copper jacket deforming ?

rebs · October 30, 2016, 08:03 AM

I am loading some Midsouth Shooters 55 gr varmint nightmare premium hp's and found that a few of them were deformed by the seating die. They have a slight ring mark around the ogive. Is this going to effect accuracy ? Is the jacket too thin or is this a problem with my seating die ?

mikld · October 30, 2016, 10:47 AM

Probably just a "misfit" of the seating stem to the ogive. You can polish the stem where it meets the bullet of just shoot 'em. Unless the bullets are deformed rather than just marked, there should be no problems.

5whiskey · October 30, 2016, 10:49 AM

Rebs is it just some light surface marking? Or is it definitely gouged into the jacket (run a very thin feeler gauge over it and if it catches and hangs, its gouged). I've had the seating plug leave some light marks on projectiles before, but it was just light surface marking. They shot fine and were accurate, holding slightly less than 1moa being bulk hornady rounds... Which is about as good of accuracy as can be expected from bulk rounds.

If it is a deep gouge, I would take the seating die apart and inspect it. Even copper washed bullets should keep that thin plating intact from the seating process

**Unclenick** · October 30, 2016, 11:14 AM

Rebs, if you have a recovered bullet from the berm of your range, compare the depth of the rifling marks to the seating mark on your bullet. Rifling marks are too shallow to affect ballistics because they are shallower than the air boundary layer that forms over the flying bullet. If your nose deformity is shallower than a rifling groove, you are good to go. The exception would be if the deformation bent the tip of the bullet and introduced runout. That would move the center of gravity of the bullet off its longitudinal axis, which opens groups up.

rebs · October 30, 2016, 02:31 PM

They are not gouged, just marked with a very slight indentation. The jacket is not cut and no lead core is exposed

603Country · October 30, 2016, 06:02 PM

A while back, I pulled a bunch (100's) of 223 bullets. I used an RCBS collet type puller, and it left some significant dents around the upper third of the bullet. I loaded them up, intending for them to be plinker rounds for the grandkids, then used some for foulers. They shot very well, and pretty much as well as the indented bullets. I can't really say they shot worse.

**Unclenick** · October 31, 2016, 08:58 AM

Usually, as long as the bullet is not deformed at the base or, for a boattail, at the shoulder of the boattail coming off the bearing surface, it will still shoot OK. I have some pulled M2 Ball bullets that have pretty severe and irregular bearing surface narrowing due to an over-deep (IMHO) factory collet type crimp. They still shoot about 2.5 moa. 2 moa for some, if you sort the bases to get ones made by the same machinery. If you shoot well, it's still reliable minute of enemy soldier for hundreds of yards.

rebs · November 1, 2016, 04:04 PM

I shot those bullets today at 100 yds, they grouped under one inch. So,the marks in them made no difference. A few of them had something stuck in the hollow point and that didn't make any difference either. I cannot tell which is more accurate these or the Hornady soft points, it's a toss up.

T. O'Heir · November 2, 2016, 01:10 PM

"...going to effect accuracy?..." No. The only part of the bullet that matters is the base. You may have the wrong seating plug installed, but that really makes no difference.

condor bravo · November 2, 2016, 06:48 PM

As mikld said, that slight ring around the ogive circumference is usually caused by the somewhat sharp edge of the seating stem and the mouth of the stem could be smoothed out if desired. That is somewhat of a common occurrence and hardly of any concern.

F. Guffey · November 3, 2016, 10:32 AM

Quote:

I am loading some Midsouth Shooters 55 gr varmint nightmare premium hp's and found that a few of them were deformed by the seating die. They have a slight ring mark around the ogive. Is this going to effect accuracy ? Is the jacket too thin or is this a problem with my seating die ?

There is a difference between a waist and a ring, I am not a fan of being kind to my bullets when making measurements. There is no end to the different kind/types of seating plugs I have, if the deforming is happening while seating I would think the amount of effort when seating is not uniform meaning more effort is required to seat on some cases than others.

F. Guffey

rebs · November 4, 2016, 04:56 AM

Quote:

There is a difference between a waist and a ring, I am not a fan of being kind to my bullets when making measurements. There is no end to the different kind/types of seating plugs I have, if the deforming is happening while seating I would think the amount of effort when seating is not uniform meaning more effort is required to seat on some cases than others.

F. Guffey

you are right, they don't all do it just the ones that are harder to seat. It does not happen with Hornady soft points so I am thinking the jacket on the varmint nightmares is thinner. Also possibly the lead in the bullet is softer as well.

October 30, 2016, 08:03 AM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	copper jacket deforming ? I am loading some Midsouth Shooters 55 gr varmint nightmare premium hp's and found that a few of them were deformed by the seating die. They have a slight ring mark around the ogive. Is this going to effect accuracy ? Is the jacket too thin or is this a problem with my seating die ?

October 30, 2016, 10:47 AM	#2
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Probably just a "misfit" of the seating stem to the ogive. You can polish the stem where it meets the bullet of just shoot 'em. Unless the bullets are deformed rather than just marked, there should be no problems. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

October 30, 2016, 11:14 AM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,076	Rebs, if you have a recovered bullet from the berm of your range, compare the depth of the rifling marks to the seating mark on your bullet. Rifling marks are too shallow to affect ballistics because they are shallower than the air boundary layer that forms over the flying bullet. If your nose deformity is shallower than a rifling groove, you are good to go. The exception would be if the deformation bent the tip of the bullet and introduced runout. That would move the center of gravity of the bullet off its longitudinal axis, which opens groups up. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 31, 2016, 08:58 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,076	Usually, as long as the bullet is not deformed at the base or, for a boattail, at the shoulder of the boattail coming off the bearing surface, it will still shoot OK. I have some pulled M2 Ball bullets that have pretty severe and irregular bearing surface narrowing due to an over-deep (IMHO) factory collet type crimp. They still shoot about 2.5 moa. 2 moa for some, if you sort the bases to get ones made by the same machinery. If you shoot well, it's still reliable minute of enemy soldier for hundreds of yards. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 2, 2016, 01:10 PM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...going to effect accuracy?..." No. The only part of the bullet that matters is the base. You may have the wrong seating plug installed, but that really makes no difference. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 30, 2016, 10:49 AM	#3
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,667	Rebs is it just some light surface marking? Or is it definitely gouged into the jacket (run a very thin feeler gauge over it and if it catches and hangs, its gouged). I've had the seating plug leave some light marks on projectiles before, but it was just light surface marking. They shot fine and were accurate, holding slightly less than 1moa being bulk hornady rounds... Which is about as good of accuracy as can be expected from bulk rounds. If it is a deep gouge, I would take the seating die apart and inspect it. Even copper washed bullets should keep that thin plating intact from the seating process

October 30, 2016, 02:31 PM	#5
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	They are not gouged, just marked with a very slight indentation. The jacket is not cut and no lead core is exposed

October 30, 2016, 06:02 PM	#6
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 4,000	A while back, I pulled a bunch (100's) of 223 bullets. I used an RCBS collet type puller, and it left some significant dents around the upper third of the bullet. I loaded them up, intending for them to be plinker rounds for the grandkids, then used some for foulers. They shot very well, and pretty much as well as the indented bullets. I can't really say they shot worse.

November 1, 2016, 04:04 PM	#8
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I shot those bullets today at 100 yds, they grouped under one inch. So,the marks in them made no difference. A few of them had something stuck in the hollow point and that didn't make any difference either. I cannot tell which is more accurate these or the Hornady soft points, it's a toss up.

November 2, 2016, 06:48 PM	#10
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	As mikld said, that slight ring around the ogive circumference is usually caused by the somewhat sharp edge of the seating stem and the mouth of the stem could be smoothed out if desired. That is somewhat of a common occurrence and hardly of any concern. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??