What can be done to a J-frame to improve performance for carry and IDPA competition?

Alex Johnson · August 20, 2002, 02:53 PM

I've recently decided to go back to the basics and use my old trusty S&W model 60 for IDPA competiton. I know this will go against everything that IDPA is starting to become, but I still feel that it is important to practice with a pistol that you carry just about every day. Still, I would like to make sure the odds are at least somewhat fair when I take the field. The biggest concern I have is fast reloading capability, I know from experience that these little guns are not the most reliable cartridge extractors and I'm looking for ways to limit the degree to which cartridges stick into the chambers. Will simply honing the chambers be sufficient or should something else be done?

stans · August 20, 2002, 06:09 PM

Always point the gun upward and smack the ejector rod, this should send the empties towards the ground with some velocity. Since I am not an IDPA competitor, I do not know if pointing the gun upwards is allowed, but in a real world situation, this is what I would do.

C.R.Sam · August 20, 2002, 08:52 PM

What Stans said.

Also.....easy to make power factor with .38 special cases.

I put a lot of wear on a 686 snub just practicin reloads. Got good with it too.

Sam

James K · August 21, 2002, 11:30 PM

Since the makers now seem to use the same diameter for both .38 Special and .38 S&W cases, the latter could solve your problem with the ejector, but try them in the chambers first.

Reloading can give you very respectable loads with the .38 S&W when they will be used in a good gun.

Jim

C.R.Sam · August 21, 2002, 11:57 PM

Jim....interesting idea.
If the gun will chamber .38 S&W cases..
And one seats the bullets out further to crimp in forward lube groove...
And one proceeds with caution..as in CAUTION.
One could get some VERY interesting short loads.

MUST insure that nobody uses them in a .38 S&W chambered gun.

Sam

Walt Sherrill · August 22, 2002, 07:51 AM

I started to say I'm not sure using .38 S&W in a .38 special would be legal for IDPA -- but upon reflection, don't see how that's really different from shooting .38 special in a .357. (And we know THAT is OK.)

I'll bet somebody would squeal, though, if you startede shooting really well with a .38 S&W load. <grin>

9x45 · August 22, 2002, 10:42 AM

As long as it meets the power floor...

C.R.Sam · August 22, 2002, 12:16 PM

Meet power factor. That is THE key.

Love to see the faces when a little stubby case with stickey out bullet......meets PF and then a bit.

I have to try a few just because.

But Mom, it's all Jim's fault.

Sam

Chris W · August 22, 2002, 12:56 PM

Fellas, this is a little off the topic of the thread, but you all will know the answer, I've no doubt. I've got a couple of boxes of .38 Short Colt (originally purchased by someone else for a real old gun, longish story), and wonder: could I shoot this stuff through a .357/.38? And no, I won't try to reload it to make IDPA power factor. Thanks, and sorry to interrupt the thread

cw

Penman · August 22, 2002, 01:35 PM

Ditto for stan's advice to you. Hold the cylinder in your support hand, with fingers reaching through the frame, muzzle vertical. Slap the end of the ejector rod hard with the palm of your hand. As your strong hand continues down to reach for your reload, the support hand rotates the revolver 180 degrees to where the muzzle is pointing down and you're ready to insert the reload.

C.R.Sam · August 22, 2002, 03:18 PM

.38 LONG COLT can be fired in .38spec/.357mag chambers but not vice versa. The colt is a tad smaller in diameter.

Dunno bout the SHORT COLT.

Sam

Chris W · August 22, 2002, 03:59 PM

Thanks, Sam--the gun it was purchased for (and fired in without mishap) was chambered for .38 Long Colt. I suspect it'll work fine. The short little cartridges fit properly in the chamber, they'll just have to make a long jump to get to the barrel.

cw

James K · August 22, 2002, 04:54 PM

Both .38 Short and .38 Long Colt will work fine in a .38 Special or .357 Magnum chamber. I didn't mention them because ammo is about impossible to get; even Old Western Scrounger does not list .38 Short Colt. I knew a woman LEO who carried .38 Long Colt in her .38 Special revolver because of the lighter recoil.

Of course, .38 Special or .357 cases can be cut down, but that involves finding loading dies since .38 S&W sizing dies might not work.

Jim

August 20, 2002, 02:53 PM	#1
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	What can be done to a J-frame to improve performance for carry and IDPA competition? I've recently decided to go back to the basics and use my old trusty S&W model 60 for IDPA competiton. I know this will go against everything that IDPA is starting to become, but I still feel that it is important to practice with a pistol that you carry just about every day. Still, I would like to make sure the odds are at least somewhat fair when I take the field. The biggest concern I have is fast reloading capability, I know from experience that these little guns are not the most reliable cartridge extractors and I'm looking for ways to limit the degree to which cartridges stick into the chambers. Will simply honing the chambers be sufficient or should something else be done? __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

August 22, 2002, 01:35 PM	#10
Penman Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2002 Posts: 242	Ditto for stan's advice to you. Hold the cylinder in your support hand, with fingers reaching through the frame, muzzle vertical. Slap the end of the ejector rod hard with the palm of your hand. As your strong hand continues down to reach for your reload, the support hand rotates the revolver 180 degrees to where the muzzle is pointing down and you're ready to insert the reload. __________________ "It is not down in any map, true places never are." Herman Melville, in "Moby Dick"

August 20, 2002, 06:09 PM	#2
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	Always point the gun upward and smack the ejector rod, this should send the empties towards the ground with some velocity. Since I am not an IDPA competitor, I do not know if pointing the gun upwards is allowed, but in a real world situation, this is what I would do.

August 20, 2002, 08:52 PM	#3
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	What Stans said. Also.....easy to make power factor with .38 special cases. I put a lot of wear on a 686 snub just practicin reloads. Got good with it too. Sam

August 21, 2002, 11:30 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Since the makers now seem to use the same diameter for both .38 Special and .38 S&W cases, the latter could solve your problem with the ejector, but try them in the chambers first. Reloading can give you very respectable loads with the .38 S&W when they will be used in a good gun. Jim

August 21, 2002, 11:57 PM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Jim....interesting idea. If the gun will chamber .38 S&W cases.. And one seats the bullets out further to crimp in forward lube groove... And one proceeds with caution..as in CAUTION. One could get some VERY interesting short loads. MUST insure that nobody uses them in a .38 S&W chambered gun. Sam

August 22, 2002, 07:51 AM	#6
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	I started to say I'm not sure using .38 S&W in a .38 special would be legal for IDPA -- but upon reflection, don't see how that's really different from shooting .38 special in a .357. (And we know THAT is OK.) I'll bet somebody would squeal, though, if you startede shooting really well with a .38 S&W load. <grin>

August 22, 2002, 10:42 AM	#7
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	As long as it meets the power floor...

August 22, 2002, 12:16 PM	#8
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Meet power factor. That is THE key. Love to see the faces when a little stubby case with stickey out bullet......meets PF and then a bit. I have to try a few just because. But Mom, it's all Jim's fault. Sam

August 22, 2002, 12:56 PM	#9
Chris W Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2002 Location: Central WA Posts: 450	Fellas, this is a little off the topic of the thread, but you all will know the answer, I've no doubt. I've got a couple of boxes of .38 Short Colt (originally purchased by someone else for a real old gun, longish story), and wonder: could I shoot this stuff through a .357/.38? And no, I won't try to reload it to make IDPA power factor. Thanks, and sorry to interrupt the thread cw

August 22, 2002, 03:18 PM	#11
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	.38 LONG COLT can be fired in .38spec/.357mag chambers but not vice versa. The colt is a tad smaller in diameter. Dunno bout the SHORT COLT. Sam

August 22, 2002, 03:59 PM	#12
Chris W Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2002 Location: Central WA Posts: 450	Thanks, Sam--the gun it was purchased for (and fired in without mishap) was chambered for .38 Long Colt. I suspect it'll work fine. The short little cartridges fit properly in the chamber, they'll just have to make a long jump to get to the barrel. cw

August 22, 2002, 04:54 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Both .38 Short and .38 Long Colt will work fine in a .38 Special or .357 Magnum chamber. I didn't mention them because ammo is about impossible to get; even Old Western Scrounger does not list .38 Short Colt. I knew a woman LEO who carried .38 Long Colt in her .38 Special revolver because of the lighter recoil. Of course, .38 Special or .357 cases can be cut down, but that involves finding loading dies since .38 S&W sizing dies might not work. Jim