.380 use on real gunfight

shotokan99 · November 28, 2007, 09:12 PM

are there any members that had used .380 specifically bersa thunder 380 on an actual or real shootout? can you share your experience? i like this little gun and plan to have it soon.

tnx

Tanzer · November 28, 2007, 09:23 PM

Not buying it in anticipation of a gunfight, I hope.

tshadow6 · November 28, 2007, 09:31 PM

Here is one true story. An off-duty Tampa,Fl firefighter shot his attacker once in the chest with his .380. The attacker died on the spot. My Bersa .380 likes the Remington JHP .380 round.

YounGun24 · November 28, 2007, 09:37 PM

I just got my CCP last week, and have been carrying my Bersa .380 on my ankle for 4 days. No shootouts yet.

kgpcr · November 28, 2007, 10:59 PM

My opinion is its smaller than i would like. I am a hard core .40 fan but this "Smuch is for sure a .380 is better than no gun at all. Not my first choice but there are worse to be had. Better to have a .380 that is comfy to carry than a 1911 (I LOVE 1911's) you never carry due to size.

Jim March · November 28, 2007, 11:19 PM

With this class of gun/caliber and the 38 snubbies, you need to be REALLY picky about ammo. And in the case of a semi like the Bersa, you then need to worry about whether or not that quality ammo will feed - so you need to shoot at least 200 rounds of it, AFTER the gun is broken in with 100-200 rounds of whatever.

For ammo choices, start here:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Various%...handloads.html

This is the first time I've seen his data on the 380 as this isn't a caliber I'm personally into (I'm a wheelgun guy). What I get from it is that the 90gr XTP and Gold Dot projectiles work well enough when driven at 900fps or better. I would consider speed-testing factory with those slugs across a chrony from my gun and if they're getting enough heat, yeah, they oughta work. Other than that the 85gr Federal slug looks at least respectable.

Cor-bon's 80gr ain't punching deep enough.

tcov · November 28, 2007, 11:55 PM

I worked with a guy who shot a home invader with a Walther 380. Two shots and gun jammed. One hit an arm and other well off center of torso. Bad guy stood there whining about being shot and had to be knocked down with one punch. The guy had not practiced and tested for reliability. The police told him to shoot more than 2 shots with a 380 but that doesn't help if it jams. He now keeps a 38 for protection but is probably still a bad shot. The lesson is to practice and make shure your gun works always. I always wanted a Walther and traded for one this summer. The pistol was unreliable til after about 200 rounds of hardball. Magazine catch had a burr that needed filing. I don't consider it reliable with hollow points. I like the 380 but don't want another Walther. I have heard positive reports about the Bersa but haven't shot one.

**JohnKSa** · November 29, 2007, 12:02 AM

Quote:

I don't consider it reliable with hollow points.

Probably just as well, some experts advise carrying only FMJ in a .380 due to the fact that JHP rounds tend to penetrate less than is generally considered adequate.

shotokan99 · November 29, 2007, 01:01 AM

actually from other threads...folks always suggest 38 snub is alot better choice than .380. the only thing that attracts me with .380 is the size....plus reloading is easy compared to wheelgun.

BPCustomShop · November 29, 2007, 01:19 AM

I have carried the Thunder 380 and used Federal Hydra-Shoks. No problems with feeding. A friend of mine has used the same pistol in a defense situation, also with same ammo. He had an attacker try to car-jack him with a knife. He shot him 3 times and he died straight away. What's the old saying? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!

tshadow6 · November 29, 2007, 06:29 AM

A .380 in your pocket beats a .45 in your gun safe. My Bersa is reliable with ball ammo and Remington JHPs. I haven't shot it with any other top brand hollowpoints yet. With 9 rounds in the piece and at least one spare magazine, you should be "good to go."

FM12 · November 29, 2007, 08:47 AM

Got to agree with Tshadow6 here...you won't carry a heavy, uncomfortable sidearm very long.

I had a Bersa and really liked it, it functioned well and was reliable.

Got to also agree with JohnKSa (always good to agree with the staff, don't you think?) also...I carry FMJ in my Colt .380. Much more dependable and better penetration.

ISP2605 · November 29, 2007, 09:07 AM

Not the Bersa particularly but several incidents with .380.
On 10/02/96 while doing an arrest on a fed fugitive he opened up on us with a TEC-9 in one hand and a Colt Mustang .380 in the other, firing 11 rds at us. Both were loaded with FMJ. On the receiving end you couldn't tell the difference between the 2 calibers, they sounded the same indoors. He ended up shooting himself in the head with the .380. The rd entered in front of and just above the right ear, exited to the rear and just above the left ear, went thru the upholstering of a chair, went thru 1/2" drywall, and stopped in about 1" of 2X4 stud.
We use to issue PPK to senior command who wanted them. Issued ammo was W-W Silvertip. One of our guys shot a subject at about arms length distance. Rd hit the guy center just below the rib cage and came to rest up against the spine.
Investigated a few shootings where .380 was used but none of them hit vitals.

markj · November 29, 2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

some experts advise carrying only FMJ in a .380

I use only FMJ in everything I shoot or carry. In actual testing on real flesh HP bounce off ribs, do not penetrate much etc. FMJ works every time for me. We use animal carcases for our testing.

SundownRider · November 29, 2007, 12:18 PM

Just shot my new (to me) Interarms Walther PPK 380 with Winchester WinFree ammo.

Completely reliable for the 100 rounds I shot, no failures to feed, fire, or extract.

Accuracy was incredible, and one handed shooting was equally impressive.

Would have no hesitation carrying or defending.

obxned · November 29, 2007, 02:19 PM

Most data from actual real world use shows that the JHPs give better results than the FMJs. Since these results are old, and while FMJs stay the same, JHPs keep improving, I will choose JHPs.

I would be happy with any of the current production premium JHPs, but I like the DoubleTap Gold Dots best!

shotokan99 · November 29, 2007, 09:47 PM

i read in some threads, that small pistols like bersa 380 has less fear factor compared to full-size 1911s. how true is this?

**JohnKSa** · November 29, 2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Most data from actual real world use shows that the JHPs give better results than the FMJs.

I think this is true in general, the problem is that at the .380ACP energy levels you can't get any decent amount of expansion without paying an unacceptable penalty in penetration. Even the newest expanding loads in .380 show penetration levels that are too shallow if you believe what the FBI states as a minimum.

Timeframe · November 30, 2007, 05:14 PM

Need to look at what Cor Bonn is bring out in defense ammo for smaller calibers.Suddenly my .380 Mak isn't so bad after all.

Jim March · November 30, 2007, 08:43 PM

Interesting new options:

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#380

**JohnKSa** · November 30, 2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Interesting new options:

Well, sorta...

First of all, hotrodding ammunition intended primarily for blowback action firearms strikes me as a bad idea.

Second, two of the three rounds are non-expanding rounds. Which is odd because .380 doesn't need extra power to get sufficient penetration with non-expanding rounds. All those loads will do is put a lot more wear on your gun & wallet and a hurting on whatever is behind your attacker.

As far as the expanding round goes, at least they're realistic about its use.

"...we would advise that you load this bullet in your chamber, followed by a magazine full of our non-expanding loads. So, if the first shot does not incapacitate the attacker, your magazine is full of ammo that will, if you can put the bullet in his spine or brain from any angle."

matthew temkin · December 1, 2007, 07:58 AM

A buddy of mine was covering a detail for one of his company's security guards who called in sick one night many moons ago.
The job was guarding a warehouse and he saw a guy stealing some stuff.
He walked up to the perp, drew his Walter PPK in .380 and proudly announced, "I got you!!"
Seconds later they were rolling on the ground, the perp pounding my buds head, screaming, "Who's got who, pig!!"
My friend then fired two contact shots into the bad guys ribs, which prompted him to get to his feet, dust himself off and tell my bud, "You shouldn't be trying to scare someone with a damn cap gun" before walking out the door.
Police found him lying in a pool of blood about 3 blocks from the crime scene, still very much alive.
Soon after this my bud bought a 9mm S&W.

MyGunsJammed · December 1, 2007, 09:19 AM

matthew temkin A buddy of mine was covering a detail for one of his company's security guards who called in sick one night many moons ago.
The job was guarding a warehouse and he saw a guy stealing some stuff.
He walked up to the perp, drew his Walter PPK in .380 and proudly announced, "I got you!!"
Seconds later they were rolling on the ground, the perp pounding my buds head, screaming, "Who's got who, pig!!"
My friend then fired two contact shots into the bad guys ribs, which prompted him to get to his feet, dust himself off and tell my bud, "You shouldn't be trying to scare someone with a damn cap gun" before walking out the door.
Police found him lying in a pool of blood about 3 blocks from the crime scene, still very much alive.
Soon after this my bud bought a 9mm S&W.

This story was kinda funny lol....but sucks for your friend who got jumped though....

matthew temkin · December 1, 2007, 11:55 AM

I agree..he was also guilty of bad tactics.
I prefer a .38 snub for concealment, yet I know of quite a few failure to stop instances with that caliber.

shotokan99 · December 2, 2007, 09:53 PM

sounds funny..but is it really true? why is there really a big difference when it comes to power between .380 and .38 coming from snub revo?

November 28, 2007, 09:12 PM	#1
shotokan99 Member Join Date: December 26, 2005 Posts: 45	.380 use on real gunfight are there any members that had used .380 specifically bersa thunder 380 on an actual or real shootout? can you share your experience? i like this little gun and plan to have it soon. tnx

November 28, 2007, 09:23 PM	#2
Tanzer Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Posts: 884	Not buying it in anticipation of a gunfight, I hope. __________________ Only the ignorant find ignorance to be bliss. Only those of us who know better will suffer from it.

November 28, 2007, 09:37 PM	#4
YounGun24 Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 131	I just got my CCP last week, and have been carrying my Bersa .380 on my ankle for 4 days. No shootouts yet. __________________ Walther P99 AS (9mm), Bersa Thunder 380cc (.380acp), H&R Sportsman Model 999 (.22LR), Remington 1100 LT-20

November 28, 2007, 10:59 PM	#5
kgpcr Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 955	My opinion is its smaller than i would like. I am a hard core .40 fan but this "Smuch is for sure a .380 is better than no gun at all. Not my first choice but there are worse to be had. Better to have a .380 that is comfy to carry than a 1911 (I LOVE 1911's) you never carry due to size. __________________ Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag Smith M&P 40

November 28, 2007, 11:19 PM	#6
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	With this class of gun/caliber and the 38 snubbies, you need to be REALLY picky about ammo. And in the case of a semi like the Bersa, you then need to worry about whether or not that quality ammo will feed - so you need to shoot at least 200 rounds of it, AFTER the gun is broken in with 100-200 rounds of whatever. For ammo choices, start here: http://www.brassfetcher.com/Various%...handloads.html This is the first time I've seen his data on the 380 as this isn't a caliber I'm personally into (I'm a wheelgun guy). What I get from it is that the 90gr XTP and Gold Dot projectiles work well enough when driven at 900fps or better. I would consider speed-testing factory with those slugs across a chrony from my gun and if they're getting enough heat, yeah, they oughta work. Other than that the 85gr Federal slug looks at least respectable. Cor-bon's 80gr ain't punching deep enough. __________________ Jim March

November 28, 2007, 09:31 PM	#3
tshadow6 Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 619	actual .380 incident Here is one true story. An off-duty Tampa,Fl firefighter shot his attacker once in the chest with his .380. The attacker died on the spot. My Bersa .380 likes the Remington JHP .380 round.

November 28, 2007, 11:55 PM	#7
tcov Member Join Date: June 17, 2004 Location: OLYMPIC PENINSULA WA Posts: 51	I worked with a guy who shot a home invader with a Walther 380. Two shots and gun jammed. One hit an arm and other well off center of torso. Bad guy stood there whining about being shot and had to be knocked down with one punch. The guy had not practiced and tested for reliability. The police told him to shoot more than 2 shots with a 380 but that doesn't help if it jams. He now keeps a 38 for protection but is probably still a bad shot. The lesson is to practice and make shure your gun works always. I always wanted a Walther and traded for one this summer. The pistol was unreliable til after about 200 rounds of hardball. Magazine catch had a burr that needed filing. I don't consider it reliable with hollow points. I like the 380 but don't want another Walther. I have heard positive reports about the Bersa but haven't shot one.

November 29, 2007, 01:01 AM	#9
shotokan99 Member Join Date: December 26, 2005 Posts: 45	actually from other threads...folks always suggest 38 snub is alot better choice than .380. the only thing that attracts me with .380 is the size....plus reloading is easy compared to wheelgun.

November 29, 2007, 01:19 AM	#10
BPCustomShop Junior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Posts: 9	I have carried the Thunder 380 and used Federal Hydra-Shoks. No problems with feeding. A friend of mine has used the same pistol in a defense situation, also with same ammo. He had an attacker try to car-jack him with a knife. He shot him 3 times and he died straight away. What's the old saying? Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!

November 29, 2007, 06:29 AM	#11
tshadow6 Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 619	.380 A .380 in your pocket beats a .45 in your gun safe. My Bersa is reliable with ball ammo and Remington JHPs. I haven't shot it with any other top brand hollowpoints yet. With 9 rounds in the piece and at least one spare magazine, you should be "good to go."

November 29, 2007, 08:47 AM	#12
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	Got to agree with Tshadow6 here...you won't carry a heavy, uncomfortable sidearm very long. I had a Bersa and really liked it, it functioned well and was reliable. Got to also agree with JohnKSa (always good to agree with the staff, don't you think?) also...I carry FMJ in my Colt .380. Much more dependable and better penetration. Last edited by FM12; November 29, 2007 at 08:53 AM. Reason: corrections

November 29, 2007, 09:07 AM	#13
ISP2605 Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Posts: 954	Not the Bersa particularly but several incidents with .380. On 10/02/96 while doing an arrest on a fed fugitive he opened up on us with a TEC-9 in one hand and a Colt Mustang .380 in the other, firing 11 rds at us. Both were loaded with FMJ. On the receiving end you couldn't tell the difference between the 2 calibers, they sounded the same indoors. He ended up shooting himself in the head with the .380. The rd entered in front of and just above the right ear, exited to the rear and just above the left ear, went thru the upholstering of a chair, went thru 1/2" drywall, and stopped in about 1" of 2X4 stud. We use to issue PPK to senior command who wanted them. Issued ammo was W-W Silvertip. One of our guys shot a subject at about arms length distance. Rd hit the guy center just below the rib cage and came to rest up against the spine. Investigated a few shootings where .380 was used but none of them hit vitals.

November 29, 2007, 12:18 PM	#15
SundownRider Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 509	Just shot my new (to me) Interarms Walther PPK 380 with Winchester WinFree ammo. Completely reliable for the 100 rounds I shot, no failures to feed, fire, or extract. Accuracy was incredible, and one handed shooting was equally impressive. Would have no hesitation carrying or defending. __________________ " Of every One-Hundred men, Ten shouldn't even be there, Eighty are nothing but targets, Nine are real fighters... We are lucky to have them...They make the battle. Ah, but the One, One of them is a Warrior... and He will bring the others back." - Heraclitus (circa 500 BC)

November 29, 2007, 02:19 PM	#16
obxned Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: OBX, NC Posts: 1,128	Most data from actual real world use shows that the JHPs give better results than the FMJs. Since these results are old, and while FMJs stay the same, JHPs keep improving, I will choose JHPs. I would be happy with any of the current production premium JHPs, but I like the DoubleTap Gold Dots best! __________________ “If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth.” Ronald Reagan I'm a proud member of a North Carolina *Committee of Safety*

November 29, 2007, 09:47 PM	#17
shotokan99 Member Join Date: December 26, 2005 Posts: 45	i read in some threads, that small pistols like bersa 380 has less fear factor compared to full-size 1911s. how true is this?

November 30, 2007, 05:14 PM	#19
Timeframe Member Join Date: July 16, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 64	Need to look at what Cor Bonn is bring out in defense ammo for smaller calibers.Suddenly my .380 Mak isn't so bad after all.

November 30, 2007, 08:43 PM	#20
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Interesting new options: http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#380 __________________ Jim March

December 1, 2007, 07:58 AM	#22
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	A buddy of mine was covering a detail for one of his company's security guards who called in sick one night many moons ago. The job was guarding a warehouse and he saw a guy stealing some stuff. He walked up to the perp, drew his Walter PPK in .380 and proudly announced, "I got you!!" Seconds later they were rolling on the ground, the perp pounding my buds head, screaming, "Who's got who, pig!!" My friend then fired two contact shots into the bad guys ribs, which prompted him to get to his feet, dust himself off and tell my bud, "You shouldn't be trying to scare someone with a damn cap gun" before walking out the door. Police found him lying in a pool of blood about 3 blocks from the crime scene, still very much alive. Soon after this my bud bought a 9mm S&W.

December 1, 2007, 09:19 AM	#23
MyGunsJammed Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: in a very anti-gun state :( Posts: 565	matthew temkin A buddy of mine was covering a detail for one of his company's security guards who called in sick one night many moons ago. The job was guarding a warehouse and he saw a guy stealing some stuff. He walked up to the perp, drew his Walter PPK in .380 and proudly announced, "I got you!!" Seconds later they were rolling on the ground, the perp pounding my buds head, screaming, "Who's got who, pig!!" My friend then fired two contact shots into the bad guys ribs, which prompted him to get to his feet, dust himself off and tell my bud, "You shouldn't be trying to scare someone with a damn cap gun" before walking out the door. Police found him lying in a pool of blood about 3 blocks from the crime scene, still very much alive. Soon after this my bud bought a 9mm S&W. This story was kinda funny lol....but sucks for your friend who got jumped though....

December 1, 2007, 11:55 AM	#24
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	I agree..he was also guilty of bad tactics. I prefer a .38 snub for concealment, yet I know of quite a few failure to stop instances with that caliber.

December 2, 2007, 09:53 PM	#25
shotokan99 Member Join Date: December 26, 2005 Posts: 45	sounds funny..but is it really true? why is there really a big difference when it comes to power between .380 and .38 coming from snub revo?