themselves, walk them out to your car, throw them into the trunk, and drive them to the police station.

Thats the best I can come up with, without being un-PC

Tommytrauma · June 12, 2002, 12:03 PM

I have a shovel and lots of land.

gbob01 · June 14, 2002, 08:37 PM

I guess this situation is where Louisiana's shoot the intruder laws come in handy. Have him stand, put two in his chest...splash one BG. Call 911 at your leisure. PS.. I don't advocate this type of violence, really.

Mannlicher · June 14, 2002, 09:12 PM

call Koffee Anan to moderate a dialog. Maybe one of the current crop of pop psychologists/sociologists could help. Once we dertermine that he is blameless due to poor child rearing skills by his crack head mom, then I think we have a firm basis for the voluntary redistribution of your wealth. You are willing to give this unfortunant another chance, arnt you?

scotjute · June 19, 2002, 12:39 PM

Have him duct tape his own legs together. Several windings should prove impossible to break. Then have him duct tape one arm to his side. That leaves one hand/arm free. Then holding pistol on him, you duct tape the remaining arm to either his body or his other arm.
There's probably no fool proof way to secure that doesn't involve some risk.

Christopher II · June 19, 2002, 01:15 PM

Have him handcuff himself? Do you really want to hand the intruder a weapon? Maybe hand him a zip tie...

- Chris

Don Gwinn · June 19, 2002, 02:38 PM

Hand him a weapon? Technically, I suppose anything is a weapon, but if he can take you from across the room with nothing but a pair of handcuffs when you have a .45 trained on him, why not just put your head between your cheeks and kiss your ass goodbye?
If he can do that, he probably doesn't need the handcuffs.

buzz_knox · June 19, 2002, 03:21 PM

Make him remove any ski mask or gloves he's wearing. Have him touch several objects in the room and take his photograph. Then, escort him outside and tell him to run. Then take a couple of the objects and the film to the cops.

Alternatively, smile real big and say "boy, you'se purty. The geek is going to like you." Tell him to drop his pants and toss him a rubber ball, telling him to he'd better put in his mouth because the geek don't like to hear loud screams, and ask him if he's a "bleeder." If he says no, tell him "lucky boy, you might just survive." Then open the basement door saying "here geek, I got a purty piggie for you." Take your finger off the trigger so you don't accidentally shoot the perp (who you'll never see again) when he runs like he!!.

June 11, 2002, 12:09 PM	#1
pdmoderator Registration in progress Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,202	Scenario: No 911 Follow-on from another thread. You are alone in your home. A BG has broken in and you now have him at gunpoint. He's acting submissive. You live in an iffy zone for cellphones, so you don't have one. The BG has cut your landline, so you don't have that either. You don't dare approach the BG to tie him up, because he might make a grab for your gun. What next? - pdmoderator __________________ Give up no state. Give up no ground.

June 11, 2002, 01:23 PM	#3
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	Hmmmm. Lots of options, none really good. - Let him leave, perhaps with a polite request to not return. - Order him to pound his head against the wall until he passes out, then tie him up. - Shoot him, then prepare to start your new life as the lunch meat in a prison shower sandwich. No, what I'd really do is get on the two-meter amatuer radio and see if anyone's awake. Maybe a short transmission on the police frequency would get some help in short order. Always have communications. - Chris __________________ "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein "Contrary to popular belief, your vote does not matter, and you cannot make a difference." - Bob Murphy, "Picking Neither of Two Evils" My PGP Public Key

June 11, 2002, 01:30 PM	#4
Frohickey Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 579	lets see... make him lie on his back, and do an upside down alligator walk or snake slither out of the house, all the while trailing him about 10 feet. __________________ Frohickey -- TFL Alumni SigSauer, if you are listening, MAKE A DOUBLE-STACK 10mm PISTOL!

June 11, 2002, 02:37 PM	#5
jmlv Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: PA AMERICA STARTS HERE! Posts: 739	Holster gun, leash dog(s) check for any signs of life and walk next door to call police and corners wagon(ok ambulance). Not much left AFTER the Saint AND pitbull get done chewing on em. Shoot more than most likely I won't even have to shootem. I do keep a good mop around through. __________________ JMLV NEW PA RESIDENT TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

June 11, 2002, 02:44 PM	#6
pdmoderator Registration in progress Join Date: November 6, 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,202	BG crabwalk Saw something similar in one of the Gabe Suarez books. BG is on his knees, his back to you, with his fingers interlaced behind his head. Stairs present some special problems. - pdmoderator __________________ Give up no state. Give up no ground.

June 11, 2002, 12:26 PM	#2
fix Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2001 Posts: 919	Send him out for Chinese?

June 11, 2002, 04:52 PM	#7
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	Is this an isolated house situation? How do you know that his buddies aren't out there aiming at your brainpan with stolen 9mms? Get defensible, make sure your back isn't presented to windows, doorways, etc. Would three shots in the air (ground) attract neighbors? How handy is your duct tape? I've got a roll in the closet. Keeping the perp covered while maintaining awareness of your surroundings, make him lay down on his stomach in preparation of hogtieing. While he's still down and not unsuspecting, deliver a strong kick into his gut, or left ribcage (near heart) to knock wind out of him as well as any fight he was planning. DO NOT KICK HEAD or floating ribs. Breaking too much on him may get you in trouble afterwards with LE. Him complaining of bruised ribs recieved while you were one-handedly subdueing him won't get him too much sympathy from LE or DA. Place gun against his spine and use other hand to duct tape/hogtie him. Make him feel happy that you might let him live. Secure help from neighbors, or get in car and leave area.

June 11, 2002, 06:16 PM	#9
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	If you had as fast and dangerous of a hombre as that, you'd have to shoot him, or you'd be dead. Leg sweep? Ahem... Trigger-finger faster than leg. .45ACP beats grappling maneuver. People I've pointed a firearm at know I'm pointing a loaded firearm. It's out of your control how stupid the other person is.

June 11, 2002, 07:45 PM	#10
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Trigger finger not likely faster than your leg getting swept. High risk move on his part but your shot not gonna go where you were initially pointed. Sam

June 11, 2002, 08:46 PM	#11
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	I thought we all practiced. The trigger travel of my Wilson Combat is ~0.25inch. Leg sweep maneuver ~3 feet. Which one is faster? If you get beat out by a sweep, he's either the Terminator and you're gonna die, or you don't deserve to own a firearm for self protection -buy 10 Rottweilers instead. Practice to the point of muscle memory. Not every gang-banger/junkie/burglar/BG is practiced in martial arts. They're more likely practiced in bum-rushing the unprepared. So what if your shot is 2-4" off of COM? This is why I've settled on .45ACP as the best compromise round. I still have better odds grappling a BG who has been perforated by a .45ACP hollowpoint. I've learned my share of leg sweep and grappling maneuvers. Even lived in Shanghai for a year studying wu-shu. Had the crap beat outta be every morning @ 5:30AM by an old man with flawless leg sweeps. I could still take him if I had a .45. How do LEOs perform solo arrests? -Yes it is dangerous, yes, some die in the line of duty, BUT, most perform the arrest. This high risk, I'm just bettering the odds for myself.

June 11, 2002, 11:31 PM	#12
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Once the mind is made up.....a hand or foot can move three feet before you can make the decision and pull the trigger. sometimes. Bout four tenths of a second to play with. High risk move but some try it......and some succeed. Sam

June 12, 2002, 01:00 AM	#13
CP220 Member Join Date: May 20, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 57	Hold the BG at gunpoint while you get your handcuffs (no, not the pink furry ones that the wife likes ) and tell him to cuff himself. I know that not everyone has handcuffs, but you should always be prepared for anything. And make it perfectly clear the entire time that he is on YOUR property and that if they try something, you will shoot them. Once they have cuffed themselves, walk them out to your car, throw them into the trunk, and drive them to the police station. Thats the best I can come up with, without being un-PC __________________ No one can outrun Mr. Sig Sauer

June 12, 2002, 12:03 PM	#14
Tommytrauma Member Join Date: February 1, 2002 Posts: 72	I have a shovel and lots of land. __________________ But I don't WANT to be a pie!

June 14, 2002, 08:37 PM	#15
gbob01 Member Join Date: June 14, 2002 Location: backwoods of south Louisiana Posts: 18	I guess this situation is where Louisiana's shoot the intruder laws come in handy. Have him stand, put two in his chest...splash one BG. Call 911 at your leisure. PS.. I don't advocate this type of violence, really. __________________ living without liberty, is not living _________________________ Administrator: http://www.proshooter.org Come join the group

June 14, 2002, 09:12 PM	#16
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,210	call Koffee Anan to moderate a dialog. Maybe one of the current crop of pop psychologists/sociologists could help. Once we dertermine that he is blameless due to poor child rearing skills by his crack head mom, then I think we have a firm basis for the voluntary redistribution of your wealth. You are willing to give this unfortunant another chance, arnt you? __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

June 19, 2002, 12:39 PM	#17
scotjute Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Location: texas Posts: 260	Duct tape is probably the solution... Have him duct tape his own legs together. Several windings should prove impossible to break. Then have him duct tape one arm to his side. That leaves one hand/arm free. Then holding pistol on him, you duct tape the remaining arm to either his body or his other arm. There's probably no fool proof way to secure that doesn't involve some risk.

June 19, 2002, 01:15 PM	#18
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	Have him handcuff himself? Do you really want to hand the intruder a weapon? Maybe hand him a zip tie... - Chris __________________ "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein "Contrary to popular belief, your vote does not matter, and you cannot make a difference." - Bob Murphy, "Picking Neither of Two Evils" My PGP Public Key

June 19, 2002, 02:38 PM	#19
Don Gwinn Staff Emeritus Join Date: March 9, 2000 Location: Virden, IL Posts: 5,917	Hand him a weapon? Technically, I suppose anything is a weapon, but if he can take you from across the room with nothing but a pair of handcuffs when you have a .45 trained on him, why not just put your head between your cheeks and kiss your ass goodbye? If he can do that, he probably doesn't need the handcuffs. __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don Gwinn: Chicago Gun Rights Examiner

June 19, 2002, 03:21 PM	#20
buzz_knox Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse Posts: 4,190	Make him remove any ski mask or gloves he's wearing. Have him touch several objects in the room and take his photograph. Then, escort him outside and tell him to run. Then take a couple of the objects and the film to the cops. Alternatively, smile real big and say "boy, you'se purty. The geek is going to like you." Tell him to drop his pants and toss him a rubber ball, telling him to he'd better put in his mouth because the geek don't like to hear loud screams, and ask him if he's a "bleeder." If he says no, tell him "lucky boy, you might just survive." Then open the basement door saying "here geek, I got a purty piggie for you." Take your finger off the trigger so you don't accidentally shoot the perp (who you'll never see again) when he runs like he!!.