still confused

Doc Holliday 1950 · October 3, 2014, 10:56 PM

I'd like to hear what everyone has to say about this.
What 38 spec +P HP ammo has for either a 2" or 4 " revolver.
1- The lowest recoil.
2- Which ones would you use for Critical Defense.

This is driving me crazy. From what I can tell, Speer 135 gr.38spec+P is tops.
also Hornady 110 grain 38 special +P is very good.

lefty60 · October 4, 2014, 01:21 AM

I still prefer the good old +p 158 grain soft lead HP load. Some call it the NYPD or DETROIT load.

This load was used by thousands of Police Officers for many years. And has an extremely good performance history.

I believe that Federal, Remington, Winchester, and maybe CCI/SPEER still make these loads.

If you don't like this load, most any premium defense load should work fine.

Hope this helps you.

lamarw · October 4, 2014, 06:39 AM

What is your threat? Most .38 Special rounds will handle humans and predators or wild dogs. You might be a little under gunned if you are dealing with large hogs or bears.

I am one to adjust my firearm vs. my ammunition to the threat. You could easily step up to a .357 Magnum, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .44 Magnum if the .38 Special is too light. There are even larger rounds in big bores for the largest of American wildlife. Most would even recommend a big bore rifle or large gauge shotgun with appropriate shells like slugs.

Yankee Doodle · October 4, 2014, 06:52 AM

For whatever it's worth, I carry Speer 135s in my 642. I feel that this is the most potent load for SD available at this time without having to buy online. Others will most probably not agree.
However, if recoil is causing you problems, the answer is simple. Practice, a lot, with the ammo you intend to carry. Yeah, I know, it's expensive. Money well spent. You will get used to the recoil, and that will take care of that problem. A change of grips might also help. My 642 sports Hogue Bamtams, & I find this package to be just about perfect.
Like I said, "Whatever it's worth."

GyMac · October 4, 2014, 08:45 AM

I still prefer the good old +p 158 grain soft lead HP load. Some call it the NYPD or DETROIT load.

Me, too. I have Remington, but I'm pretty sure Buffalo Bore also loads this round. I also have some old CorBon 158 grain +P+ loads, but the bullet seems harder. BTW, when I fired the CorBons out of a K-38, I didn't especilly notice a lot of recoil. I expected more.

Snyper · October 4, 2014, 08:59 AM

Quote:

What 38 spec +P HP ammo has for either a 2" or 4 " revolver.
1- The lowest recoil.
2- Which ones would you use for Critical Defense.

If you know the specs on the loads, the recoil can be deduced with most any ballistics calculator

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

The one I would use for defense is the one that is most accurate in the gun, and shoots closest to point of aim if the sights are not adjustable

boondocker385 · October 4, 2014, 11:47 AM

I like heavy bullets...I go with 158s. ...

T. O'Heir · October 4, 2014, 03:38 PM

If recoil is an issue you should probably re-think +P's altogether.
"...soft lead HP..." Redundant thing. A lead bullet doesn't need a hollow point. It'll expand anyway.
"...used by thousands of Police Officers for many years..." And dumped as fast as they could. Ammo cops are allowed to carry has and had more to do with politics and legislation than anything else. Certain nothing to do with individual choice.

Cheapshooter · October 4, 2014, 04:22 PM

If recoil is your top concern you might want to consider this:
http://m.hornady.com/store/38-Specia...-Defense-lite/

Just don't let your buddies see the pink box!

My personal choice is Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135gr +P
It does quite well in ballistic gel/denim tests, and is very accurate in my Ruger LCR.
While still noticeably a +P load, the felt recoil seems a bit less than Winchester PDX1, or some Blazer 158gr. SWHP lead "FBI" rounds I have.

I have not yet shot the three over a my chronograph to see what the actual velocity is.

Doc Holliday 1950 · October 4, 2014, 04:24 PM

Snyper, thanks that chart really helps make sense of re-coil.
My revolvers are all 357's. My reason for 38+P's is full bore 357 mag 's are a bit to hard on my older hands. I also have Rem and Hornady 357mag 125 grain ammo. Everybody
advises one to watch out for flash and recoil at home in the dark or a situation like that. Only 2 things will make me shoot. A large dog or coyote( huge number where I live) or a human threat to home, life and family.
Everyones answers are very appreciated

Nick_C_S · October 4, 2014, 04:56 PM

I'm a big fan if Speer's 135 GDSB too. I think it's the best 38 Special factory defense round out there right now.

I have chronographed Speer's round in my 3" Model 686; and through my 4" Model 67. . .
955 fps, 273 ft/lbs through the 3"
1011 fps, 306 ft/lbs through the 4".

My second choice is the "Detroit PD": 158g swaged lead SWCHP. I load these myself and keep the powder charge within published load data.
921 fps, 325 ft/lbs through the 4".
I think this round is underrated and often overlooked because of its old low-tech design. But I would carry this round with a great deal of confidence.

jmr40 · October 5, 2014, 07:31 AM

At 38 speeds, especially from shorter barrels go heavy. Lighter bullets need speed to work that are not possible from such guns.

lee n. field · October 5, 2014, 06:06 PM

Quote:

I'd like to hear what everyone has to say about this.
What 38 spec +P HP ammo has for either a 2" or 4 " revolver.
1- The lowest recoil.

Short of shooting .357 Magnum through my snubbie, I don't notice the recoil. YMMV -- Mine are steel, not flyweight mystery metal guns, and have "big enough" rubber grips.

Quote:

2- Which ones would you use for Critical Defense.

Whatever I could find that would match my +P 158 grain LSWC handloads, which shoot dead to point of aim in my guns.

Quote:

My second choice is the "Detroit PD": 158g swaged lead SWCHP. I load these myself

Where do you get that bullet?

Snyper · October 5, 2014, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Where do you get that bullet?

Hornady makes one that fits the description

KyJim · October 5, 2014, 08:23 PM

Some of the lightest recoiling ammo I've shot from a .38 which is commonly available is Sellier and Bellot 148 gr. wadcutters. It is advertised at 699 fps (barrel length unknown). However, the late Stephen A. Camp measured the velocity at 607 fps from a four-inch SW Model 10 and 541 fps from a SW Model 642 with 1 and 7/8 inch barrel. http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/H...Protection.htm. That's not good for defense against humans but would be great for range practice or even small game if you hunt with a handgun.

diggler1833 · October 7, 2014, 06:13 AM

Typically lighter bullets in every caliber will cause the firearm to recoil less. With a .38 Spl however, I doubt you would really notice it.

There are a bunch of really good defensive rounds for the relatively anemic .38 Spl. A 4" barrel would be much more conducive to good bullet expansion and less blast/flash in your home at night, but the 2" version would obviously be easier to conceal. For good penetration, stick to the 158gr loads. For the best chance at expansion, lighter bullets will probably work better in your shorter barrel.

lee n. field · October 7, 2014, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Typically lighter bullets in every caliber will cause the firearm to recoil less. With a .38 Spl however, I doubt you would really notice it.

Where you notice it, is point of impact changes.

buck460XVR · October 7, 2014, 12:55 PM

Quote:

At 38 speeds, especially from shorter barrels go heavy.

Yep. I like 158s runnin' about 750fps. Fast enough to do the job, but not the harsh recoil outta the Air-Weight like the +p.

October 3, 2014, 10:56 PM	#1
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	still confused I'd like to hear what everyone has to say about this. What 38 spec +P HP ammo has for either a 2" or 4 " revolver. 1- The lowest recoil. 2- Which ones would you use for Critical Defense. This is driving me crazy. From what I can tell, Speer 135 gr.38spec+P is tops. also Hornady 110 grain 38 special +P is very good.

October 4, 2014, 11:47 AM	#7
boondocker385 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2013 Posts: 640	I like heavy bullets...I go with 158s. ... __________________ No second place finishes in a gun fight.

October 4, 2014, 03:38 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	If recoil is an issue you should probably re-think +P's altogether. "...soft lead HP..." Redundant thing. A lead bullet doesn't need a hollow point. It'll expand anyway. "...used by thousands of Police Officers for many years..." And dumped as fast as they could. Ammo cops are allowed to carry has and had more to do with politics and legislation than anything else. Certain nothing to do with individual choice. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 4, 2014, 04:22 PM	#9
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	If recoil is your top concern you might want to consider this: http://m.hornady.com/store/38-Specia...-Defense-lite/ Just don't let your buddies see the pink box! My personal choice is Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135gr +P It does quite well in ballistic gel/denim tests, and is very accurate in my Ruger LCR. While still noticeably a +P load, the felt recoil seems a bit less than Winchester PDX1, or some Blazer 158gr. SWHP lead "FBI" rounds I have. I have not yet shot the three over a my chronograph to see what the actual velocity is. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING! Last edited by Cheapshooter; October 4, 2014 at 04:39 PM.

October 4, 2014, 04:56 PM	#11
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	I'm a big fan if Speer's 135 GDSB too. I think it's the best 38 Special factory defense round out there right now. I have chronographed Speer's round in my 3" Model 686; and through my 4" Model 67. . . 955 fps, 273 ft/lbs through the 3" 1011 fps, 306 ft/lbs through the 4". My second choice is the "Detroit PD": 158g swaged lead SWCHP. I load these myself and keep the powder charge within published load data. 921 fps, 325 ft/lbs through the 4". I think this round is underrated and often overlooked because of its old low-tech design. But I would carry this round with a great deal of confidence. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

October 4, 2014, 01:21 AM	#2
lefty60 Member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Posts: 18	I still prefer the good old +p 158 grain soft lead HP load. Some call it the NYPD or DETROIT load. This load was used by thousands of Police Officers for many years. And has an extremely good performance history. I believe that Federal, Remington, Winchester, and maybe CCI/SPEER still make these loads. If you don't like this load, most any premium defense load should work fine. Hope this helps you.

October 4, 2014, 06:39 AM	#3
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	What is your threat? Most .38 Special rounds will handle humans and predators or wild dogs. You might be a little under gunned if you are dealing with large hogs or bears. I am one to adjust my firearm vs. my ammunition to the threat. You could easily step up to a .357 Magnum, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .44 Magnum if the .38 Special is too light. There are even larger rounds in big bores for the largest of American wildlife. Most would even recommend a big bore rifle or large gauge shotgun with appropriate shells like slugs.

October 4, 2014, 06:52 AM	#4
Yankee Doodle Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 619	For whatever it's worth, I carry Speer 135s in my 642. I feel that this is the most potent load for SD available at this time without having to buy online. Others will most probably not agree. However, if recoil is causing you problems, the answer is simple. Practice, a lot, with the ammo you intend to carry. Yeah, I know, it's expensive. Money well spent. You will get used to the recoil, and that will take care of that problem. A change of grips might also help. My 642 sports Hogue Bamtams, & I find this package to be just about perfect. Like I said, "Whatever it's worth."

October 4, 2014, 08:45 AM	#5
GyMac Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Posts: 189	I still prefer the good old +p 158 grain soft lead HP load. Some call it the NYPD or DETROIT load. Me, too. I have Remington, but I'm pretty sure Buffalo Bore also loads this round. I also have some old CorBon 158 grain +P+ loads, but the bullet seems harder. BTW, when I fired the CorBons out of a K-38, I didn't especilly notice a lot of recoil. I expected more.

October 4, 2014, 04:24 PM	#10
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	Snyper, thanks that chart really helps make sense of re-coil. My revolvers are all 357's. My reason for 38+P's is full bore 357 mag 's are a bit to hard on my older hands. I also have Rem and Hornady 357mag 125 grain ammo. Everybody advises one to watch out for flash and recoil at home in the dark or a situation like that. Only 2 things will make me shoot. A large dog or coyote( huge number where I live) or a human threat to home, life and family. Everyones answers are very appreciated

October 5, 2014, 07:31 AM	#12
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,808	At 38 speeds, especially from shorter barrels go heavy. Lighter bullets need speed to work that are not possible from such guns.

October 5, 2014, 08:23 PM	#15
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	Some of the lightest recoiling ammo I've shot from a .38 which is commonly available is Sellier and Bellot 148 gr. wadcutters. It is advertised at 699 fps (barrel length unknown). However, the late Stephen A. Camp measured the velocity at 607 fps from a four-inch SW Model 10 and 541 fps from a SW Model 642 with 1 and 7/8 inch barrel. http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/H...Protection.htm. That's not good for defense against humans but would be great for range practice or even small game if you hunt with a handgun.

October 7, 2014, 06:13 AM	#16
diggler1833 Member Join Date: October 6, 2014 Location: NC Posts: 56	Typically lighter bullets in every caliber will cause the firearm to recoil less. With a .38 Spl however, I doubt you would really notice it. There are a bunch of really good defensive rounds for the relatively anemic .38 Spl. A 4" barrel would be much more conducive to good bullet expansion and less blast/flash in your home at night, but the 2" version would obviously be easier to conceal. For good penetration, stick to the 158gr loads. For the best chance at expansion, lighter bullets will probably work better in your shorter barrel.