Prowler Incident [Scenario]

Cheapo · October 31, 2000, 01:23 PM

How would you folks handle this?

It's the early a.m. hours and still quite dark outside. You hear a single small impact noise outside the front of the house and listen for more, but hear nothing. At first.

After a minute, your HVAC system kicks off and you notice that the sound of an idling engine is also in front of the house. You secure your own room, check the other occupants of the house and find everyone asleep. Looking from the hallway through the living room, you see a car in the street, parked and with the driver's door opened. Its lights are all on and the interior lamp shows that no one is in the driver's seat (you are far enough above the street to see the seat, not just the seat-back).

Moving to view another window from your darkness-concealed position, you see what appears to be a man just outside the window, moving about and peering into the small (14-inch high) shrubbery beneath the window sill.

You see that he has a flashlight in one hand but cannot see his other hand. The flashlight is pointed down in the bushes and he is looking downward as he moves about. What do you do?

Christopher II · October 31, 2000, 01:49 PM

This guy sounds suspiciously like a meter reader. So far, all he's done is trespass. So I'd hold off on shooting him for now.

Call the cops on my cellphone and report an armed prowler. Make sure to describe yourself to the dispatcher, so the cops don't mistake you for the bad guy.

Next step is kind of uncertain. If the family sleeping area is seperate and easily defensible, I'd just get to a chokepoint (probably the top of the stairwell,) and wait (just in case he's NOT a meter reader.) If the BG tries to break in, I'd shout that I'm armed and the cops are on the way. He gets shot if he tries to climb the stairs. If not, he can explain to the cops why he tried to read the meter at 2:00am.

I wouldn't challenge the BG while he's outside. As long as he's outside, he's not an immediate threat.

Any other ideas? I know I've missed something...

Later,
Chris

------------------
"TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box

David Scott · October 31, 2000, 03:12 PM

Somebody looking for his cat?

I'd arm myself, call 911 and continue to observe the guy.

voodoo · October 31, 2000, 05:29 PM

I'd sit and observe for a while, at least until I thought things might get hairy. At that point, I call 911 and report an armed prowler. My wife gets her Glock and cordless phone and heads to the "safe" room. I grab my HK Tactical, sit, and wait for the fun to begin.

My house is well light outside, so he'll get blasted with one of several floodlights. "If" he can scale the high fences and get to the side/back yards, he's gets to meet my dog.

I'd also call my neighbor who lives across the way, who has a perfect view of my house. I'd ask them to keep a look out, and try to get a description of the car.

[This message has been edited by voodoo (edited October 31, 2000).]

Joe Demko · October 31, 2000, 08:21 PM

I'm with the call 911 and wait (armed!) inside the house group. Contine to observe him without revealing myself. Stay on the line with 911.

iso1 · November 2, 2000, 07:34 AM

At the first sound, I'm already armed (.38 Special revolver with Fed. Hydra.). My wife is awake, and we go to the baby's room together. I clear the room ahead of her, and she takes the baby into our bedroom, our "safe room". She then puts the baby on our bed, and arms herself with a .38 special and a cell phone. I then clear the rest of the house. On spotting said person, I tell my wife to call the police, then continue to watch him, weapon at the ready. If he tries to come in, so solly, Mister Badman, but you just became a statistic. If not, I try to get as much info as I can to pass on to police.

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Cheapo · November 2, 2000, 11:11 PM

Why is *anyone* calling to report an *armed* prowler?

You have not seen his other hand yet.

What if his other hand is empty?

Critique: (Yeah, who am I to comment?) Good responses in that no one sees a need to engage the person and escalate a situation with many unknown factors.

Ah, to spur the discussion on!

Gary H · November 2, 2000, 11:44 PM

Outside of the house this person gets a pass. I would certainly monitor the situation, but that would be it.

twist996 · November 3, 2000, 11:25 AM

report him as possibly armed, so police responding have an idea of what's going on...might hasten their arrival just a bit, also...also indicates your mindset: armed intruder, attacking me/mine...useful for he court case if you do have to shoot him...

------------------
speak now, or forever hold your peace

Christopher II · November 3, 2000, 01:34 PM

I'd report an armed prowler simply because it will get a faster police response than, "Someone's in my backyard..."

Besides, he might be armed. We don't know for sure. So why not err on the side of caution, both for yourself and for the responding officers.

Later,
Chris

Cheapo · November 3, 2000, 05:12 PM

In most states, giving law enforcement a false report is a misdemeanor. If the fellow turns out to be unarmed but suffers from some over-enthusiastic arrest activities, you may also become a defendant in a false arrest/false imprisonment lawsuit.

Then you'll feel quite silly in a deposition when they start asking you,

"and WHAT did you see in his OTHER hand?" and
"So, you DIDN'T see his other hand?" and

"But you told the 911 operator that the plaintiff was ARMED??!!"

Oh, maybe you'll just lie. Even presidents get caught at that. Some are just better at escaping the consequences...

Err on the side of caution, but NOT to the point of lying, okay?

Christopher II · November 3, 2000, 05:59 PM

I saw the flashlight in his hand. I've been hit with a flashlight, and it's no fun.

You make a good point, but still, as far as I'm concerned, all potential BGs on my property are armed until proven otherwise.

Later,
Chris

------------------
"TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box

nbk2000 · November 5, 2000, 04:42 AM

I've had a few uninvited night time visitors where I've lived and the way that's always worked for me is to yell out very suddenly "Get the F*** off my property!".

Then light 'em up with a million candlepower spotlight. If they got any brains they split, armed or not, because you obviously got the drop on them.

If anything you've certainly made it clear that you know they're there and that they are not invited to stay.

fubsy · November 5, 2000, 08:59 AM

Id most likely turn the automatic sprikler system from auto to manual and watch him run.......of course the plants with thorns under my windows might retain evidence of his trespass, and that cheapo radio shack video camera system would probably give us enough film for laughter on those boring evenings....lol...fubsy.

Cheapo · November 5, 2000, 02:55 PM

Congratulations. Many of us have prepared to grease the newspaper delivery guy as he looks for the paper than missed your doorstep.

Congratulations. All of us have enough skepticism to be prepared if this is a felon looking for a "mark" while posing as the paper guy.

Debriefing: This was me, a while back. Setting up the scenario, I forgot to specify that "early A.M." hours while still dark was about 6:15 a.m. in that part of the country. That would apparently make a difference for only one response. You see no papers in the cab of the car because your house is the LAST delivery on my route.

Observation from the real event: About 15 seconds before the homeowner spoke up through the window, I was thinking "this could look really bad" and reflected that it was a good thing that I was in an extremely low-crime area filled with rather amiable residents. This may have been the psychic or spiritual element giving me a clue that I was being observed. Condition white? NOT!! I was very, very aware of my surroundings, but the interior of the house was too dark to see anything from that quarter.

Aftermath: HO asked from concealment "what's the problem," I told him his paper was somewhere in those bushes, and he asked me to quit trying to make it on the doorstep from the street--driveway was Okay for him (he had on other occasions seen me get out of the car to correct the 25% miss rate I had racked up).

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October 31, 2000, 01:23 PM	#1
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	How would you folks handle this? It's the early a.m. hours and still quite dark outside. You hear a single small impact noise outside the front of the house and listen for more, but hear nothing. At first. After a minute, your HVAC system kicks off and you notice that the sound of an idling engine is also in front of the house. You secure your own room, check the other occupants of the house and find everyone asleep. Looking from the hallway through the living room, you see a car in the street, parked and with the driver's door opened. Its lights are all on and the interior lamp shows that no one is in the driver's seat (you are far enough above the street to see the seat, not just the seat-back). Moving to view another window from your darkness-concealed position, you see what appears to be a man just outside the window, moving about and peering into the small (14-inch high) shrubbery beneath the window sill. You see that he has a flashlight in one hand but cannot see his other hand. The flashlight is pointed down in the bushes and he is looking downward as he moves about. What do you do?

October 31, 2000, 01:49 PM	#2
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	This guy sounds suspiciously like a meter reader. So far, all he's done is trespass. So I'd hold off on shooting him for now. Call the cops on my cellphone and report an armed prowler. Make sure to describe yourself to the dispatcher, so the cops don't mistake you for the bad guy. Next step is kind of uncertain. If the family sleeping area is seperate and easily defensible, I'd just get to a chokepoint (probably the top of the stairwell,) and wait (just in case he's NOT a meter reader.) If the BG tries to break in, I'd shout that I'm armed and the cops are on the way. He gets shot if he tries to climb the stairs. If not, he can explain to the cops why he tried to read the meter at 2:00am. I wouldn't challenge the BG while he's outside. As long as he's outside, he's not an immediate threat. Any other ideas? I know I've missed something... Later, Chris ------------------ "TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box

October 31, 2000, 03:12 PM	#3
David Scott Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2000 Posts: 2,456	Somebody looking for his cat? I'd arm myself, call 911 and continue to observe the guy.

October 31, 2000, 05:29 PM	#4
voodoo Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Posts: 140	I'd sit and observe for a while, at least until I thought things might get hairy. At that point, I call 911 and report an armed prowler. My wife gets her Glock and cordless phone and heads to the "safe" room. I grab my HK Tactical, sit, and wait for the fun to begin. My house is well light outside, so he'll get blasted with one of several floodlights. "If" he can scale the high fences and get to the side/back yards, he's gets to meet my dog. I'd also call my neighbor who lives across the way, who has a perfect view of my house. I'd ask them to keep a look out, and try to get a description of the car. [This message has been edited by voodoo (edited October 31, 2000).]

October 31, 2000, 08:21 PM	#5
Joe Demko Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2000 Posts: 1,143	I'm with the call 911 and wait (armed!) inside the house group. Contine to observe him without revealing myself. Stay on the line with 911.

November 2, 2000, 07:34 AM	#6
iso1 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 573	At the first sound, I'm already armed (.38 Special revolver with Fed. Hydra.). My wife is awake, and we go to the baby's room together. I clear the room ahead of her, and she takes the baby into our bedroom, our "safe room". She then puts the baby on our bed, and arms herself with a .38 special and a cell phone. I then clear the rest of the house. On spotting said person, I tell my wife to call the police, then continue to watch him, weapon at the ready. If he tries to come in, so solly, Mister Badman, but you just became a statistic. If not, I try to get as much info as I can to pass on to police. ------------------

November 2, 2000, 11:11 PM	#7
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Why is anyone calling to report an armed prowler? You have not seen his other hand yet. What if his other hand is empty? Critique: (Yeah, who am I to comment?) Good responses in that no one sees a need to engage the person and escalate a situation with many unknown factors. Ah, to spur the discussion on!

November 2, 2000, 11:44 PM	#8
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	Outside of the house this person gets a pass. I would certainly monitor the situation, but that would be it.

November 3, 2000, 11:25 AM	#9
twist996 Member Join Date: October 20, 2000 Posts: 85	report him as possibly armed, so police responding have an idea of what's going on...might hasten their arrival just a bit, also...also indicates your mindset: armed intruder, attacking me/mine...useful for he court case if you do have to shoot him... ------------------ speak now, or forever hold your peace

November 3, 2000, 01:34 PM	#10
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	I'd report an armed prowler simply because it will get a faster police response than, "Someone's in my backyard..." Besides, he might be armed. We don't know for sure. So why not err on the side of caution, both for yourself and for the responding officers. Later, Chris

November 3, 2000, 05:12 PM	#11
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	In most states, giving law enforcement a false report is a misdemeanor. If the fellow turns out to be unarmed but suffers from some over-enthusiastic arrest activities, you may also become a defendant in a false arrest/false imprisonment lawsuit. Then you'll feel quite silly in a deposition when they start asking you, "and WHAT did you see in his OTHER hand?" and "So, you DIDN'T see his other hand?" and "But you told the 911 operator that the plaintiff was ARMED??!!" Oh, maybe you'll just lie. Even presidents get caught at that. Some are just better at escaping the consequences... Err on the side of caution, but NOT to the point of lying, okay?

November 3, 2000, 05:59 PM	#12
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	I saw the flashlight in his hand. I've been hit with a flashlight, and it's no fun. You make a good point, but still, as far as I'm concerned, all potential BGs on my property are armed until proven otherwise. Later, Chris ------------------ "TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box

November 5, 2000, 04:42 AM	#13
nbk2000 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2000 Posts: 216	I've had a few uninvited night time visitors where I've lived and the way that's always worked for me is to yell out very suddenly "Get the F*** off my property!". Then light 'em up with a million candlepower spotlight. If they got any brains they split, armed or not, because you obviously got the drop on them. If anything you've certainly made it clear that you know they're there and that they are not invited to stay.

November 5, 2000, 08:59 AM	#14
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	Id most likely turn the automatic sprikler system from auto to manual and watch him run.......of course the plants with thorns under my windows might retain evidence of his trespass, and that cheapo radio shack video camera system would probably give us enough film for laughter on those boring evenings....lol...fubsy.

November 5, 2000, 02:55 PM	#15
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Congratulations. Many of us have prepared to grease the newspaper delivery guy as he looks for the paper than missed your doorstep. Congratulations. All of us have enough skepticism to be prepared if this is a felon looking for a "mark" while posing as the paper guy. Debriefing: This was me, a while back. Setting up the scenario, I forgot to specify that "early A.M." hours while still dark was about 6:15 a.m. in that part of the country. That would apparently make a difference for only one response. You see no papers in the cab of the car because your house is the LAST delivery on my route. Observation from the real event: About 15 seconds before the homeowner spoke up through the window, I was thinking "this could look really bad" and reflected that it was a good thing that I was in an extremely low-crime area filled with rather amiable residents. This may have been the psychic or spiritual element giving me a clue that I was being observed. Condition white? NOT!! I was very, very aware of my surroundings, but the interior of the house was too dark to see anything from that quarter. Aftermath: HO asked from concealment "what's the problem," I told him his paper was somewhere in those bushes, and he asked me to quit trying to make it on the doorstep from the street--driveway was Okay for him (he had on other occasions seen me get out of the car to correct the 25% miss rate I had racked up).