Refinishing a wood stock - Page 2

tango1niner · April 4, 2012, 07:04 AM

oneoldsap is dead on. Your stock is not sealed yet. As he so eloquently put it " MORE OIL "! Your stock is sealed when it looks smooth, with little or no surface texture from the wood grain. If it is too shiny for you hit it with 4/0 steel wool and a final coat of Johnsons PASTE floor wax. Tru-oil is my choice for an oil finish. Don't forget the places you don't see like the barrel channel, under the butt plate, anywhere moisture can get in.

603Country · April 4, 2012, 06:34 PM

Just because the surface of the wood isn't completely smooth doesn't mean that the oil hasn't penetrated enough to seal the wood. For instance, if you took an open grained wood gunstock (Walnut has some open grain, but isn't real bad about it) and put it in an oil bath for 2 weeks, to let the maximum amount of oil penetrate the wood, and then let the oil dry (would take probably a month to dry completely), the wood would be effectively sealed, but the open grain would still show. Just the oil penetration would not smooth the wood out. That's where the wet sanding with the fine grit comes in. You fill the holes slowly with the oil/wood dust mixture until the surface is smooth. Both ways are effectively and equally sealed against moisture penetration, though the smooth wood is much prettier.

Linseed oil, as good as it is, will not prevent some water absorption by the wood. That's why you should occasionally put a few drops of oil on your hands and work it into the stock.

Jo6pak · April 4, 2012, 07:44 PM

The stock on my K98 is laminated. When I sanded, I did so just to dewhisker the grain and took off very little of the surface.

On the first coat of BLO, I could tell it was penetrating a little. The second coat didn't really soak in much at all, so I figured that a final hand-ribbed coat was all that was needed.
If 60 years of use and storage only raised the grain as much as it was, then I think I should be good for another 60 at least. (if I live to 100.)

I'll hit it periodically with some more BLO and see how it holds up.

oneoldsap · April 5, 2012, 05:44 PM

You should thin your first coats with Mineral Spirits , to enhance penetration !

Jo6pak · April 5, 2012, 08:59 PM

OK, I'll try that on my shotgun stock, which I'm doing next.

The Swede is going to get re-assembled this weekend, (after 5 applications)then I'm doing my Rem 870. Which will get extra coats, since it's my upland gun and gets alot of wet, snowy, soggy use.

At this rate I'll have all my wood stocks refinished by the time I stop

EmptyHull · April 5, 2012, 09:18 PM

I used acetone with 0000 steel wool then Formby's Tung Oil which is really a varnish. I sand with 0000 steel wool, blow the dust off with an air compressor and apply 6 to 8 coats. I sand between each coat with 0000 steel wool. I like High Gloss but also comes in semi gloss and satin. Excellent product. Tim

Chris_B · April 7, 2012, 06:29 PM

Hope you wore gloves, Tim

Steel wool will leave little bits of steel in the grain- I just proved it again (as if I needed to do it yet again

) today. Even lightly rubbing a black walnut stock with 0000 steel wool left bits, and I changed the steel wool often. All I wanted to do was remove some type of varnish-like finish from an old stock to prep for a BLO finish, and was using odorless mineral spirits. Two hours and I'm only half done...

Anyway, I reverted back to my old stand-by: very fine scotchbrite. I'll be getting a needle and a magnifying glass to pick out a few bits of steel wool tomorrow morning.

To each his own but I won't try steel wool ever again

oneoldsap · April 8, 2012, 09:42 AM

Wipe with a Tack cloth after rubbing with steel wool , and after sanding ! The problem with the scotch pads is , they scratch like crazy .

Chris_B · April 8, 2012, 10:29 AM

Respectfully, that may be your experience but it is not mine; I have no alternative but to presume that you're scratching something on top of the wood.

I find no scratches in American walnut after using scotchbrite, with or without a lubricant such as boiled linseed oil or mineral spirits, or when dry. I've spent the morning doing this, dry. I have no special technique, although maybe I have an advantage because I was trained to do bodywork in a pro shop when I was a kid, and I'm good at it; I know when to stop and when to not stop, if you take my meaning. I rub by hand in circular patterns, with fairly light pressure. I don't 'scrub' the wood. I use very fine scotchbrite. It takes some time but I like the results.

On the previous page is a Walnut stock that I finished by sanding 150 grit down to 600 grit, then with Very Fine Scotchbrite, then with a few dozen coats of boiled linseed oil. You will note no scratches. Here is a photo of the stock I've worked over the last two days with scotchbrite; this morning I used it dry. No scratches. Here's a close-up photo of the results. I'm oiling in about 15 minutes.

603Country · April 8, 2012, 12:06 PM

If a fella goes through the sandpaper grits, say 150 to 220 to 320 to 400 to 600, and at each grit he makes sure that scratches from the previous grit are removed, by the time he gets finished at 600 grit there aren't any visible scratches. Any finer grit than that is probably wasted if he's working walnut. Certainly you can go finer than that, and if you are wet sanding, the dust/oil will go into the pores of the wood and eventually close them up. You could also accomplish that with 400 or 600 grit. The trick is to not pull the dust/oil mix out of the pores when you wipe off the excess oil.

As for which oil to use, in the past I used Boiled Linseed Oil. Nowadays I'll usually grab the can of Minwax Antique Oil. It's similar to tung oils and danish oils, in that they are a mix of Mineral Spirits, BLO, and varnish, though the percentages of each vary by brand. You don't even need to buy a can if you have all 3 of the ingredients mentioned. You can mix up your own, and you can get the recipes off the internet. None of these will be waterproof, but they will be water resistant. I use the Antique Oil because a fellow I know that taught woodworking for 35 years said that he always thought that Antique Oil gave the best finish. That was good enough info for me. Is it the best? Heck, I don't know, but I do like using it. It's faster than doing the stock in BLO and it gives a nice soft satin look finish (which probably all of the wiping varnishes/tung oil/danish oil will give). And you can wet sand with it. The more coats, the more shine. The first coat looks terrible. Second coat looks good, and successive coats look even better. Not much point in going past 5 coats or so.

Mr.Bluster · April 8, 2012, 12:32 PM

Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. So good I use it on furniture. Yes, lots of coats. Take yer time.

Chris_B · April 8, 2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

If a fella goes through the sandpaper grits, say 150 to 220 to 320 to 400 to 600, and at each grit he makes sure that scratches from the previous grit are removed, by the time he gets finished at 600 grit there aren't any visible scratches.

If this is in response to my technique and use of scotchbrite, I must emphatically assert that I didn't sand this one shown on this page. At all. I stated that the photo on the previous page showed a stock in which I employed sandpaper before scotchbrite. The lack of scratches in the photo on this page has nothing to do with sandpaper grit on this stock as none was used.

603Country · April 8, 2012, 03:46 PM

ChrisB, I wasn't commenting on your use of scotchbrite but was only pointing out that an extremely smooth wood surface can be reached with regular sandpaper. Going past a 600 grit with something even less abrasive is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, though probably 600 grit would be enough for most folks. At 600 grit I think we've hit the level where we are polishing as much as abrading. When I'm sanding things on the wood lathe, when I get to 600 I start to see the wood beginning to actually shine.

Regarding the use by some folks of steel wool, I rarely would use that on bare wood, though if a water based finish isn't used, the steel wool shouldn't cause any problems, particularly if a tack cloth is used to remove the remaining bits of the steel wool.

April 4, 2012, 07:04 AM	#26
tango1niner Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: NY Posts: 317	oneoldsap is dead on. Your stock is not sealed yet. As he so eloquently put it " MORE OIL "! Your stock is sealed when it looks smooth, with little or no surface texture from the wood grain. If it is too shiny for you hit it with 4/0 steel wool and a final coat of Johnsons PASTE floor wax. Tru-oil is my choice for an oil finish. Don't forget the places you don't see like the barrel channel, under the butt plate, anywhere moisture can get in. Last edited by tango1niner; April 4, 2012 at 03:43 PM.

April 4, 2012, 07:44 PM	#28
Jo6pak Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: West Coast...of WI Posts: 1,663	The stock on my K98 is laminated. When I sanded, I did so just to dewhisker the grain and took off very little of the surface. On the first coat of BLO, I could tell it was penetrating a little. The second coat didn't really soak in much at all, so I figured that a final hand-ribbed coat was all that was needed. If 60 years of use and storage only raised the grain as much as it was, then I think I should be good for another 60 at least. (if I live to 100.) I'll hit it periodically with some more BLO and see how it holds up. __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.

April 5, 2012, 05:44 PM	#29
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	THIN You should thin your first coats with Mineral Spirits , to enhance penetration !

April 5, 2012, 08:59 PM	#30
Jo6pak Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: West Coast...of WI Posts: 1,663	OK, I'll try that on my shotgun stock, which I'm doing next. The Swede is going to get re-assembled this weekend, (after 5 applications)then I'm doing my Rem 870. Which will get extra coats, since it's my upland gun and gets alot of wet, snowy, soggy use. At this rate I'll have all my wood stocks refinished by the time I stop __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.

April 5, 2012, 09:18 PM	#31
EmptyHull Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 145	I used acetone with 0000 steel wool then Formby's Tung Oil which is really a varnish. I sand with 0000 steel wool, blow the dust off with an air compressor and apply 6 to 8 coats. I sand between each coat with 0000 steel wool. I like High Gloss but also comes in semi gloss and satin. Excellent product. Tim __________________ uva uvam videndo varia fit

April 4, 2012, 06:34 PM	#27
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Just because the surface of the wood isn't completely smooth doesn't mean that the oil hasn't penetrated enough to seal the wood. For instance, if you took an open grained wood gunstock (Walnut has some open grain, but isn't real bad about it) and put it in an oil bath for 2 weeks, to let the maximum amount of oil penetrate the wood, and then let the oil dry (would take probably a month to dry completely), the wood would be effectively sealed, but the open grain would still show. Just the oil penetration would not smooth the wood out. That's where the wet sanding with the fine grit comes in. You fill the holes slowly with the oil/wood dust mixture until the surface is smooth. Both ways are effectively and equally sealed against moisture penetration, though the smooth wood is much prettier. Linseed oil, as good as it is, will not prevent some water absorption by the wood. That's why you should occasionally put a few drops of oil on your hands and work it into the stock.

April 7, 2012, 06:29 PM	#32
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Hope you wore gloves, Tim Steel wool will leave little bits of steel in the grain- I just proved it again (as if I needed to do it yet again ) today. Even lightly rubbing a black walnut stock with 0000 steel wool left bits, and I changed the steel wool often. All I wanted to do was remove some type of varnish-like finish from an old stock to prep for a BLO finish, and was using odorless mineral spirits. Two hours and I'm only half done... Anyway, I reverted back to my old stand-by: very fine scotchbrite. I'll be getting a needle and a magnifying glass to pick out a few bits of steel wool tomorrow morning. To each his own but I won't try steel wool ever again

April 8, 2012, 09:42 AM	#33
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	Tack Cloth Wipe with a Tack cloth after rubbing with steel wool , and after sanding ! The problem with the scotch pads is , they scratch like crazy .

April 8, 2012, 10:29 AM	#34
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Respectfully, that may be your experience but it is not mine; I have no alternative but to presume that you're scratching something on top of the wood. I find no scratches in American walnut after using scotchbrite, with or without a lubricant such as boiled linseed oil or mineral spirits, or when dry. I've spent the morning doing this, dry. I have no special technique, although maybe I have an advantage because I was trained to do bodywork in a pro shop when I was a kid, and I'm good at it; I know when to stop and when to not stop, if you take my meaning. I rub by hand in circular patterns, with fairly light pressure. I don't 'scrub' the wood. I use very fine scotchbrite. It takes some time but I like the results. On the previous page is a Walnut stock that I finished by sanding 150 grit down to 600 grit, then with Very Fine Scotchbrite, then with a few dozen coats of boiled linseed oil. You will note no scratches. Here is a photo of the stock I've worked over the last two days with scotchbrite; this morning I used it dry. No scratches. Here's a close-up photo of the results. I'm oiling in about 15 minutes. Last edited by Chris_B; April 8, 2012 at 10:47 AM.

April 8, 2012, 12:06 PM	#35
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	If a fella goes through the sandpaper grits, say 150 to 220 to 320 to 400 to 600, and at each grit he makes sure that scratches from the previous grit are removed, by the time he gets finished at 600 grit there aren't any visible scratches. Any finer grit than that is probably wasted if he's working walnut. Certainly you can go finer than that, and if you are wet sanding, the dust/oil will go into the pores of the wood and eventually close them up. You could also accomplish that with 400 or 600 grit. The trick is to not pull the dust/oil mix out of the pores when you wipe off the excess oil. As for which oil to use, in the past I used Boiled Linseed Oil. Nowadays I'll usually grab the can of Minwax Antique Oil. It's similar to tung oils and danish oils, in that they are a mix of Mineral Spirits, BLO, and varnish, though the percentages of each vary by brand. You don't even need to buy a can if you have all 3 of the ingredients mentioned. You can mix up your own, and you can get the recipes off the internet. None of these will be waterproof, but they will be water resistant. I use the Antique Oil because a fellow I know that taught woodworking for 35 years said that he always thought that Antique Oil gave the best finish. That was good enough info for me. Is it the best? Heck, I don't know, but I do like using it. It's faster than doing the stock in BLO and it gives a nice soft satin look finish (which probably all of the wiping varnishes/tung oil/danish oil will give). And you can wet sand with it. The more coats, the more shine. The first coat looks terrible. Second coat looks good, and successive coats look even better. Not much point in going past 5 coats or so.

April 8, 2012, 12:32 PM	#36
Mr.Bluster Member Join Date: April 24, 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 28	Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. So good I use it on furniture. Yes, lots of coats. Take yer time.

April 8, 2012, 03:46 PM	#38
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	ChrisB, I wasn't commenting on your use of scotchbrite but was only pointing out that an extremely smooth wood surface can be reached with regular sandpaper. Going past a 600 grit with something even less abrasive is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, though probably 600 grit would be enough for most folks. At 600 grit I think we've hit the level where we are polishing as much as abrading. When I'm sanding things on the wood lathe, when I get to 600 I start to see the wood beginning to actually shine. Regarding the use by some folks of steel wool, I rarely would use that on bare wood, though if a water based finish isn't used, the steel wool shouldn't cause any problems, particularly if a tack cloth is used to remove the remaining bits of the steel wool.