Why?? I mean come on now... - Page 2

Double Naught Spy · March 23, 2009, 05:04 AM

No.

Quote:

I dont think you under stand the point its like brining a knife to a gun fight.

It is nothing like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sporting clays is a game, not a life or death situation.

Quote:

I meen I wouldnt of minded if the guy was shooting his ninja special as long as it had his bells and whilstles off it.

Once again, what does it matter what the guy has on his gun so long as he is shooting safely? What is so frightening or bothersome about how the gun is decked out?

Quote:

I will take my h/d gun shooting clays in the bush with my buddys for ****s and giggles but if I were at the rod n gun club I would bring my ithica again that still isnt even the shotgun I should be bringing but its the closest shotgun I would have to suite the job.

How do you know the guy described in the OP didn't bring his tactical shotgun for ****s and giggles? How do you know it isn't the closest gun he had for shooting clays?

Why won't you try sporting clays with your HD shotgun at the rod and gun club? Is it a peer pressure thing?

So the guy isn't striving to attain your personal standards for sporting clays, so what?

Quote:

and If my friend happend to have a spare shotgun for the job I hope he would offer it to me such as redlevel42 has mentioned.

Maybe one was offered and the guy just wanted to shoot his own shotgun?

----

The only real problems I see with using a tactical shotgun for sporting clays is that it likely has a short and and unchoked (or wrong choked) barrel and potentially has poor patterning/dispersal characteristics for sporting clays, therefore making it much more challenging for the guy to effectively hit birds. However, that is an issue for him to deal with, not me.

OLNfan · March 23, 2009, 07:48 AM

I guess you dont understand their is tradation every where..their is no tradation in a ninja special. I could careless what you or any one else says cause I wont budge on my side of this topic. 1) I wont take it to a real skeet shoot cause its the wrong ****ing firearm for the job. 2) I wont get the performace I want with it. 3) their used for different purposes.

Did you bring this prick to the range?

you see tradation here?

here?..no you dont.
I wouldnt be too rude if you brought this with you. But I WILL make sure that the first person you hear laughing at you when you missed would be me. Dont get me wrong I have tatical firearms you saw my shotgun, Iv got an ar-15 Imperial defense and a 9mm glock. None of these have bells or whistles on them. Their tatical enough as is for me.

inSight-NEO · March 23, 2009, 07:07 PM

Only problem is, the whole skeet junk aside, it would be unwise IMHO to not get in a decent amount of range time with a shotgun (or any weapon) as it is accessorized for HD. Now, I keep my stuff minimal; weapon mounted light and night sights...thats it. Either way, not taking the time to become used to the "dynamics" of such an accessorized weapon (not to mention the accessories themselves), could prove problematic when it comes down to it. Do I feel weird having the light mounted on the weapon while at the range? Nope.

Now, Im not necessarily saying that a heavily accessorized weapon (such as what you showed) should be used for shooting skeet, lets say. But, for the range, who cares? I sincerely believe in practicing with what would be used/fired/equipped for HD. Of course, Im not a hunter or an avid skeet shooter, so....

Besides, Ive NEVER seen anybody with that much crap mounted on a weapon anyway. Therefore, Id be less apt to care about what Im seeing and more inclined to wonder why the owner of this weapon deems it necessary to have such a gross amount of accessories.

OLNfan · March 24, 2009, 12:18 AM

I pulled the pictures off a shotgun thread from a different forum. that is an example of how much gear some people put on their hd guns. I believe I got my point accross.

inSight-NEO · March 25, 2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

I believe I got my point accross.

You did indeed; But, not every point made by another human being is necessarily based on reality and practicality.

The image you pulled off the internet is probably an exception to the norm when it comes to weapons accessorized with HD in mind.

But, your point has been made and therefore, I will choose to leave it at that.

COYOTE JLR · March 25, 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

OLNfan said: I pulled the pictures off a shotgun thread from a different forum. that is an example of how much gear some people put on their hd guns. I believe I got my point accross.

The point I got from those pictures is that people are ridiculous and will go completely overboard in an attempt to make things "cool" or "functional" even though most would think they utterly fail in those regards. However I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to shoot skeet.

It may be ridiculous and have no purpose, but if that's what they're going to defend their home with, than they should be familiar with the feel of their gun when its loaded down like that. Hell, for all we know, that kid may have decided his gun weighed way to much and gone home and stripped it down to something more reasonable.

I never knew shooting was a fashion show. Don't get me wrong here. I love the look of a beautiful wood stocked gun. A custom Blaser, or a Krieghoff, or a Perazzi is almost like porn to me. Everyday I get online and look at those things, as well as many others, and day dream over them, but I can't afford that. I wish I could, but I can't. I make do with what's available to me, at this time a Benelli Super Nova and a Mossberg 500 for the most part. The guy you're talking about probably doesn't have anything else to bring. I'd just be glad that there's someone else enjoying the sport in a safe environment. I'd hope that by coming to the same place I frequent he'd maybe learn more about guns and the art of them.

I see why you don't like the gun he was using, but I don't see it as something to get bothered about. When I go skeet shooting I bring my hunting gun (the Benelli) and an old single shot Springfield 20 gauge. Nothing fancy by any means, but those are what I have and shoot well with. If I was in your situation I would shake my head and chuckle and go back to enjoying myself.

Just my meandering .02.

OLNfan · March 25, 2009, 07:42 PM

"Blaser, or a Krieghoff, or a Perazzi" very nice guns! the benelli and the springfield are just fine for skeet I would love to have any of those firearms. personally im in love with NEF single shot rifles and shotguns, and stoeger shotguns in general (their stage coaches are beautiful!) wish I owned them. Hell I even like seeing tatical shotguns aswell. Im just saying I wouldnt be a big fan if I saw them skeet shooting (again iv never gone, but it seems to me that its a kind of tradational sport and it would be beautiful to see people using the correct firearm for the purpose). I woudlnt show up to the rod n gun club with my mossberg 500 with the retractable stock. I would be even a little nervous showing up with my georgous Ithica, because even though its a featherlight (took 2-3 inches off the barrel, so it could shoot slugs. I bought it like that) its not exactly made for waterfowl hunting any more. So I use it for deer on my girl friends farm.

freakintoguns · March 26, 2009, 01:29 AM

me and my buddies go shoot clays in the desert and i take my trusty 18" barreled remington 870 with me. and ill take my trusty 18" barreled stoager p2000 with me when i get one, and my benelli super black eagle 2 when i get one of those..... would that offend you?

oneounceload · March 26, 2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

me and my buddies go shoot clays in the desert and i take my trusty 18" barreled remington 870 with me. and ill take my trusty 18" barreled stoager p2000 with me when i get one, and my benelli super black eagle 2 when i get one of those..... would that offend you?

Not as long as you followed range safety protocol.

Where I shoot, we get some folks who come just before dove or quail season to warm up - for most, this is the ONLY time they come to a gun club; forgetting to open the action, "sweeping" folks inadvertently, etc. all come to mind - if you were one of those, then that would offend me.....otherwise step into the box and shoot.............

Double Naught Spy · March 26, 2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

I guess you dont understand their is tradation every where..their is no tradation in a ninja special. I could careless what you or any one else says cause I wont budge on my side of this topic. 1) I wont take it to a real skeet shoot cause its the wrong ****ing firearm for the job. 2) I wont get the performace I want with it. 3) their used for different purposes.

Once again, that is you. What does it matter if somebody else does it?

So there is some sort of "tradition" that you claim. So what? If it isn't against the rules and the guy isn't being unsafe, then what is the problem? Maybe you are just fearful of being different?

I watched a gun with a lever gun pulled from the rifle rack of his truck take third place against benchrest shooters at a bench match. There he was in his overalls, levergun, bunch of patched sandbags and then there were all these guys with their purdy lever guns, cleaning contraptions, wind thingies strung across the range, reloading gear, and the like. I guess brought a knife to a gun fight as he definitely was not traditional but he kicked butt as there were 25 - 30 folks shooting. Not bad for a bubba and his coyote gun. And, he had a great time.

freakintoguns · March 26, 2009, 02:59 PM

oh yeah! we defintly keep it safe man. we all enjoy living very much! plus the guys i shoot with are more then friends, basically brothers. so we pretty much feel like monsters if we hurt one another.

Dave McC · March 26, 2009, 08:54 PM

For the record. I care not a whit what you're shooting as long as you're doing so safely.

It can be a belt fed, burst fire 8 gauge or a 24 gauge Piotti SxS with engraving by Galeazzi.

Heck I'd like to try out both of those......

oneounceload · March 26, 2009, 09:07 PM

No 8 gauge at the range Dave - it carries too far...

squeak003 · March 27, 2009, 02:27 AM

i made the mistake of taking my saiga to the range to sight in my red dot. after witch my buddy decided he wanted to shoot clays. half way through the range master came up to me and told me i needed to stop. i asked why and he said "we've had some complaints". i asked about what and he said i was shooting an ak at clays so i pulled the mag and handed it to him he saw it was their 20g bird i was shooting so he told me to carry on. then came back a few min. later (i was watching him talk to a couple of older felows) and told me i had to leave due to complaints about my barrel length. i wasn't happy but next time ill be sure to bring my 500.

here is my gun

Double Naught Spy · March 27, 2009, 07:33 AM

squeak003, that is just terrible. So people didn't like what you were shooting and they complained in spite of the fact that you weren't breaking any rules and the RM said you had to stop? If you aren't breaking the rules, then the complaints really aren't valid, so I don't see why you would be told to stop. That just isn't right.

So how were you doing up until that time?

hoytinak · March 27, 2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

but next time ill be sure to bring my 500.

I wouldn't go back to that range at all. I'm thinking about putting a clay thrower out back just so I don't have to worry about the stuck-up, think-they're-better-than-everyone-else, can't-mind-their-own-business guys.

hogdogs · March 27, 2009, 09:53 AM

Many clay ranges have specific barrel length rules...
Brent

squeak003 · March 27, 2009, 11:10 AM

not to bad.....i had only missed 2.......i wanna say i shot at 12 before i was told i was"done"

BuckHammer · March 27, 2009, 01:19 PM

I now have an intense urge to dove hunt this season with a Saiga. That would be crazy fun! I would actually need one, though, to do that. Too bad, that seems like so much fun to me.

oneounceload · March 27, 2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

I now have an intense urge to dove hunt this season with a Saiga. That would be crazy fun! I would actually need one, though, to do that. Too bad, that seems like so much fun to me.

As long as it's plugged so it can't take more than three shells max, you're good to go; otherwise, you'll be good to go to jail

BuckHammer · March 27, 2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneounceload

As long as it's plugged so it can't take more than three shells max, you're good to go; otherwise, you'll be good to go to jail

I thought that went without saying.

squeak003 · March 27, 2009, 08:38 PM

they make a 2 round mag for the saigas.....or you can just slide off the bottom of the mag and put empty shells in from the bottom (kind of a hillbilly way to plug it buy it works)

B.L.E. · March 27, 2009, 09:36 PM

Why not shoot skeet, trap, or sporting clays with home defense style shotguns?
Most of us will live out our whole lives without ever needing to defend our homes anyway so at least the shotgun will get used for something.

Maybe they should start a sporting clays/skeet/trap class just for tactical shotguns.

JohnBrowningIII · March 27, 2009, 11:36 PM

I hate all fluff all fakes and all liar's! A rifle or pistol is a tool and it should reflect how you use it. More often then not most people have more money then brains when it comes to "Guns"!!!! What is more likely to happen in John's house???? A) He will need to retake his home by force in the dark from armed ex-Navy Seals. B) He will take his shotgun out to harvest some Duck's and Geese.

What is more likely to happen at John's place in Michigan???? A)He will be a top of a rocky mountain side while his men are pined down in the valley below by Afhgan rebels.....Good thing John has his Remington 700 Police Tactical Model with his Leopold Tactical scope and 168gr Hornady TAP ammo...B) John comes home and say's boy's let go to Adam's and do some target shooting better grab my Rugger Varmint/Target model and have some fun.

I hate it when people take a perfectly good rifle or shotgun and then butcher it with cheap bolt on junk! I mean if you are going to go after the tactical look at least buy the quality stuff not the cheap junk from Cheaper then Dirt!

Their was a time when I had more money then brains but then I had kids!!!LOL Seriously though you have to get insanely good before you notice the huge improvement one get's with say going from a $200-$400 scope up to a $3000+ scope. Their really is not much short of life and death situations and competing at the highest levels that requires that much scope. Seriously men where useing 3x,4x,6x and 8X fixed power scopes for a long long time for shot's routinely from 400-1000 yards. Prior to optics comeing on strong from the end of WWII onward iron sights where commonly used for such long range target work as well. Other then other people that where trained by the milatary I have not once meet a civilian that any clue on how to properly use a Mil-Dot scope. I guess knowing how to use it does not matter much it is just haveing the look!

Then their are all these writer's and editors that need to put braces on their 16 year old daughter's teeth. Well they have to give you something to read month after month so we keep getting more and more insane with what we demand from our rifles. They even have "tactical" "police" magazines and I can not believe for one minute that their are enough real tacticale people and police men and woman buying these rag's to keep them profitable! I am sure they are kids like my 10 year old. He lives eat's and sleeps anything with an Acronym so CIA,FBI,SWAT you name your agency and I am sure he has been it for halloween! But I am hopeing that he will have out grown that by the time he has money of his own with which to purchase magazines!

I stoped reading magizines year's ago. The occassional shotgun news or reloader etc............Their is always some new repackaged wiz-bang magnum short ,long,medium.......The rebirth of a classic etc............I am just so tired of junk and 1/2 the stuff sold at a sporting good store is junk plain and simple. I am tired of comapnies just repackageing one weapon a million different ways to try and sell just one more. Take the Remington 700 for crying out loud they have resorted to cuting the barrel int he shape of a triangle have put a crazy looking stock on it for what? What did the Eqyptians have a Pharo Model of the 700 is the power of the pyramid supossed to improve it's barrel harmonics or something???? What marketing thought of that? I know we can take our 700P and mill the sides of the barrels flat on three sides so it is shaped like a triangle then put it in a weird looking stock and sell them on clearance for $432. Never mind if they shoot or not?

I am just getting tired of all the cheap junk and stupid marketing idea's that are in the gun world these day's. Even Rugger has a tactical model but they had some good sense. Instead of their synthetic stock they went with the Houge over molded model which in my eye's makes perfect sense. To add value while other guys are droping big money on badger ordance or some other high end tactical scope mount that Ruger comes with some of the toughest scope mounts ever. The base's are cast right into the reciever.

I absolutely hate it when people try to look like LEO's or Milatary personel. Why what is the point? I have a truck so I can put stuff in the bed and haul heavy stuff around not so I can call myself a truck driver. When I put my Coverall's on it is to keep me warm when I am working on a car not because I want to look like Mac the Mechanic. Why would anyone want to have all kinds of junk bolted to their shotgun if they are not part of an Entry Team with their local SWAT unit? I think Ihear the answere it has got to be one of two things A)More money then brains. B)Could not cut it inthe real world so now they just dream about what they would have done if they had made it through (insert agency or para-milatary unit of your choice here)! Hey the worse thing I would do is laugh at you if I saw you pull that heap of iron out as your shotgun.... It makes me think of Barney Fife from Mayberry the Andy Grifith Show......Can you say Nepolean Complex!!!LOL

OLNfan I just want to be clear that if I saw someone with shotgun show up at the range I would be laughing my but off on the inside not matter what. No shotgun should have to have that much junk bolted to it.First if the folding stock was not their you would be able to use the iron as issues sights. With the stock up can you even use your Halo sight or is it partialy obsecured still by the folding stock. Then you added a magazine extension to get what as your total now? Best not take that thing hunting anyplace in the USA Mr. Canada because hunting with anything not pluged to reduce it to 2 rounds is a huge penalty.Then you have a flashlight and a laser pointer. Then a verticle forward grip with wires going out to your electrical bit's and pieces. I would be suprised if you could hold that thing out straight for more then a few seconds before your arm's started to get weak and shaky. That is a lot of junk to stick on the nose of a shotgun. I have never missed at a shooting range come to think of it I have never missed with a shotgun ever. I know why too! When I am hunting with a shotgun which is most of Michigan I treat it just like a bow and try to get as close as I can. Often my shot's are less then 40 yards. You have taken what is basicly a high tech club(the shotgun) and made it into something that could not possably work as well as it did from the factory. If all you had was a flash light on it I would not laugh that much because their are times when it would be nice if it where not against the law to have a flashlight on my hunting shotgun but the rest of the junk looks like a 12 year old got hold of your dredit card and a Cabella's catalog and went crazy! In the end though all that really matter is that you like it but I dare say that no one is obligated to like your creation and a good many of us pureist are going to laugh. That thing would only make sense if you are the first one throw the door with a swat team.

coldshot · March 28, 2009, 12:41 AM

There are loads of range snobs out there, I've gotten many disapproving looks for shooting my 3-1/2 inch sx3, synthetic stock with a 28 inch barrel at my club. For a few months that was all I had to shoot, so I started bringing my dad's m37, and I still got those looks because I was using a pump gun. I guess range rats just don't cotton to my kind, but they cant keep me away. I go at least twice a month, and make friends with the other new guys with entry level guns.

March 23, 2009, 07:48 AM	#27
OLNfan Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: British Columbia Canada Posts: 277	I guess you dont understand their is tradation every where..their is no tradation in a ninja special. I could careless what you or any one else says cause I wont budge on my side of this topic. 1) I wont take it to a real skeet shoot cause its the wrong ***ing firearm for the job. 2) I wont get the performace I want with it. 3) their used for different purposes. Did you bring this prick to the range? you see tradation here? here?..no you dont. I wouldnt be too rude if you brought this with you. But I WILL make sure that the first person you hear laughing at you when you missed would be me. Dont get me wrong I have tatical firearms you saw my shotgun, Iv got an ar-15 Imperial defense and a 9mm glock. None of these have bells or whistles on them. Their tatical enough as is for me. Last edited by OLNfan; March 23, 2009 at 08:06 AM.*

March 24, 2009, 12:18 AM	#29
OLNfan Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: British Columbia Canada Posts: 277	I pulled the pictures off a shotgun thread from a different forum. that is an example of how much gear some people put on their hd guns. I believe I got my point accross. Last edited by OLNfan; March 24, 2009 at 03:24 PM.

March 25, 2009, 07:42 PM	#32
OLNfan Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: British Columbia Canada Posts: 277	"Blaser, or a Krieghoff, or a Perazzi" very nice guns! the benelli and the springfield are just fine for skeet I would love to have any of those firearms. personally im in love with NEF single shot rifles and shotguns, and stoeger shotguns in general (their stage coaches are beautiful!) wish I owned them. Hell I even like seeing tatical shotguns aswell. Im just saying I wouldnt be a big fan if I saw them skeet shooting (again iv never gone, but it seems to me that its a kind of tradational sport and it would be beautiful to see people using the correct firearm for the purpose). I woudlnt show up to the rod n gun club with my mossberg 500 with the retractable stock. I would be even a little nervous showing up with my georgous Ithica, because even though its a featherlight (took 2-3 inches off the barrel, so it could shoot slugs. I bought it like that) its not exactly made for waterfowl hunting any more. So I use it for deer on my girl friends farm. __________________ "Dear Governor Axtell. I've heard that you will give 200 dollars for my head. Perhaps we should meet and talk. I am at the Juarez village at the border. Send 3 men, and instruct them not to shoot, as I am unarmed. In short, Sir; I surrender. Your obedient servant William H. Bonney. PS: I changed my mind. Kiss my ass."

March 27, 2009, 02:27 AM	#39
squeak003 Member Join Date: August 20, 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 98	i made the mistake of taking my saiga to the range to sight in my red dot. after witch my buddy decided he wanted to shoot clays. half way through the range master came up to me and told me i needed to stop. i asked why and he said "we've had some complaints". i asked about what and he said i was shooting an ak at clays so i pulled the mag and handed it to him he saw it was their 20g bird i was shooting so he told me to carry on. then came back a few min. later (i was watching him talk to a couple of older felows) and told me i had to leave due to complaints about my barrel length. i wasn't happy but next time ill be sure to bring my 500. here is my gun __________________ Mosin Nagant M91, Mosberg 500 12g, ruger 10/22 with a few mods, saiga 20 with a red dot (soon to be converted) will be looking to add to my collection soon (most likely a sig p232)

March 27, 2009, 07:33 AM	#40
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	squeak003, that is just terrible. So people didn't like what you were shooting and they complained in spite of the fact that you weren't breaking any rules and the RM said you had to stop? If you aren't breaking the rules, then the complaints really aren't valid, so I don't see why you would be told to stop. That just isn't right. So how were you doing up until that time? __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

March 23, 2009, 07:07 PM	#28
inSight-NEO Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2008 Posts: 608	Only problem is, the whole skeet junk aside, it would be unwise IMHO to not get in a decent amount of range time with a shotgun (or any weapon) as it is accessorized for HD. Now, I keep my stuff minimal; weapon mounted light and night sights...thats it. Either way, not taking the time to become used to the "dynamics" of such an accessorized weapon (not to mention the accessories themselves), could prove problematic when it comes down to it. Do I feel weird having the light mounted on the weapon while at the range? Nope. Now, Im not necessarily saying that a heavily accessorized weapon (such as what you showed) should be used for shooting skeet, lets say. But, for the range, who cares? I sincerely believe in practicing with what would be used/fired/equipped for HD. Of course, Im not a hunter or an avid skeet shooter, so.... Besides, Ive NEVER seen anybody with that much crap mounted on a weapon anyway. Therefore, Id be less apt to care about what Im seeing and more inclined to wonder why the owner of this weapon deems it necessary to have such a gross amount of accessories.

March 26, 2009, 01:29 AM	#33
freakintoguns Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2008 Posts: 496	me and my buddies go shoot clays in the desert and i take my trusty 18" barreled remington 870 with me. and ill take my trusty 18" barreled stoager p2000 with me when i get one, and my benelli super black eagle 2 when i get one of those..... would that offend you?

March 26, 2009, 02:59 PM	#36
freakintoguns Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2008 Posts: 496	oh yeah! we defintly keep it safe man. we all enjoy living very much! plus the guys i shoot with are more then friends, basically brothers. so we pretty much feel like monsters if we hurt one another.

March 26, 2009, 08:54 PM	#37
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	For the record. I care not a whit what you're shooting as long as you're doing so safely. It can be a belt fed, burst fire 8 gauge or a 24 gauge Piotti SxS with engraving by Galeazzi. Heck I'd like to try out both of those......

March 26, 2009, 09:07 PM	#38
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	No 8 gauge at the range Dave - it carries too far...

March 27, 2009, 09:53 AM	#42
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Many clay ranges have specific barrel length rules... Brent

March 27, 2009, 11:10 AM	#43
squeak003 Member Join Date: August 20, 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 98	not to bad.....i had only missed 2.......i wanna say i shot at 12 before i was told i was"done" __________________ Mosin Nagant M91, Mosberg 500 12g, ruger 10/22 with a few mods, saiga 20 with a red dot (soon to be converted) will be looking to add to my collection soon (most likely a sig p232)

March 27, 2009, 01:19 PM	#44
BuckHammer Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 286	I now have an intense urge to dove hunt this season with a Saiga. That would be crazy fun! I would actually need one, though, to do that. Too bad, that seems like so much fun to me. __________________ Luck runs out. Boiler Up!

March 27, 2009, 08:38 PM	#47
squeak003 Member Join Date: August 20, 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 98	they make a 2 round mag for the saigas.....or you can just slide off the bottom of the mag and put empty shells in from the bottom (kind of a hillbilly way to plug it buy it works) __________________ Mosin Nagant M91, Mosberg 500 12g, ruger 10/22 with a few mods, saiga 20 with a red dot (soon to be converted) will be looking to add to my collection soon (most likely a sig p232)

March 27, 2009, 09:36 PM	#48
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Why not shoot skeet, trap, or sporting clays with home defense style shotguns? Most of us will live out our whole lives without ever needing to defend our homes anyway so at least the shotgun will get used for something. Maybe they should start a sporting clays/skeet/trap class just for tactical shotguns.

March 27, 2009, 11:36 PM	#49
JohnBrowningIII Junior Member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 8	Because it takes all kinds of stupid to make the world go round!! I hate all fluff all fakes and all liar's! A rifle or pistol is a tool and it should reflect how you use it. More often then not most people have more money then brains when it comes to "Guns"!!!! What is more likely to happen in John's house???? A) He will need to retake his home by force in the dark from armed ex-Navy Seals. B) He will take his shotgun out to harvest some Duck's and Geese. What is more likely to happen at John's place in Michigan???? A)He will be a top of a rocky mountain side while his men are pined down in the valley below by Afhgan rebels.....Good thing John has his Remington 700 Police Tactical Model with his Leopold Tactical scope and 168gr Hornady TAP ammo...B) John comes home and say's boy's let go to Adam's and do some target shooting better grab my Rugger Varmint/Target model and have some fun. I hate it when people take a perfectly good rifle or shotgun and then butcher it with cheap bolt on junk! I mean if you are going to go after the tactical look at least buy the quality stuff not the cheap junk from Cheaper then Dirt! Their was a time when I had more money then brains but then I had kids!!!LOL Seriously though you have to get insanely good before you notice the huge improvement one get's with say going from a $200-$400 scope up to a $3000+ scope. Their really is not much short of life and death situations and competing at the highest levels that requires that much scope. Seriously men where useing 3x,4x,6x and 8X fixed power scopes for a long long time for shot's routinely from 400-1000 yards. Prior to optics comeing on strong from the end of WWII onward iron sights where commonly used for such long range target work as well. Other then other people that where trained by the milatary I have not once meet a civilian that any clue on how to properly use a Mil-Dot scope. I guess knowing how to use it does not matter much it is just haveing the look! Then their are all these writer's and editors that need to put braces on their 16 year old daughter's teeth. Well they have to give you something to read month after month so we keep getting more and more insane with what we demand from our rifles. They even have "tactical" "police" magazines and I can not believe for one minute that their are enough real tacticale people and police men and woman buying these rag's to keep them profitable! I am sure they are kids like my 10 year old. He lives eat's and sleeps anything with an Acronym so CIA,FBI,SWAT you name your agency and I am sure he has been it for halloween! But I am hopeing that he will have out grown that by the time he has money of his own with which to purchase magazines! I stoped reading magizines year's ago. The occassional shotgun news or reloader etc............Their is always some new repackaged wiz-bang magnum short ,long,medium.......The rebirth of a classic etc............I am just so tired of junk and 1/2 the stuff sold at a sporting good store is junk plain and simple. I am tired of comapnies just repackageing one weapon a million different ways to try and sell just one more. Take the Remington 700 for crying out loud they have resorted to cuting the barrel int he shape of a triangle have put a crazy looking stock on it for what? What did the Eqyptians have a Pharo Model of the 700 is the power of the pyramid supossed to improve it's barrel harmonics or something???? What marketing thought of that? I know we can take our 700P and mill the sides of the barrels flat on three sides so it is shaped like a triangle then put it in a weird looking stock and sell them on clearance for $432. Never mind if they shoot or not? I am just getting tired of all the cheap junk and stupid marketing idea's that are in the gun world these day's. Even Rugger has a tactical model but they had some good sense. Instead of their synthetic stock they went with the Houge over molded model which in my eye's makes perfect sense. To add value while other guys are droping big money on badger ordance or some other high end tactical scope mount that Ruger comes with some of the toughest scope mounts ever. The base's are cast right into the reciever. I absolutely hate it when people try to look like LEO's or Milatary personel. Why what is the point? I have a truck so I can put stuff in the bed and haul heavy stuff around not so I can call myself a truck driver. When I put my Coverall's on it is to keep me warm when I am working on a car not because I want to look like Mac the Mechanic. Why would anyone want to have all kinds of junk bolted to their shotgun if they are not part of an Entry Team with their local SWAT unit? I think Ihear the answere it has got to be one of two things A)More money then brains. B)Could not cut it inthe real world so now they just dream about what they would have done if they had made it through (insert agency or para-milatary unit of your choice here)! Hey the worse thing I would do is laugh at you if I saw you pull that heap of iron out as your shotgun.... It makes me think of Barney Fife from Mayberry the Andy Grifith Show......Can you say Nepolean Complex!!!LOL OLNfan I just want to be clear that if I saw someone with shotgun show up at the range I would be laughing my but off on the inside not matter what. No shotgun should have to have that much junk bolted to it.First if the folding stock was not their you would be able to use the iron as issues sights. With the stock up can you even use your Halo sight or is it partialy obsecured still by the folding stock. Then you added a magazine extension to get what as your total now? Best not take that thing hunting anyplace in the USA Mr. Canada because hunting with anything not pluged to reduce it to 2 rounds is a huge penalty.Then you have a flashlight and a laser pointer. Then a verticle forward grip with wires going out to your electrical bit's and pieces. I would be suprised if you could hold that thing out straight for more then a few seconds before your arm's started to get weak and shaky. That is a lot of junk to stick on the nose of a shotgun. I have never missed at a shooting range come to think of it I have never missed with a shotgun ever. I know why too! When I am hunting with a shotgun which is most of Michigan I treat it just like a bow and try to get as close as I can. Often my shot's are less then 40 yards. You have taken what is basicly a high tech club(the shotgun) and made it into something that could not possably work as well as it did from the factory. If all you had was a flash light on it I would not laugh that much because their are times when it would be nice if it where not against the law to have a flashlight on my hunting shotgun but the rest of the junk looks like a 12 year old got hold of your dredit card and a Cabella's catalog and went crazy! In the end though all that really matter is that you like it but I dare say that no one is obligated to like your creation and a good many of us pureist are going to laugh. That thing would only make sense if you are the first one throw the door with a swat team. Last edited by JohnBrowningIII; March 28, 2009 at 12:09 AM.

March 28, 2009, 12:41 AM	#50
coldshot Junior Member Join Date: December 28, 2008 Posts: 13	There are loads of range snobs out there, I've gotten many disapproving looks for shooting my 3-1/2 inch sx3, synthetic stock with a 28 inch barrel at my club. For a few months that was all I had to shoot, so I started bringing my dad's m37, and I still got those looks because I was using a pump gun. I guess range rats just don't cotton to my kind, but they cant keep me away. I go at least twice a month, and make friends with the other new guys with entry level guns.