Help with Residence Laws

KennyS · January 17, 2012, 04:11 PM

Alright this is obviously my first post on this awesome forum. Got hooked on the hobby a while back when we were at a range. My brother lives up in WA and said he would buy me my first handgun. I told him what I liked and I have my mind made up on a Beretta 92 FS. I live down in Orlando, FL where I have been going to school. I still have Residency in WA via Drivers License and Registration on the car, so on, and you can only buy handguns in Florida if you have residency. So my brother is going to buy it in WA fly it down and give to me. Now my question, well the first one, what paperwork because he is giving it to me for free do we need to fill out. Or do we just print out a little written signature form? Second question, is it alright for me to have a legal handgun for awhile in a state i'm not a resident in?

Thanks All.

As you can see and read i'm new to the hobby and just want to keep things straight.

KennyS

**Aguila Blanca** · January 17, 2012, 04:56 PM

Wait -- you live in Florida but you want to keep things "straight" by involving both yourself AND your brother in an illegal, interstate transfer of a firearm? How is that keeping anything straight?

Sorry to be blunt, but if you live in Florida, I don't care what your driver's license or car registration say, you are NOT a resident of Washington state. In fact, if you are living in Florida and you haven't obtained a Florida driver's license and Florida registration, you're probably breaking the law already. But the motor vehicle laws in Florida are small potatoes compared to breaking Federal law by doing a straw purchase followed by an interstate transfer without going through an FFL in Florida.

Unless there's something of critical importance that you haven't told us, you're heading in the wrong direction.

KennyS · January 17, 2012, 05:03 PM

Ok I gotchya, this is why i'm doing homework before any of this actually happens. It looks like the best way to handle this is just to take hime to the local gun store down here and just buy it while he is here with me.

Thanks,
KennyS

Don H · January 17, 2012, 05:47 PM

Your brother can't legally purchase and take possession of a handgun in Florida because he isn't a resident of Florida.

James K · January 17, 2012, 06:16 PM

This is the sort of thing that can get to be a real problem.

Why not just have him send you money and let you buy what you want? Sure, a gift box with a neat bow on top sounds nicer than a money order, but the result will be the same and I am sure you will be no less grateful.

Jim

Kayser · January 17, 2012, 06:17 PM

Jeez guys, just tell him what he's asking. The way to do this is:

- Your brother buys the gun himself in WA through an FFL. He is now the legal owner.
- Your brother then transfers the gun to you also through an FFL.

2 FFL transactions. It's the only way to do it. This also assumes it is a.) legal for him to own the gun in WA, and b.) legal for -you- to own the gun in FL.

Any sort of interstate deal voids pretty much any possibility of private transfer. It has to go through a licensed dealer.

Smartest move : visit an FFL dealer yourself before anything happens and ask him how to do it. It sucks but gun laws are unforgiving. Don't mess around.

Don V. · January 17, 2012, 06:22 PM

Being a student, you are fine keeping your WA license. If you are paying FL instate tuition though, you need to get a FL DL.

James K · January 17, 2012, 06:58 PM

Might I point out that the transfer through a dealer or dealers will involve at least one fee of from $20 to $50? Plus shipping costs? It still seems to me that an envelope with a money order makes more sense.

Jim

KennyS · January 17, 2012, 07:02 PM

Kayser, that is what the plan was, i'm not sure how you summed it up in so few words but yes. This is what I wanted to do. I actually went to the gun store and they weren't sure... So... I have no clue now.

I thought if he buys it in Seattle, Comes down gives it to me we write up a transfer of ownership or go to the gun range and have them help we would be good. He has a permit and everything he owns is fully legal so we don't want to do this wrong. But I wasn't sure if I could own a handgun at my place for the remainder of my schooling just because it was Florida and I had a WA license.

KennyS

KennyS · January 17, 2012, 07:04 PM

Hey Jim, thanks for your input. The reason is I am a WA resident Legally I only am going to school in FL which is legal to maintain my residency, but I plan on moving somewhere after college here in the next few months so I didn't want to go threw the hassle of changing twice. So I was looking for a LEAGAL way to have my 92 FS with me here.

Thanks, KennyS

Isk · January 17, 2012, 07:44 PM

KennyS,

I'm sorry people have to jump all over you instead of providing insight. Kayser is correct. Follow his advice.

James K...as a Washington resident going to school in Florida he will not likely be able to purchase a gun from a Florida dealer. Most dealers like to see in-state driver's licenses (even if one might not actually be "required" by statute).

Young.Gun.612 · January 17, 2012, 07:46 PM

Does going to school in Florida really make him a Florida resident? If he pays out of state tuition and maintains WA residency, what's the problem in his brother gifting him the gun?

kennethlee · January 17, 2012, 07:50 PM

Hi Kenny--
I just looked up Florida gun ownership laws online and it looks to me like it would be legal and most efficient for you to purchase your handgun yourself in Florida. You may want to look into the state gun purchasing and ownership laws yourself.
It's a good post.

Kentucky-75 · January 17, 2012, 08:00 PM

Kenny, definitely talk a Florida FFL. In addition to the 3 day waiting period for a handgun (if you don't have a Florida Carry permit). In some states you have to be a resident for a period of time. Like 30 days being a resident before you can buy a handgun (KY). Plus your student ID might be or might not be a good enough ID to buy a firearm.

If your student ID is not a legal ID to buy a firearm (and the FFL will tell what is legal or not) , then you have to get a state ID from Florida that the FFL will accept, and then maybe have to wait to satisfy the residency time requirement (there might not be one in Florida..I don't know).

So if your brother was going to ship it from his FFL to your local FFL to Florida, make sure the ID you have now will allow you to obtain it...legally.
And remember the three day waiting period there.

Good Luck

dogtown tom · January 17, 2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Young.Gun.612 Does going to school in Florida really make him a Florida resident?

According to ATF it does.

KennyS · January 17, 2012, 09:18 PM

Ok ok ok i'm just transferring my drivers license tomorrow. Even though i'm only going to be down here probably for half a year. It seems like it will just cut out so many problems.

Thanks,
KennyS

KennyS · January 17, 2012, 09:21 PM

I have to say i am very impressed with the info that I got on here.

Thanks all.

I'm sure I will have plenty of items to post about in the near future when i have my new firearm.

KennyS

Tightwad · January 17, 2012, 09:32 PM

If he still maintains part-time residency in Washington State I dont think he is violating Florida Law. Part-time residents in Florida aren’t required to get a Florida driver license unless they want a job within the state or they want to put their children in the public school system.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 17, 2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tightwad

I dont think he is currently breaking Florida Law unless its changed in recent years.

Florida law is not the issue. The original question was about someone buying him a handgun in Washington and then handing it to him in Florida. That's an interstate transfer, involving Federal laws.

Further, the original question stated that he lives in Florida. The word "live" implies residency. The fact that someone lives in one state and has a driver's license and/or car registration in another state does not constitute legal residency. Heck, my late brother-in-law had three cars registered in Maine to beat our taxes. As far as I know he never set foot in Maine in his life -- I don't know how he got the registrations and I never wanted to ask, but he for sure was not a resident of Maine.

We're all blind here on the Internet. We can only answer questions based on the information provided.

larryh1108 · January 17, 2012, 10:21 PM

What would the FL law be if he had purchased his handgun in WA and then took it with him to school? Does FL allow out of state/part-time residents to have a handgun? I think FL has an out-of-state CC permit, is WA a reciprocal state? What are his rights of owning a handgun in FL with no permits?

imsobored152 · January 17, 2012, 10:38 PM

Dont go to oakridge range, if theyre prices are similar to their range prices, then its way too expensive. Maybe take a trip to the space coast side so yoi dont have the orlando markup

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using tapatalk

KennyS · January 17, 2012, 11:30 PM

Hey i'm so bored. I have been talking with the guys over at East Orangeand they have some nice prices at the range and their Fire Arm sales are well priced.

Thanks,
KennyS

dogtown tom · January 17, 2012, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Aguila Blanca....Further, the original question stated that he lives in Florida. The word "live" implies residency. The fact that someone lives in one state and has a driver's license and/or car registration in another state does not constitute legal residency.

Wrong.
What ATF considers as "state of residence" is not what a state may require for the purposes of issuing a drivers license.

The OP is a resident of Florida while he is living there attending college. When he returns to the family home in Washington he is a resident of Washington.

ATF says on page 5 of 6 of the Form 4473 (Instructions): "Question 13 State of Residence: The State in which an individual resides..."

All you guys need to do is read the instructions found in every Form 4473 you ever signed when you bought a firearm from a dealer.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2010-6.pdf

27 C.F.R. 178.11: MEANING OF TERMS
An out-of-State college student may establish residence in a State by residing and maintaining a home in a college dormitory or in a location off-campus during the school term.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ling-80-21.pdf

Quote:

ATF Rul. 80-21
[Status of ruling: Active]

The Bureau has been asked to determine the State of residence of out-of-State college students for purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968. “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 C.F.R. 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or maintains a home. The regulation also provides an example of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer months of the year. The regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y.

Applying the above example to out-of- State college students it is held, that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off-campus home is located. During the time out-of-State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State.

Buzzcook · January 18, 2012, 12:25 AM

If you're only going to remain in Florida for 6 months, then why not wait?

afaik guns are less expensive in Florida than they are here in Washington.
If you can legally buy and keep a gun in Florida( I don't know if that is the case) you will still need to ship it to a Washington FFL when you return.

imsobored152 · January 18, 2012, 12:37 AM

why would they have to ship a gun they already own to an FFL in washington? can't just pack it up with the rest of your stuff when they move back?

January 17, 2012, 04:11 PM	#1
KennyS Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 7	Help with Residence Laws Alright this is obviously my first post on this awesome forum. Got hooked on the hobby a while back when we were at a range. My brother lives up in WA and said he would buy me my first handgun. I told him what I liked and I have my mind made up on a Beretta 92 FS. I live down in Orlando, FL where I have been going to school. I still have Residency in WA via Drivers License and Registration on the car, so on, and you can only buy handguns in Florida if you have residency. So my brother is going to buy it in WA fly it down and give to me. Now my question, well the first one, what paperwork because he is giving it to me for free do we need to fill out. Or do we just print out a little written signature form? Second question, is it alright for me to have a legal handgun for awhile in a state i'm not a resident in? Thanks All. As you can see and read i'm new to the hobby and just want to keep things straight. KennyS

January 17, 2012, 05:47 PM	#4
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,704	Your brother can't legally purchase and take possession of a handgun in Florida because he isn't a resident of Florida. __________________ Don http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/

January 17, 2012, 06:17 PM	#6
Kayser Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2002 Location: Illinois :( Posts: 550	Jeez guys, just tell him what he's asking. The way to do this is: - Your brother buys the gun himself in WA through an FFL. He is now the legal owner. - Your brother then transfers the gun to you also through an FFL. 2 FFL transactions. It's the only way to do it. This also assumes it is a.) legal for him to own the gun in WA, and b.) legal for -you- to own the gun in FL. Any sort of interstate deal voids pretty much any possibility of private transfer. It has to go through a licensed dealer. Smartest move : visit an FFL dealer yourself before anything happens and ask him how to do it. It sucks but gun laws are unforgiving. Don't mess around. __________________ ----------------- Box Of Truth Afficionado!

January 17, 2012, 07:44 PM	#11
Isk Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2011 Location: Alaska Posts: 206	KennyS, I'm sorry people have to jump all over you instead of providing insight. Kayser is correct. Follow his advice. James K...as a Washington resident going to school in Florida he will not likely be able to purchase a gun from a Florida dealer. Most dealers like to see in-state driver's licenses (even if one might not actually be "required" by statute). __________________ The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave. -James Burgh

January 17, 2012, 07:50 PM	#13
kennethlee Member Join Date: December 17, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 55	Hi Kenny-- I just looked up Florida gun ownership laws online and it looks to me like it would be legal and most efficient for you to purchase your handgun yourself in Florida. You may want to look into the state gun purchasing and ownership laws yourself. It's a good post. __________________ You become what you practice.

January 17, 2012, 04:56 PM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	Wait -- you live in Florida but you want to keep things "straight" by involving both yourself AND your brother in an illegal, interstate transfer of a firearm? How is that keeping anything straight? Sorry to be blunt, but if you live in Florida, I don't care what your driver's license or car registration say, you are NOT a resident of Washington state. In fact, if you are living in Florida and you haven't obtained a Florida driver's license and Florida registration, you're probably breaking the law already. But the motor vehicle laws in Florida are small potatoes compared to breaking Federal law by doing a straw purchase followed by an interstate transfer without going through an FFL in Florida. Unless there's something of critical importance that you haven't told us, you're heading in the wrong direction.

January 17, 2012, 05:03 PM	#3
KennyS Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 7	Ok I gotchya, this is why i'm doing homework before any of this actually happens. It looks like the best way to handle this is just to take hime to the local gun store down here and just buy it while he is here with me. Thanks, KennyS

January 17, 2012, 06:16 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	This is the sort of thing that can get to be a real problem. Why not just have him send you money and let you buy what you want? Sure, a gift box with a neat bow on top sounds nicer than a money order, but the result will be the same and I am sure you will be no less grateful. Jim

January 17, 2012, 06:22 PM	#7
Don V. Member Join Date: January 14, 2012 Posts: 31	Being a student, you are fine keeping your WA license. If you are paying FL instate tuition though, you need to get a FL DL.

January 17, 2012, 06:58 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Might I point out that the transfer through a dealer or dealers will involve at least one fee of from $20 to $50? Plus shipping costs? It still seems to me that an envelope with a money order makes more sense. Jim

January 17, 2012, 07:02 PM	#9
KennyS Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 7	Kayser, that is what the plan was, i'm not sure how you summed it up in so few words but yes. This is what I wanted to do. I actually went to the gun store and they weren't sure... So... I have no clue now. I thought if he buys it in Seattle, Comes down gives it to me we write up a transfer of ownership or go to the gun range and have them help we would be good. He has a permit and everything he owns is fully legal so we don't want to do this wrong. But I wasn't sure if I could own a handgun at my place for the remainder of my schooling just because it was Florida and I had a WA license. KennyS

January 17, 2012, 07:04 PM	#10
KennyS Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 7	Hey Jim, thanks for your input. The reason is I am a WA resident Legally I only am going to school in FL which is legal to maintain my residency, but I plan on moving somewhere after college here in the next few months so I didn't want to go threw the hassle of changing twice. So I was looking for a LEAGAL way to have my 92 FS with me here. Thanks, KennyS

January 17, 2012, 07:46 PM	#12
Young.Gun.612 Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 400	Does going to school in Florida really make him a Florida resident? If he pays out of state tuition and maintains WA residency, what's the problem in his brother gifting him the gun?

January 17, 2012, 08:00 PM	#14
Kentucky-75 Member Join Date: October 22, 2011 Posts: 31	Kenny, definitely talk a Florida FFL. In addition to the 3 day waiting period for a handgun (if you don't have a Florida Carry permit). In some states you have to be a resident for a period of time. Like 30 days being a resident before you can buy a handgun (KY). Plus your student ID might be or might not be a good enough ID to buy a firearm. If your student ID is not a legal ID to buy a firearm (and the FFL will tell what is legal or not) , then you have to get a state ID from Florida that the FFL will accept, and then maybe have to wait to satisfy the residency time requirement (there might not be one in Florida..I don't know). So if your brother was going to ship it from his FFL to your local FFL to Florida, make sure the ID you have now will allow you to obtain it...legally. And remember the three day waiting period there. Good Luck

January 17, 2012, 09:18 PM	#16
KennyS Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 7	Ok ok ok i'm just transferring my drivers license tomorrow. Even though i'm only going to be down here probably for half a year. It seems like it will just cut out so many problems. Thanks, KennyS

January 17, 2012, 09:21 PM	#17
KennyS Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 7	I have to say i am very impressed with the info that I got on here. Thanks all. I'm sure I will have plenty of items to post about in the near future when i have my new firearm. KennyS

January 17, 2012, 09:32 PM	#18
Tightwad Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Posts: 44	If he still maintains part-time residency in Washington State I dont think he is violating Florida Law. Part-time residents in Florida aren’t required to get a Florida driver license unless they want a job within the state or they want to put their children in the public school system.

January 17, 2012, 10:21 PM	#20
larryh1108 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Location: NC Posts: 813	What would the FL law be if he had purchased his handgun in WA and then took it with him to school? Does FL allow out of state/part-time residents to have a handgun? I think FL has an out-of-state CC permit, is WA a reciprocal state? What are his rights of owning a handgun in FL with no permits? __________________ Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

January 17, 2012, 10:38 PM	#21
imsobored152 Member Join Date: January 16, 2012 Posts: 45	Dont go to oakridge range, if theyre prices are similar to their range prices, then its way too expensive. Maybe take a trip to the space coast side so yoi dont have the orlando markup Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using tapatalk

January 17, 2012, 11:30 PM	#22
KennyS Junior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 7	Hey i'm so bored. I have been talking with the guys over at East Orangeand they have some nice prices at the range and their Fire Arm sales are well priced. Thanks, KennyS

January 18, 2012, 12:25 AM	#24
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	If you're only going to remain in Florida for 6 months, then why not wait? afaik guns are less expensive in Florida than they are here in Washington. If you can legally buy and keep a gun in Florida( I don't know if that is the case) you will still need to ship it to a Washington FFL when you return.

January 18, 2012, 12:37 AM	#25
imsobored152 Member Join Date: January 16, 2012 Posts: 45	why would they have to ship a gun they already own to an FFL in washington? can't just pack it up with the rest of your stuff when they move back? Last edited by imsobored152; January 18, 2012 at 03:59 AM.