9mm...water drop or not?

chris in va · August 25, 2011, 11:27 PM

I've been using a Lee 358 mold in my CZ for a while with very good results, but leading is a problem. I've water dropped all of them, should I try air cooling instead?

Ideal Tool · August 25, 2011, 11:43 PM

Hello, cris in va. What alloy are you running? When I started casting for my
.22 Hornet & .222Rem. I thought I had to water quench..got all kinds of weight variations..probably doing it wrong..but I found I didn't need to after all. What kind of lube you using? What dia. is bullet as loaded?

armoredman · August 26, 2011, 12:02 AM

I have never water dropped, always towel dropped. No leading to minimal leading using wheel weight lead.
358? Kinda wide for 9mm, too, what does your barrel slug to? I've been using the Lee 356-124-2R tumble lube 2 cavity mold and just started using the Lee 356-125-2R single luge groove 2 cavity mold.

chris in va · August 26, 2011, 01:06 AM

Clip wheelweights.

Everything I tried in 356 went in sideways, and the 358 solved that issue. Leading isn't a big deal but I can't help but think there's some way to reduce it. Heck, the 45's in my Glock don't lead at all.

Tumble lubing the 358-125-RF mold with JPW/Mineral spirits.

Edward429451 · August 26, 2011, 03:00 AM

Maybe you're getting some cutting. Air cooled might just do the trick. Try a small batch to see.

**Shane Tuttle** · August 26, 2011, 06:34 AM

Does your Glock have the stock polygonal barrel or an aftermarket such as Wolf?

243winxb · August 26, 2011, 07:52 AM

Oven heat treated/wated cooled in 44mag. & 45acp leave a lot of nasty looking stuff in the barrel for me. But accuracy remains the same with many rounds fired. Not real leading. Air cooled with the proper alloy is the way to go if you want a clean looking barrel. Add linotype to your WW & scrap lead. Try for a BHN of 18 containing 2% tin or more.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · August 26, 2011, 08:09 AM

9mm and lead

.358" is perfect. Air-cooled boolits work great, no need to harden them. Use GOOD lube. I have found best luck using mid to upper end loads with 9mm and lead.

If you are using a tumble lube design I would maybe add some Johnson's paste wax in with the Alox. I have heard this really helps.

I prefer White label lubes "BAC" or "Carnauba Red".

farmall · August 26, 2011, 09:20 AM

Used to think this was neccessary, but have pretty well convinced myself otherwise. I get along great with A/CWW in all my handgun stuff, including 9mm.
I think that hands down, proper sizing is the key to shooting cast in the 9mm.

Andy

CherokeeT · August 26, 2011, 12:09 PM

Try the bullet without the water drop, should work fine, does for me in 9mm. None of my CB loads for any pistols are water drop.

Nevmavrick · August 26, 2011, 09:52 PM

You say you're using JPW and mineral spirits, hmmm. Try adding LLA.
Many many shooters use 45-45-10 and that is with LLA.
Are you sizing, or using "as cast?" If you're not sizing, the larger, .358 bullet should fit better, so you MAY not need to WD, AC should work fine. also, what load are you using? Sometimes, in a high-pressure cartridge, like the 9mm Luger, using BE or WW231 etc, may allow leading. Maybe using a slightly slower powder may help.
Have fun,
Gene

shoot1forme · August 26, 2011, 10:20 PM

I tried water dropping recently for my P95DC and it made a huge difference in the leading. The barrel is rough being as new as the pistol is but the leading was reduced by half. I would take the same boolits and load them in my .357 cases to .38 spec. velocity, shoot them in my Mod. 27 and no leading what so ever. I use the 124 TL Lee boolit sized .356 for 9mm and as dropped (.358) for the Mod. 27. LLA is the lube I use. I'm sure as soon as the Ruger barrel smooths out leading in it will be a non issue. I now water quench everything I cast.

chris in va · August 26, 2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Does your Glock have the stock polygonal barrel or an aftermarket such as Wolf?

Stock barrel.

I'm sizing the boolits to 358 as they drop at 361 as-cast, despite what the label on the mold says. I'll try towel dropping the 9's and see what happens.

armoredman · August 26, 2011, 10:40 PM

shoot1, that's the same mold I use for 9mm and 38 Special, as well. I just got the newer 125 grain mold, doesn't drop wide enough for 38 special.

Nevmavrick · August 27, 2011, 06:55 AM

Armoredman- you might go over to the "Cast Boolit" forum and google up a concept called Beagling. Your mold MAY produce the bullet you want.
I've produces a lot of bullets for my .41s, and am now experimenting with a 7.62x39.
Have fun,
Gene

armoredman · August 27, 2011, 09:26 AM

Actually, it IS producing the boolit, (I have been at castboolits.gunloads.com for a bit), I want, bought it for 9mm.

As for 7.62x39mm, I have 2 molds in that flavor, and while the Lee produces a decent 160 boolit, the NOE 314 129 5 cavity produces an incredible boolit that both the 527M and vz-58 like.
Interesting that a few say 358 is perfect for 9mm, I have never found that to be true, but I've only been casting for a few years and only for 3 calibers, 38 Special, 9mm and 7.62x39mm.
BTW, make sure to look at this thread, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13453 for a lot of great info on casting for 7.62x39mm.

August 25, 2011, 11:27 PM	#1
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	9mm...water drop or not? I've been using a Lee 358 mold in my CZ for a while with very good results, but leading is a problem. I've water dropped all of them, should I try air cooling instead?

August 26, 2011, 06:34 AM	#6
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	Does your Glock have the stock polygonal barrel or an aftermarket such as Wolf? __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

August 26, 2011, 08:09 AM	#8
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	9mm and lead .358" is perfect. Air-cooled boolits work great, no need to harden them. Use GOOD lube. I have found best luck using mid to upper end loads with 9mm and lead. If you are using a tumble lube design I would maybe add some Johnson's paste wax in with the Alox. I have heard this really helps. I prefer White label lubes "BAC" or "Carnauba Red". __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

August 26, 2011, 12:09 PM	#10
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	Try the bullet without the water drop, should work fine, does for me in 9mm. None of my CB loads for any pistols are water drop. __________________ God Bless America US Army, NRA Endowment TSRA Life, SASS

August 26, 2011, 10:20 PM	#12
shoot1forme Junior Member Join Date: July 4, 2011 Location: Northern Left Coast Posts: 12	Water dropped 9mm's I tried water dropping recently for my P95DC and it made a huge difference in the leading. The barrel is rough being as new as the pistol is but the leading was reduced by half. I would take the same boolits and load them in my .357 cases to .38 spec. velocity, shoot them in my Mod. 27 and no leading what so ever. I use the 124 TL Lee boolit sized .356 for 9mm and as dropped (.358) for the Mod. 27. LLA is the lube I use. I'm sure as soon as the Ruger barrel smooths out leading in it will be a non issue. I now water quench everything I cast.

August 25, 2011, 11:43 PM	#2
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello, cris in va. What alloy are you running? When I started casting for my .22 Hornet & .222Rem. I thought I had to water quench..got all kinds of weight variations..probably doing it wrong..but I found I didn't need to after all. What kind of lube you using? What dia. is bullet as loaded?

August 26, 2011, 12:02 AM	#3
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,297	I have never water dropped, always towel dropped. No leading to minimal leading using wheel weight lead. 358? Kinda wide for 9mm, too, what does your barrel slug to? I've been using the Lee 356-124-2R tumble lube 2 cavity mold and just started using the Lee 356-125-2R single luge groove 2 cavity mold.

August 26, 2011, 01:06 AM	#4
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Clip wheelweights. Everything I tried in 356 went in sideways, and the 358 solved that issue. Leading isn't a big deal but I can't help but think there's some way to reduce it. Heck, the 45's in my Glock don't lead at all. Tumble lubing the 358-125-RF mold with JPW/Mineral spirits.

August 26, 2011, 03:00 AM	#5
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Maybe you're getting some cutting. Air cooled might just do the trick. Try a small batch to see.

August 26, 2011, 07:52 AM	#7
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Oven heat treated/wated cooled in 44mag. & 45acp leave a lot of nasty looking stuff in the barrel for me. But accuracy remains the same with many rounds fired. Not real leading. Air cooled with the proper alloy is the way to go if you want a clean looking barrel. Add linotype to your WW & scrap lead. Try for a BHN of 18 containing 2% tin or more.

August 26, 2011, 09:20 AM	#9
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	Used to think this was neccessary, but have pretty well convinced myself otherwise. I get along great with A/CWW in all my handgun stuff, including 9mm. I think that hands down, proper sizing is the key to shooting cast in the 9mm. Andy

August 26, 2011, 09:52 PM	#11
Nevmavrick Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Sparks, Nevada, near Reno Posts: 183	You say you're using JPW and mineral spirits, hmmm. Try adding LLA. Many many shooters use 45-45-10 and that is with LLA. Are you sizing, or using "as cast?" If you're not sizing, the larger, .358 bullet should fit better, so you MAY not need to WD, AC should work fine. also, what load are you using? Sometimes, in a high-pressure cartridge, like the 9mm Luger, using BE or WW231 etc, may allow leading. Maybe using a slightly slower powder may help. Have fun, Gene

August 26, 2011, 10:40 PM	#14
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,297	shoot1, that's the same mold I use for 9mm and 38 Special, as well. I just got the newer 125 grain mold, doesn't drop wide enough for 38 special.

August 27, 2011, 06:55 AM	#15
Nevmavrick Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Sparks, Nevada, near Reno Posts: 183	Armoredman- you might go over to the "Cast Boolit" forum and google up a concept called Beagling. Your mold MAY produce the bullet you want. I've produces a lot of bullets for my .41s, and am now experimenting with a 7.62x39. Have fun, Gene

August 27, 2011, 09:26 AM	#16
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,297	Actually, it IS producing the boolit, (I have been at castboolits.gunloads.com for a bit), I want, bought it for 9mm. As for 7.62x39mm, I have 2 molds in that flavor, and while the Lee produces a decent 160 boolit, the NOE 314 129 5 cavity produces an incredible boolit that both the 527M and vz-58 like. Interesting that a few say 358 is perfect for 9mm, I have never found that to be true, but I've only been casting for a few years and only for 3 calibers, 38 Special, 9mm and 7.62x39mm. BTW, make sure to look at this thread, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13453 for a lot of great info on casting for 7.62x39mm.