What sort of bullet is this.

rgman · February 9, 2012, 11:14 AM

Hi Guys This is a question from one of your English members. I bought the revolver shown from a sale recently. It was in a very bad state, however I've cleaned it up a bit and got the action working, well sort of working. The gun is a pin fire 11mm probably Spanish as it has no markings on it at all. But in one of the chambers was this bullet shown in the other photo which doesn't appear to be a pin fire. Any ideas what it is ? As you can see it seems to have four firing points on it. What do you think.

noelf2 · February 9, 2012, 12:15 PM

Is something stuck into the case or is that a necked-down case? The photo is too dark to tell. Can you post more photos?

SDC · February 9, 2012, 12:23 PM

It looks like it might be an externally-primed cartridge, which was tried for a short while at one time; we'd need some more information, and better pictures. Is there a bullet in the case, or is the case necked down?

kraigwy · February 9, 2012, 12:56 PM

That almost looks like my Belgium Pin Fire. Mine is 11 MM. But I don't know about the wierd round.

James K · February 9, 2012, 01:50 PM

The gun is a pinfire; while ignored and denigrated in the U.S., the pinfire in Europe fell into the same chronological era as the rimfire in the U.S. and was as popular and common. Those revolvers ranged from near junk to well-made guns, to works of art. They were made by the ton in Belgium, France, Spain and Germany. That one appears to be a "dug" gun and in that condition it would be difficult or impossible to determine the origin.

The "cartridge" (or cartridge case) is a new one on me. It does not appear to be a small arms cartridge at all; it might be an auxiliary cartridge for something like a mortar or a rocket launcher.

Jim

rgman · February 9, 2012, 02:37 PM

Hello Again. Thanks for the replies. I know the gun is an 11mm pin fire and I'm fairly sure it is Spanish. I've tried to take some better photos of the cartridge but it's not too easy. There is nothing marked on it. It measures 11mm and yes it seems to have some sort of taper which looks like it could be lead or possibly aluminium. The four holes in the end appear to have the residue of some sort of powder left in them. I tried to search the net but found nothing that looks the same. Any more ideas. Cheers

noelf2 · February 9, 2012, 03:02 PM

The tapered part is not part of the actual case. At fist I thought there was some kind of wadcutter/semi-wadcutter bullet seated in it until I saw the hole through it. Does the hole in the lead/aluminum part go all the way through or does it bottom out (some kind of strange hollow point bullet)? Does this thing actually fit well in the pinfire cylinder? Probably some experiment given up on, or perhaps it isn't a cartridge case at all.

AaronN322 · February 9, 2012, 08:46 PM

After consulting with some colleagues in the International Ammunition Association we determined it is non other than...... a toy.

It is a toy cartridge for the Lone Star Range Rider Mk. II revolver. It was made by Die Casting Machine Tool Ltd. for Lone Star Products Ltd., Welham Green Herts., England.

It uses one of the small roll caps to give a bang and smoke.

rgman · February 10, 2012, 03:06 AM

Thanks Aaron N322. Mystery solved! You learn something every day. Untill a few years ago I lived about three miles away from Welham green. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

Double Naught Spy · February 10, 2012, 09:16 AM

Very cool. Nice job, Aaron!

AaronN322 · February 10, 2012, 11:12 PM

ha I'm actually disappointed that it was not some weird part of a pinfire auxiliary adapter!

That is what got my attention. My multi-weekly Google searches of any new references to pinfire cartridges on the web brought me!

February 9, 2012, 12:15 PM	#2
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Is something stuck into the case or is that a necked-down case? The photo is too dark to tell. Can you post more photos? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

February 9, 2012, 12:23 PM	#3
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	It looks like it might be an externally-primed cartridge, which was tried for a short while at one time; we'd need some more information, and better pictures. Is there a bullet in the case, or is the case necked down? __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

February 9, 2012, 12:56 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	That almost looks like my Belgium Pin Fire. Mine is 11 MM. But I don't know about the wierd round. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

February 9, 2012, 03:02 PM	#7
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	The tapered part is not part of the actual case. At fist I thought there was some kind of wadcutter/semi-wadcutter bullet seated in it until I saw the hole through it. Does the hole in the lead/aluminum part go all the way through or does it bottom out (some kind of strange hollow point bullet)? Does this thing actually fit well in the pinfire cylinder? Probably some experiment given up on, or perhaps it isn't a cartridge case at all. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither. Last edited by noelf2; February 9, 2012 at 03:07 PM.

February 9, 2012, 08:46 PM	#8
AaronN322 Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 15	After consulting with some colleagues in the International Ammunition Association we determined it is non other than...... a toy. It is a toy cartridge for the Lone Star Range Rider Mk. II revolver. It was made by Die Casting Machine Tool Ltd. for Lone Star Products Ltd., Welham Green Herts., England. It uses one of the small roll caps to give a bang and smoke. __________________ www.FreeMyCollection.com Last edited by AaronN322; February 9, 2012 at 11:19 PM.

February 9, 2012, 01:50 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The gun is a pinfire; while ignored and denigrated in the U.S., the pinfire in Europe fell into the same chronological era as the rimfire in the U.S. and was as popular and common. Those revolvers ranged from near junk to well-made guns, to works of art. They were made by the ton in Belgium, France, Spain and Germany. That one appears to be a "dug" gun and in that condition it would be difficult or impossible to determine the origin. The "cartridge" (or cartridge case) is a new one on me. It does not appear to be a small arms cartridge at all; it might be an auxiliary cartridge for something like a mortar or a rocket launcher. Jim

February 10, 2012, 03:06 AM	#9
rgman Junior Member Join Date: June 8, 2010 Location: I live in a small village near Leicester England. In case you don't know Leicester is geographically about the centre of the UK Posts: 7	Thanks Aaron N322. Mystery solved! You learn something every day. Untill a few years ago I lived about three miles away from Welham green. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

February 10, 2012, 09:16 AM	#10
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,716	Very cool. Nice job, Aaron! __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

February 10, 2012, 11:12 PM	#11
AaronN322 Member Join Date: May 3, 2011 Posts: 15	ha I'm actually disappointed that it was not some weird part of a pinfire auxiliary adapter! That is what got my attention. My multi-weekly Google searches of any new references to pinfire cartridges on the web brought me! __________________ www.FreeMyCollection.com

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