reloading low recoil 45 acp

[attila787]

I just purchased an STI shadow. This the first time I shoot a 3" barrel 1911 while I don't take the recoil is that bad. I'm shooting low and I know it's because I'm not use to the the pistol and the added recoil.

Can you guys give me recommendations for making some low recoil 45 acp? Right now I have some bullets rated at 230 grain (5.3 bullseye) can I go lower? Would it be safe?

Advice/suggestions please...

[Tacoma]

Your likely anticipating the recoil and mashing the trigger when it breaks.

Anyway, yes, there are loads that can reduce recoil by going to lighter bullets and/or different powders . Your question is somewhat broad though so it's hard to answer specificly. Do a search here for "45 loads" and you'll find many recomendations.

[Wleoff]

I've got a friend, because of medical problems, who has loaded and fired over 2000 rounds of 45 ACP, looking for mild recoil. He said that these loads work in Springfield and Wilson 1911s, Sigs, Ruger P90 and a Glock 21C, among others. He said that a Glock 21C with a 3.5 lb connector is the lowest recoil 45 ACP pistol that he's found with standard 45 ACP loads.. Also the following Bullseye load is the softest shooting of any of the following loads, but also the dirtiest. Vita and Titegroup are the cleanest. i've used his loads in several of my 1911s and have been really impressed by the low recoil and good accuracy.

4.0 grains of Bullseye, 200 gr. lead semiwadcutter.
3.5 gr. Vita N310, 200 gr. LSWC.
3.6 gr. Titegroup, 200 gr. LSWC.
4.1 gr. Vita N310, 200 gr. Hornady jacketed SWC.
4.8 gr. Winchester 231, Remington 185 gr. JSWC

I usually don't recommend exact loads, but have been impressed by these. I'd compare these loads with the standard loads in the reloading manuals to see where they vary. Good luck.

[Unclenick]

At a glance, they are all reduced loads as far as pressure goes, and are quite safe. Whether they will function the stiff springs in a shorter pistol or not is another matter, but they are worth a try. If you are unsure how well bullet shapes other than round nose will feed in your gun, look for some 200 grain round nose bullets. Lighter bullet weight does the most to mitigate recoil with any given powder. They will also tend to shoot lower on the target, all else being equal, so use a sandbag to check that your error is just you and that the gun doesn't need its front sight lowered (or vice versa)?

[attila787]

I guess to make it clear. Since I already have some bullseye powder and 230 grain rounds nose bullets my speer manual recommends 5.3 charge. Correct me if I'm wrong I don't have the manual in front of me.

What's the lowest charge I can go????

[Brian Pfleuger]

The Lyman 49th lists a starting load of 3.8gr Bullseye for 230gr Speer TMJs seated at 1.275 COAL. Velocity is listed as 662 fps in a 5 inch barrel. I would suspect that you would be around 600, and likely less, in a 3" barrel (just a guess). That load should have very mild recoil.

[Unclenick]

That's correct. Speer tends to run high. The old military WWI era load was 5.0 grains of Bullseye. Trusted and reliable. 4.2 grains of Bullseye under a 185 grain JSWC is the equivalent of a commercial match load. The 3.8 grain load with your heavy bullet will be fine if it cycles the gun OK? If not, just work up until it does cycle the gun. But lighter bullets are what will reduce recoil the most.

[more forty fives]

I just tried some old bulls eye target loads from the 1960's that they used in bulls eye compation.They used from 3.5gr.of bullseye to 4gr.My STI would only cycle every other round or so with the 3.5 but the 3.8 ran great my daughter loves my 1911s now.Thats with 200gr.swc they said the loads would work with 185 or 200 gr.

[lee n. field]

Right now I have some bullets rated at 230 grain (5.3 bullseye) can I go lower? Would it be safe?

5.3 grains of bullseye? Per Lyman's 48th edition, that's max load for Bullseye and 230 grain TMJ. I generally (as in always) load 4.7 grains of Bullseye in a 230 .45.

So, yeah, maybe your recoil is a bit stout.

[attila787]

Hey, thanks for all the info. I'll be reloading some this weekend and try out different powder charges. I'll let you know how it goes.

[That'll Do]

My current pet load for 45 ACP is a 200 gr. lead semi-wadcutter over 4.2 gr. of Hodgdon Clays (not to be confused with Universal) with any standard large pistol primer.

The load is super clean and accurate too.

[zippy13]

For years, my .45 ACP paper puncher has been a 200 gr homecast SWC over 3.5 gr Bullseye. I works fine in my Colt with a 16# spring, but won't cycle in my buddy's Springfield with a 20#er.

[Fishslayer]

5.3 grains of bullseye? Per Lyman's 48th edition, that's max load for Bullseye and 230 grain TMJ. I generally (as in always) load 4.7 grains of Bullseye in a 230 .45.

So, yeah, maybe your recoil is a bit stout.

Alliant lists 5.7 of Bullseye.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...id=65&bdid=194

But yeah... 5.3 is pretty stout. I've had good luck with 4.6 and even 4.2 of Bullseye in my KP90 (11# spring).

A slower powder can help with recoil. Not sure how much.

[Unclenick]

Alliant borrowed that 4.4" barrel load and its velocity and 1.260" COL straight from the Speer manual and give that 5.7 grain number as their recipe. Speer gives it as the maximum load, with 5.2 grains to start. QuickLOAD, which has agreed pretty well with published military specs for the old 5.0 grain Bullseye load, suggests that in a tight barrel that 5.7 grain load will be in +P territory.

You should be able to tell by the velocity you get how tight your gun is containing that 5.7 grain load? If the velocity is 860 fps (4.4" tube; 890 fps from a 5" tube), then you are cruising along at just under 16,000 psi. But if your 4.4" tube gets about 930 fps (955 fps for 5"), then that load is racking up around 22,000 psi. Middle +P range. If it gets around 910 fps for the shorter barrel and 940 for the 5" barrel, then it is right up around 19-20,000 psi, where a maximum load should be. You'll just have to try it in your gun to see?

In a tight gun, the 5.2 grain starting load should equal military hardball, which has about 390 ft-lb of ME (5" barrel). Commercial hardball is normally loaded to about 350 ft-lb ME, which is closer to the old military load of 5.0 grains of Bullseye.

[kraigwy]

I use to have quite a stack Americn Rifle Mags. There was one from the 60s that recommended a load of 3.8 Grns of Bullseye, pushing a 250 Cast Lead RN bullet, for Bullseye Pistol Matches.

I tried it and it worked great. Even at 50 yards. I've been shooting this load for about 30 years, no problem feeding, and quite mild.

Back in the 80s when the army had a shortage of 45 Ball, I used this same load for my (Alaska NG) pistol team. It worked in our Hard Ball guns and our (45) wad cutter guns.

I still use that same load today, its easy on the gun and the shooter.

[jrs1911]

Using 5.2 gr of W231, a 230 gr plated RN with an OAL of 1.265 my SA Micro Compact (also a 3 incher) would not return to battery on every 4th or 5th round. Not good as it would lock it up. It was nearly impossible to cycle it manually when that happened. Using my standard target load of 5.7 gr of W231 it cycles fine. My recommendation is to start with a standard load and work your way down a couple of tenths of a grain at a time until you have reliability issues and then go up a couple.

[Unclenick]

Jrs1911,

That's not a standard target load. Hodgdon lists 5.3 grains of 231 as the maximum 231 charge with 230 grain bullet (lead or jacketed), while Hornady lists 5.7 grains as maximum. I agree that won't be the true limit in many guns, but maximum loads are only sure to be safe in some guns, not all, so it is always best to work the loads up toward a maximum load rather than the other way around. That's reloading safety 101.

A problem the short barrel guns have is the short, stiff recoil springs they require and their lower mass slide results in a narrower load tolerance range than a standard 1911 has. The higher start pressure jacketed bullets provide is a help with that. To get that sharper recoil with lead bullets to compress those short springs so they can strip and chamber a new round from the magazine effectively may mean going to a lower velocity load of a faster powder. That will get a lower velocity with the same peak pressure. Their faster initial pressure rise often achieves a recoil impulse that gets the slide going well enough to function.

[Fishslayer]

To get that sharper recoil with lead bullets to compress those short springs so they can strip and chamber a new round from the magazine effectively may mean going to a lower velocity load of a faster powder. That will get a lower velocity with the same peak pressure. Their faster initial pressure rise often achieves a recoil impulse that gets the slide going well enough to function.

I had a suspicion about that. I haven't really been loading long enough to get a huge database but my KP90 does seem to function better with light loads of Bullseye vs Green Dot under the 200gr LSWC. Your reason makes sense. Maybe the pistol will be less sensitive when it wears in a bit.

[Bongo Boy]

I don't think you'll find that reducing recoil, to the degree you're actually going to be able to, will help a lot with your shooting. My experience is that if the cause is anticipation, then recoil doesn't really have that much an impact one way or the other. You've already told yourself it's not going to hurt you...brain couldn't care less.

In fact, speaking for myself only, I find I anticipate the 'click' when begining a dryfire session from time to time. So, I know full-well there's NO recoil, but I still do a little wee blink. And sometimes it's only in SA mode. Your brain is not acting on anything logical to begin with, it's doing what it was designed to do for survival...and there's not much you can do to overcome that with rationale. I believe it has to be repetitive practice.

So, my recommendation is, regardless of load you come up with, spend a good bit of dryfire time and transfer what you learn there to live fire. It can be a challenge but it will overcome what logic cannot.

I use to have quite a stack Americn Rifle Mags. There was one from the 60s that recommended a load of 3.8 Grns of Bullseye, pushing a 250 Cast Lead RN bullet, for Bullseye Pistol Matches.

I've been shooting 250 gr RNFP cast bullets in .45 ACP for a while now, using 3.3-3.4gr Clays. At 3.4 gr Clays, it feeds very nicely in my P220, running a P226 9mm recoil spring. I've also just finished putting about 500 rds of it through my MP45c, where it has functioned without any problems using the stock spring. Recoil is very, very mild and accuracy is quite good for my purposes. I believe mv is around 650 fps, maybe a tad lower.

[Unclenick]

The old bullseye shooter's rule of thumb was three hammer drops in dry fire practice for each live round down range. If you shoot at a standard rapid fire pistol bullseye targets and get to where you can stay in the black 80% of the time or more with a .22 pistol, you'll know your trigger control is fair when your .45 scores come out about the same. This assumes your guns are of comparable accuracy.

[Sarge]

My favorite .45 ACP 'softball' (and pest, and small game) load is 4.0 or grains, or a tad more, of W231 under a 200 grain LSWC for 625-675 fps. It will run through well set-up, full length 1911's with the stock spring weight I don't know that it will cycle your shorty. If not, bump up to 5.0 grains for 826 fps (from 5" guns). The recoil is still soft but it will cycle about any 1911.

My typical experience with Officer-sized guns is that 230's is what they really like, for reliability. Hope you find a good softball load anyhow.