Wondering about my body armor

AirborneMosinFan · September 21, 2011, 04:02 PM

I am in the army soon to be out but my new guy asked me a question today that worried me alittle. I know that our body armor would stop an ak, this I've seen. But would it stop a mosin nagant, I put this fear in him (he is soon deploying) because I told him I've found them in Iraq before and he knows the difference between the two rounds. Granted the military doesn't conduct combat operations anymore Id love to tell him his plates will take the hit but I don't know. Has anyone taken a shot at ceramic plates with soft armor behind it. What happened if you had?

Skadoosh · September 21, 2011, 04:08 PM

If he is issued level IV plates, he should be okay.

AirborneMosinFan · September 21, 2011, 06:27 PM

I figure after anything hit the plate it wouldnt have the energy to go through Kevlar.

Mike40-11 · September 25, 2011, 03:55 PM

The SAPI plates will stop a Mosin (or PSL or Dragunov) 7.62x54R. I have seen it. The soft armor will not. The inserts are actually rated for 7.62x51 AP but I can't personally vouch for that.

Griffin Armament · September 27, 2011, 01:57 AM

There is no good in fear. It's better to do the best you can and come to terms with the fact you can be killed at any time, without letting fear possess you.

Iraq is quite safe. I'm in Baghdad right now. So really he has little to worry about if he's headed here. There are rounds that will defeat armor, but they are rarely encountered to the extent that it is not worth concerning yourself with them. The people shooting are poorly equipped and logistically under matched.

Iraq is safe compared to 2005 or 2007, but it isn't your hometown- there are still risks that require intelligent planning to mitigate.

Staying in an armored vehicle whenever possible is the best course of action in high threat areas.

If turret gunning, don't stand up proud like a Roman centurion on a chariot- adjust the seat to keep you low, look through the keyhole in the turret brace, spin the turret as necessary to maintain security, make adjustments to maximize your security, especially if you are static in urban areas.

If you are walking out in town and there is a sniper threat, walking in a zig zag pattern is recommended and is a British technique from Northern Ireland experience called "ballooning".

If he finds himself out in town securing something for more than 10 minutes I would recommend he make himself the hard target by moving randomly and often. By that I mean, if you are static, change position slightly and often. Also keeping plates on the threat and not exposing soft areas like his side/armpit area to the most likely avenue for the threat. This can be done without looking unprofessional or worried. What will happen is the guy on glass will select someone else who is not moving as much or is exposing more.

It's a rough world. It would be better if no one had to be a target, but it is better that someone else be the target than to be the target yourself.

I am a trained sniper, I also taught sniper awareness / counter sniper in the military I read a 150 page document on it and I've worked in urban environments in Iraq for 3 deployed years. Somewhere or another I've used all these techniques. I've also seen what happens to people who make mistakes. In 2005 for instance we rolled down a street (low in turrets). a minute later and 100M away, Bradleys rolled down the same street with gunners standing tall. One shot- and one dead gunner. A sad effect of bad SOP's.

Don't be an easy target.

kwat1621 · November 23, 2011, 02:53 AM

I can actually give you some good info on this. In January 2005, I was on patrol in Sadr City. (Not to be confrontational to Griffin but we were doing all the right things, sometimes S@#$ just happens.) Anyways I was shot in my left shoulder by a Dragunov. It went about 3 inches above my plate on my front. Shattering my collerbone, and chipping my shoulder blade before stretching my skin and hitting my rear plate, breaking it. The bullet did not break my skin in the back, but you could see it through the skin. The impact of the bullet on the vest did a tremendous amount of damage. It broke 2 or 3 of my lower ribs, messed up my lung, seperated my shoulder badly, and knocked me out (probably had a bad concussion, but that wasn't much of a concern at the time.) Just so you have some info, or anyone else who may be curious about this

Sport45 · November 23, 2011, 03:34 AM

Ouch!

Thanks for your service, kwat1621. Sorry you had to take one like that for the team.

September 21, 2011, 04:02 PM	#1
AirborneMosinFan Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2011 Location: Kelly nc Posts: 137	Wondering about my body armor I am in the army soon to be out but my new guy asked me a question today that worried me alittle. I know that our body armor would stop an ak, this I've seen. But would it stop a mosin nagant, I put this fear in him (he is soon deploying) because I told him I've found them in Iraq before and he knows the difference between the two rounds. Granted the military doesn't conduct combat operations anymore Id love to tell him his plates will take the hit but I don't know. Has anyone taken a shot at ceramic plates with soft armor behind it. What happened if you had? __________________ "To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace." - General George Washington

September 21, 2011, 04:08 PM	#2
Skadoosh Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2010 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 2,016	If he is issued level IV plates, he should be okay. __________________ NRA Life Member USN Retired

September 21, 2011, 06:27 PM	#3
AirborneMosinFan Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2011 Location: Kelly nc Posts: 137	I though so I figure after anything hit the plate it wouldnt have the energy to go through Kevlar. __________________ "To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace." - General George Washington

September 27, 2011, 01:57 AM	#5
Griffin Armament Junior Member Join Date: September 24, 2011 Posts: 10	There is no good in fear. It's better to do the best you can and come to terms with the fact you can be killed at any time, without letting fear possess you. Iraq is quite safe. I'm in Baghdad right now. So really he has little to worry about if he's headed here. There are rounds that will defeat armor, but they are rarely encountered to the extent that it is not worth concerning yourself with them. The people shooting are poorly equipped and logistically under matched. Iraq is safe compared to 2005 or 2007, but it isn't your hometown- there are still risks that require intelligent planning to mitigate. Staying in an armored vehicle whenever possible is the best course of action in high threat areas. If turret gunning, don't stand up proud like a Roman centurion on a chariot- adjust the seat to keep you low, look through the keyhole in the turret brace, spin the turret as necessary to maintain security, make adjustments to maximize your security, especially if you are static in urban areas. If you are walking out in town and there is a sniper threat, walking in a zig zag pattern is recommended and is a British technique from Northern Ireland experience called "ballooning". If he finds himself out in town securing something for more than 10 minutes I would recommend he make himself the hard target by moving randomly and often. By that I mean, if you are static, change position slightly and often. Also keeping plates on the threat and not exposing soft areas like his side/armpit area to the most likely avenue for the threat. This can be done without looking unprofessional or worried. What will happen is the guy on glass will select someone else who is not moving as much or is exposing more. It's a rough world. It would be better if no one had to be a target, but it is better that someone else be the target than to be the target yourself. I am a trained sniper, I also taught sniper awareness / counter sniper in the military I read a 150 page document on it and I've worked in urban environments in Iraq for 3 deployed years. Somewhere or another I've used all these techniques. I've also seen what happens to people who make mistakes. In 2005 for instance we rolled down a street (low in turrets). a minute later and 100M away, Bradleys rolled down the same street with gunners standing tall. One shot- and one dead gunner. A sad effect of bad SOP's. Don't be an easy target. __________________ Visit our website and Blog Griffin Armament Sound Suppressors Like Us on Facebook Last edited by Griffin Armament; September 27, 2011 at 02:05 AM.

November 23, 2011, 03:34 AM	#7
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Ouch! Thanks for your service, kwat1621. Sorry you had to take one like that for the team. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

September 25, 2011, 03:55 PM	#4
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 841	The SAPI plates will stop a Mosin (or PSL or Dragunov) 7.62x54R. I have seen it. The soft armor will not. The inserts are actually rated for 7.62x51 AP but I can't personally vouch for that.

November 23, 2011, 02:53 AM	#6
kwat1621 Junior Member Join Date: November 23, 2011 Posts: 1	I can actually give you some good info on this. In January 2005, I was on patrol in Sadr City. (Not to be confrontational to Griffin but we were doing all the right things, sometimes S@#$ just happens.) Anyways I was shot in my left shoulder by a Dragunov. It went about 3 inches above my plate on my front. Shattering my collerbone, and chipping my shoulder blade before stretching my skin and hitting my rear plate, breaking it. The bullet did not break my skin in the back, but you could see it through the skin. The impact of the bullet on the vest did a tremendous amount of damage. It broke 2 or 3 of my lower ribs, messed up my lung, seperated my shoulder badly, and knocked me out (probably had a bad concussion, but that wasn't much of a concern at the time.) Just so you have some info, or anyone else who may be curious about this

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