Help with 1853 Enfield replica...

Tamara · November 19, 2004, 08:19 AM

How much faux FFG is a normal load in this thing? How about sulfur-free: Will Triple Seven go off reliably with just a musket cap?

edm1 · November 19, 2004, 09:32 AM

I THINK, that you could use up to 85 grains of BP in it. As for the other question, A musket cap is hot enough. Its hotter than a #11 plus the nipple is much bigger so you get a bigger opening for the hotter cap. But tripple seven won't smell as good as Goex

I forgot to say, and forgive me if you already know this: 85 grains is for BP or Pyrodex. I haven't messed around with the newer stuff so I don't know if it is volume wise the same. Pyrodex and BP will measure out the same, For instance if you use 100grains of BP then the same load in Pyrodex will take up the same amount of space in the scoop or tube. I know that with the Swiss powder it takes less to shoot the same.

Jim Watson · November 19, 2004, 10:31 AM

Standard load was 2 3/4 drams = 75 grains of real powder, probably Fg, under a Burton/Enfield bullet ("Minie ball".) A rifle musket is not a magnum.

Load the same VOLUME of fake. There are a lot of measures available marked in the "grains volume" oxymoron. Close enough.

777 is hotter than real powder or other fakes so don't soup it up. The gun will likely stand it but will the skirts of the Minie?

I bet a top hat cap will fire 777.

faraway · November 19, 2004, 11:35 PM

Keep it on the low side, the comment about the 'magnum' is well placed. 60-70 Grains is enough. On the originals and close replicas the barrel walls are fairly thin (albiet obviously better steel on the newer versions).
If your using paper cartridges, go 3-5 or so grains above, as some it lost in the biting (ripping) of the cartridge.
And heavy charges will, as noted, deform the skirts of the minie. Takes the accuracy right out. Really no value to a heavy charge in a RM, as the powder expansion is more or less expended well down the barrel. The long barrels seemed to have been tied to the rifling, and the bayonet situation. Also with real heavy charges, and the larger cone hole of the RM, there is a better chance of fragmenting, blowing the cap. Musket caps do that enough, without the extra assistance. Or at least it seemed so, took mine up to 90gr and that happened more than usual.
When loading it, on the last set with the ramrod, tap the butt a little on the ground. Was a standard practice with the originals, as it seated the ball directly on the powder, speeded loading, and compensated for fouling. Although the foulings not as much of an issue in your case.

BigG · November 20, 2004, 12:01 AM

60 to 70 of faux BP by MEASURE (not weight) is pretty close to perfect for those leaden shot glasses. If the hammer starts blowing back to half cock, you know it's a little too hot.

Welcome to the bp addiction!

Tamara · November 20, 2004, 06:33 AM

Quote:

But tripple seven won't smell as good as Goex

My fear and loathing comes from the fact that we've just finished the third season of the year at work.

(There are four seasons in the gun shop calendar, just like the regular calendar, but instead of "Spring", "Summer", "Fall", and "Winter", they are "Choke Tube", "No Customers", "Stuck Breechplug", and "Mount & Boresight".

)

drinks · November 20, 2004, 10:49 PM

Tamara;
777 weights;
50gr eq. FFG =35gr 777
65gr eq. FFG =50gr 777
80gr eq. FFG = 62gr 777
This is very close, I use the Lee powder dippers at the range and have good results with those.
Don

faraway · November 22, 2004, 08:50 PM

The cap fragmenting, more common it seems with the Remington Musket caps, don't know why.
Also, if the cone has been dry fired a bit, that seems to play a part.
Actually blowing the cap off completely, never done that, and gods what manner of charge would that take?.
Remember, if you want to use this in a really traditional manner (as our long ago ancestors, North and South did) raise the charges slightly. That way the ramrod travels farther (it seems at Petersburg one of the chief sources of entertainment was lobbing extra ramrods out over the lines, and in real fights that mistake wasn't uncommon)
And then add a fifth season at your shop, the recrowning of muskets...

November 19, 2004, 09:32 AM	#2
edm1 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Kentucky Posts: 111	I THINK, that you could use up to 85 grains of BP in it. As for the other question, A musket cap is hot enough. Its hotter than a #11 plus the nipple is much bigger so you get a bigger opening for the hotter cap. But tripple seven won't smell as good as Goex I forgot to say, and forgive me if you already know this: 85 grains is for BP or Pyrodex. I haven't messed around with the newer stuff so I don't know if it is volume wise the same. Pyrodex and BP will measure out the same, For instance if you use 100grains of BP then the same load in Pyrodex will take up the same amount of space in the scoop or tube. I know that with the Swiss powder it takes less to shoot the same. Last edited by edm1; November 19, 2004 at 03:47 PM.

November 20, 2004, 12:01 AM	#5
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	60 to 70 of faux BP by MEASURE (not weight) is pretty close to perfect for those leaden shot glasses. If the hammer starts blowing back to half cock, you know it's a little too hot. Welcome to the bp addiction! __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

November 20, 2004, 10:49 PM	#7
drinks Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Posts: 405	777 Tamara; 777 weights; 50gr eq. FFG =35gr 777 65gr eq. FFG =50gr 777 80gr eq. FFG = 62gr 777 This is very close, I use the Lee powder dippers at the range and have good results with those. Don

November 19, 2004, 08:19 AM	#1
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Help with 1853 Enfield replica... How much faux FFG is a normal load in this thing? How about sulfur-free: Will Triple Seven go off reliably with just a musket cap? __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

November 19, 2004, 10:31 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Standard load was 2 3/4 drams = 75 grains of real powder, probably Fg, under a Burton/Enfield bullet ("Minie ball".) A rifle musket is not a magnum. Load the same VOLUME of fake. There are a lot of measures available marked in the "grains volume" oxymoron. Close enough. 777 is hotter than real powder or other fakes so don't soup it up. The gun will likely stand it but will the skirts of the Minie? I bet a top hat cap will fire 777.

November 19, 2004, 11:35 PM	#4
faraway Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2001 Location: ne montana Posts: 437	Keep it on the low side, the comment about the 'magnum' is well placed. 60-70 Grains is enough. On the originals and close replicas the barrel walls are fairly thin (albiet obviously better steel on the newer versions). If your using paper cartridges, go 3-5 or so grains above, as some it lost in the biting (ripping) of the cartridge. And heavy charges will, as noted, deform the skirts of the minie. Takes the accuracy right out. Really no value to a heavy charge in a RM, as the powder expansion is more or less expended well down the barrel. The long barrels seemed to have been tied to the rifling, and the bayonet situation. Also with real heavy charges, and the larger cone hole of the RM, there is a better chance of fragmenting, blowing the cap. Musket caps do that enough, without the extra assistance. Or at least it seemed so, took mine up to 90gr and that happened more than usual. When loading it, on the last set with the ramrod, tap the butt a little on the ground. Was a standard practice with the originals, as it seated the ball directly on the powder, speeded loading, and compensated for fouling. Although the foulings not as much of an issue in your case.

November 22, 2004, 08:50 PM	#8
faraway Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2001 Location: ne montana Posts: 437	The cap fragmenting, more common it seems with the Remington Musket caps, don't know why. Also, if the cone has been dry fired a bit, that seems to play a part. Actually blowing the cap off completely, never done that, and gods what manner of charge would that take?. Remember, if you want to use this in a really traditional manner (as our long ago ancestors, North and South did) raise the charges slightly. That way the ramrod travels farther (it seems at Petersburg one of the chief sources of entertainment was lobbing extra ramrods out over the lines, and in real fights that mistake wasn't uncommon) And then add a fifth season at your shop, the recrowning of muskets...