Feral piglet question - Page 3

Art Eatman · June 10, 2013, 09:36 AM

I know that at one time, biologists claimed that domestic (short-nosed) hogs, once gone feral via escape from pens, would regress to the more primitive long-nosed type within a very few generations. The type-appearance would begin to show by the fourth generation.

I dunno. That's from reading about east Texas "piney woods rooters", maybe forty years back.

thallub · June 10, 2013, 10:43 AM

Quote:

I know that at one time, biologists claimed that domestic (short-nosed) hogs, once gone feral via escape from pens, would regress to the more primitive long-nosed type within a very few generations. The type-appearance would begin to show by the fourth generation.

Methinks that is correct. The offspring of hogs in WV that the avoided the lumber camp kitchens 80-100 years ago have long noses, narrow hams, long hair and wide shoulders.

This very old boar hog was killed in South central OK. His teeth were so worn he could not eat corn. Methinks he's a second generation or later hog. The hog had not been neutered. His small fangs were about 1/4" in diameter.

hogdogs · June 11, 2013, 09:54 AM

Short nose and broad shoulders with short legs make for a "power feeder" at the slop trough...

They can take up a wider spot while having leverage to lean on their trough mate to get even more...

Feral pigs need the long snout, narrow head and shoulders and long legs to make travel effortless... the long snout allows for deeper rooting as well...

Feral hogs caught as piglets and pen raised and bred will soon throw the shorter and shorter snouts they need for domestic life... I have seen this more than a dozen times with entire "ol' skool" small pig "keeps" done by fellow hunters...

After the second generation, they no longer exhibit the attack risk unless cornered which any pig will charge over that...

Brent

Keg · June 12, 2013, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Read my post again: The wild hogs in your area may be different from the ones here and in other places. Many of the hogs here have Eurasian boar blood. Yeah, i know, i've never done DNA testing to prove that. No one has ever done any testing that disproved it either. i have hosted German hunters here : They say many of the hogs here are German boars and boar crosses. I killed this very old boar in 2007 on Ft. Sill. He had a tag in his ear from a game farm in Bavaria:

We kill lots of pigs that look like that..only they don't have tags in their ears...
I have heard of Eurasian boar being turned loose in this county..in the past..from more than one ranch....It is a big mix....U never know what kind of pig might show....But the river property generally has the ones with more Eurasian traits....Mostly black pigs with less of those traits on my other properties..on the other side of the county....
This discussion has been on here before....

Many folks try to play up the aggression of pigs....I just don't see it..unless there is a reason....

ZeroJunk · June 12, 2013, 05:18 PM

I would like to hear a geneticist take on how their snout can change over a couple of generations. I suspect it is more likely interbreeding with existing long snout hogs in the wild population, or their snouts may continue to grow with age, where domestic hogs usually don't make it very long.
But, wouldn't be the first thing I have been confused by.

Buzzcook · June 13, 2013, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Beetle or Van?

Believe it or not that pig has gotten bigger every year since it got turned into bacon back in about 1964.

By the time I'm in an old folks home I expect it'll be the size of a school bus.

Old Stony · June 14, 2013, 05:33 AM

In reply to Thallub's remark about his hog's fangs being about 1/4 inch in diameter.....you must have a different type of hog in your area than we do here. Maybe you are hunting them at the wrong times...like under a full moon when they are on a blood quest. Ours don't have fangs, but maybe I have just shot them in a different moon cycle.

hogdogs · June 14, 2013, 09:18 AM

Tusks, tuskers, cutters, swords, blades, knives, fangs...

Brent

robhof · June 16, 2013, 01:57 PM

Actually the snout length and general body shape, at least for the boars is directly related to their testosterone levels; wild boars have much higher levels than their pen raised counterparts. The higher levels are a necessary adaptation to wilderness conditions and once elevated are readily passed as a genetic trait to their offspring. Pigs are as smart as dogs and maybe even smarter and trappers must constantly adapt; changing bait and trap locations as well as changing color and camo of the traps to keep getting results. I've personally seen pigs on a night watch, feeding all around baited traps and even turning over a box trap to dump the bait without getting caught.

Old Stony · June 16, 2013, 03:40 PM

I can relate to the turning over of the traps, as I have had them burrow under the sides many times, while the doors were wide open. They are voracious feeders and all seem to have what I refer to the D.C. pork belly syndrome. They learn really fast to belly up to the trough and get all they can get, but none of them want to get caught with their snout in the cookie jar. They can squeal like all hell when caught....but act ignorant of the situation.

June 16, 2013, 01:57 PM	#59
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof Actually the snout length and general body shape, at least for the boars is directly related to their testosterone levels; wild boars have much higher levels than their pen raised counterparts. The higher levels are a necessary adaptation to wilderness conditions and once elevated are readily passed as a genetic trait to their offspring. Pigs are as smart as dogs and maybe even smarter and trappers must constantly adapt; changing bait and trap locations as well as changing color and camo of the traps to keep getting results. I've personally seen pigs on a night watch, feeding all around baited traps and even turning over a box trap to dump the bait without getting caught.

June 10, 2013, 09:36 AM	#51
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I know that at one time, biologists claimed that domestic (short-nosed) hogs, once gone feral via escape from pens, would regress to the more primitive long-nosed type within a very few generations. The type-appearance would begin to show by the fourth generation. I dunno. That's from reading about east Texas "piney woods rooters", maybe forty years back.

June 11, 2013, 09:54 AM	#53
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Short nose and broad shoulders with short legs make for a "power feeder" at the slop trough... They can take up a wider spot while having leverage to lean on their trough mate to get even more... Feral pigs need the long snout, narrow head and shoulders and long legs to make travel effortless... the long snout allows for deeper rooting as well... Feral hogs caught as piglets and pen raised and bred will soon throw the shorter and shorter snouts they need for domestic life... I have seen this more than a dozen times with entire "ol' skool" small pig "keeps" done by fellow hunters... After the second generation, they no longer exhibit the attack risk unless cornered which any pig will charge over that... Brent

June 12, 2013, 05:18 PM	#55
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	I would like to hear a geneticist take on how their snout can change over a couple of generations. I suspect it is more likely interbreeding with existing long snout hogs in the wild population, or their snouts may continue to grow with age, where domestic hogs usually don't make it very long. But, wouldn't be the first thing I have been confused by.

June 14, 2013, 05:33 AM	#57
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	In reply to Thallub's remark about his hog's fangs being about 1/4 inch in diameter.....you must have a different type of hog in your area than we do here. Maybe you are hunting them at the wrong times...like under a full moon when they are on a blood quest. Ours don't have fangs, but maybe I have just shot them in a different moon cycle.

June 14, 2013, 09:18 AM	#58
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Tusks, tuskers, cutters, swords, blades, knives, fangs... Brent

June 16, 2013, 03:40 PM	#60
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	I can relate to the turning over of the traps, as I have had them burrow under the sides many times, while the doors were wide open. They are voracious feeders and all seem to have what I refer to the D.C. pork belly syndrome. They learn really fast to belly up to the trough and get all they can get, but none of them want to get caught with their snout in the cookie jar. They can squeal like all hell when caught....but act ignorant of the situation.