Starting to reload .40S&W

Fullthrottle · February 14, 2010, 06:44 PM

I have been loading .38spcl and .357mag for a while now. I have just recieved my .40 loading dies, soon to get started.

I have a question, with all the talk about "Glocked" brass, does the Springfield XD40 do the same to brass? (Would it then be called XD'd brass?)

I have not saved any brass from my .40 (DOH), definatly will from here on out! I have not looked closely at the brass, so I am not sure the outcome after firing.
Thanks for any info you can provide!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot · February 14, 2010, 07:28 PM

Afternoon Fullthrottle.

First I had heard about the glop situation was after my son had an issue with a 40 in a different make.

The gun smith told him about the brass and the issue about the glocks firing out of battery.

From what I have seen on the net, photographs etc. I think an experienced reloader will quickly pick up on brass which has been stressed by firing in a defective gun.

The bulge was very clear and easy to see, and personally I would not load a case stressed in this manner.

Other then that, I would not worry about it.

Many autos have a chamber which gives less support to a case then say a wheelgun or a rifle, but they were designed this way and have functioned in such a manner for many years. No problem.

But, add to that a situation in which the gun fires when the slide has not returned all the way to battery and suddenly the brass really suffers, but in a way that is usually clearly visable.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

gearheadpyro · February 14, 2010, 10:07 PM

The glock is the only gun I am aware of that does this to brass.

RCBS and Lee both make a "De-Glocking" die that supposedly removes the bulge from the cases. I would prefer to shoot brass that hasn't had this much stress on it, but many shoot it with all limbs in tact.

Sevens · February 14, 2010, 11:36 PM

The big problem with the pistols that blow up is that nobody knows exactly what the conditions were when it went. REALLY. We can make a lot of educated guesses, but unless we set up pistols in specific conditions to fail, and then make them fail, we won't know.

Here's what I mean. Right before a pistol blows, be it a Glock or anything else, this could happen:

1) Could be that a ham-fisted reloader double charged a case. That quite often gets the blame... but I don't think it's that common.

2) Could be that the proper charge was in there, but the case didn't have solid mouth tension on the bullet and the bullet set back in the process of feeding. When that happens, the internal space reduces and the pressure SKYROCKETS.

3) Could be that niether 1 or 2 happened, but that the pistol fired out of battery, before the case was fully chambered. With little or no support at the case head, NO piece of brass made by anyone can possibly contain the explosion and resulting damage. That would be a firearm issue, not related to the ammo.

4) Could be that a ham-fisted reloader built a round with an accidentally reduced powder charge and pulled the trigger which then lodged a bullet in the barrel. No kaboom, but the NEXT round that is fully loaded meets a nearly unmovable object in the bore and the pressure skyrockets, and the pistol lets go.

5) Could be none of 1-4, and maybe it really IS a piece of Glock'd brass that let loose. And FWIW, I know we are talking about an XD here, but .40 cal Glocks have been improved over the years to offer more case head support than they originally did.

I'm saying that it could be any of the above reasons or even another couple I haven't thought of... but we tend to blame it on weak brass or Glock .40's or "double loads" of powder.

Sorry I don't know if XD .40's smilie up brass... I know that's what you asked. I can tell you that a couple of companies have recently come out with special push-thru sizing dies that attempt to "remove" Glock smilies from .40 cal brass. This begs the question... can you simply iron out a weakness in brass, or just make it "appear" fixed?

I sure don't have the answer to that one!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot · February 15, 2010, 12:45 PM

Just IMHO, but when a piece of brass has clearly be glopped, that brass belongs in the scrap bucket.

Now I know some chambers are on the larger side of manufacturing tolerances or possibly brass is on the minus side of the tolerances OR possibly we see a combination of these factors which leave a slight bulge around the case ahead of the case head, but if the brass has been glopped this typically shows up as a bulge only on one side of the case. Sometimes quite a large or huge bulge.

Personally, I don't care what company makes a die to smooth out these bulges, when a case has been stressed to this point it is time to recycle that case.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

ZeSpectre · February 15, 2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Just IMHO, but when a piece of brass has clearly be glopped, that brass belongs in the scrap bucket.

+1 on that. It might be fine for lower pressure "target" rounds but that kind of stress just about has to create a weakness in the brass and I don't want to be the one pulling the trigger when it lets loose.

Trying to recover that sort of brass is, in my book, "penny wise but pound foolish".

PopespcWorks · February 15, 2010, 01:44 PM

Been loading for my XDM40 for about 6 months now. I haven't had any problems with the cases. I bought 1000 once fired Speer brass on Gunbroker for about $40. They have worked fine.

Krieger9 · February 15, 2010, 03:12 PM

My 22 had the factory barrel when I bought it and I purchased a StormLakes barrel for reloading. You can certainly see the difference when you look at how the round fits into the barrel.

My Glock factory barrel does not have the entire case supported near the base. My StormLake does. It's quite apparent when examining. Particularly since it's not the entire case that's unsupported, but just along the bottom to help it feed.

From everything I've been able to determine, this sounds like the best cause / blame point for the Glock .40 Kabooms.

I haven't heard of any other barrel, but this is what I'd check to verify. Even though I haven't found anything conclusive either, I didn't want to experiment or find out the hard way.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot · February 15, 2010, 03:19 PM

Well, re-loading .40S&W cases is not in and of itself the problem.

So, we should have no more concern with loading those cases then any other, EXCEPT in the situation where the case has been clearly glopped or in some other way stressed/damaged.

Those cases are clearly and easily visable and should be scrapped rather then run through some die to iron them out.

Other then that, shoot, reload and enjoy.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Fullthrottle · February 15, 2010, 11:37 PM

WOW, alot of responses......mostly about "GLOCK BRAND" of guns. Thanks to all, for the input! Maybe I wasn't clear.........I am not trying hot loads, but plinking/factory loads. I don't care to correct "glocked" loads, just wondering if the XD has the same problem!

PopespcWorks: Thank you for your input, I can't purchase the "M" version in my state, but the heart of the gun is the same, so, ......!

As others have stated, the belly should be obvious?!(easily seen with the naked eye!)?

ZeSpectre · February 16, 2010, 07:44 AM

not answering the actual question....Guilty as charged (DOH!)

The XD-40 has a fully supported chamber.

Ronbert · February 16, 2010, 09:22 AM

Take the barrel out of your pistol.

Place a case or round in the chamber. Closely examine how much of the brass you can see around the edges of the chamber.

If you can do this with a Glock barrel you'll see it right away.

In a Glock barrel there will be an area where the brass shows much more than just the rim. If the area that shows brass goes significantly up the side of the case then you should be concerned.

My Sig seems to have some brass showing to both sides of the chamber. I don't know if it's a problem (haven't shot it yet). A friend's Kel-Tec carbine in .40 shows much like a Glock. I don't know if it's a problem - he hasn't reloaded ammo from it yet.

Any amount of unsupported chamber should cause you to be extra cautious about high-end loads and bullet seating depth as you reload. (.40 is sensitive to these - a small change can cause a big pressure difference)

Doby45 · February 16, 2010, 09:44 AM

I reckon I need to post a picture tonight of my Glock 23 barrel which is fully supported. My 22 was also fully supported. I think too many people make vastly incorrect claims as to a whole line of handguns. My H&K USP40 had a more unsupported chamber than my G22 did, but no one ever mentions the H&K as having a very loose/unsupported chamber. Wonder if that is because fewer people either have or can afford the H&K model of handguns?

jepp2 · February 16, 2010, 10:31 PM

This help:

Fullthrottle · February 16, 2010, 11:27 PM

Thank you very much Jepp2, that there answered my questions!

Also thanks Ronbert, I had not yet done so but the pics showed me what I need to know.....also I did pull the barrel to double check.

You guys are a great help, I appriciate all the info I can get!

Uncle Buck · February 17, 2010, 08:35 AM

Jepp - Great pictures and a very good way to illustrate the unsupported chamber discussion. Thanks

SL1 · February 17, 2010, 08:56 AM

If you compare the loacations of the "guppy bellies" in the so-called "Glocked" brass to Jepp2's pictures of the areas where various barrels do not support the brass, they do not seem to match.

This leads me to question whether these "guppy bellies" are not more related to extra-large chambers diameters or to the dynamics of the ejection cycle causing brass to be exposed to abnormally high pressures as it is withdrawn from the chamber.

SL1

February 14, 2010, 06:44 PM	#1
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	Starting to reload .40S&W I have been loading .38spcl and .357mag for a while now. I have just recieved my .40 loading dies, soon to get started. I have a question, with all the talk about "Glocked" brass, does the Springfield XD40 do the same to brass? (Would it then be called XD'd brass?) I have not saved any brass from my .40 (DOH), definatly will from here on out! I have not looked closely at the brass, so I am not sure the outcome after firing. Thanks for any info you can provide! __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

February 14, 2010, 10:07 PM	#3
gearheadpyro Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 169	The glock is the only gun I am aware of that does this to brass. RCBS and Lee both make a "De-Glocking" die that supposedly removes the bulge from the cases. I would prefer to shoot brass that hasn't had this much stress on it, but many shoot it with all limbs in tact. __________________ www.southernmarksman.com Owner of & Chief Instructor for The Southern Marksman, LLC NRA Life Member, NRA CRSO, Multi-Discipline NRA Certified Instructor

February 14, 2010, 11:36 PM	#4
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,755	The big problem with the pistols that blow up is that nobody knows exactly what the conditions were when it went. REALLY. We can make a lot of educated guesses, but unless we set up pistols in specific conditions to fail, and then make them fail, we won't know. Here's what I mean. Right before a pistol blows, be it a Glock or anything else, this could happen: 1) Could be that a ham-fisted reloader double charged a case. That quite often gets the blame... but I don't think it's that common. 2) Could be that the proper charge was in there, but the case didn't have solid mouth tension on the bullet and the bullet set back in the process of feeding. When that happens, the internal space reduces and the pressure SKYROCKETS. 3) Could be that niether 1 or 2 happened, but that the pistol fired out of battery, before the case was fully chambered. With little or no support at the case head, NO piece of brass made by anyone can possibly contain the explosion and resulting damage. That would be a firearm issue, not related to the ammo. 4) Could be that a ham-fisted reloader built a round with an accidentally reduced powder charge and pulled the trigger which then lodged a bullet in the barrel. No kaboom, but the NEXT round that is fully loaded meets a nearly unmovable object in the bore and the pressure skyrockets, and the pistol lets go. 5) Could be none of 1-4, and maybe it really IS a piece of Glock'd brass that let loose. And FWIW, I know we are talking about an XD here, but .40 cal Glocks have been improved over the years to offer more case head support than they originally did. I'm saying that it could be any of the above reasons or even another couple I haven't thought of... but we tend to blame it on weak brass or Glock .40's or "double loads" of powder. Sorry I don't know if XD .40's smilie up brass... I know that's what you asked. I can tell you that a couple of companies have recently come out with special push-thru sizing dies that attempt to "remove" Glock smilies from .40 cal brass. This begs the question... can you simply iron out a weakness in brass, or just make it "appear" fixed? I sure don't have the answer to that one! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 15, 2010, 01:44 PM	#7
PopespcWorks Junior Member Join Date: February 15, 2010 Location: Montpelier, Idaho Posts: 4	Been loading for my XDM40 for about 6 months now. I haven't had any problems with the cases. I bought 1000 once fired Speer brass on Gunbroker for about $40. They have worked fine. __________________ Colt 45 ACP Govt Springfield XDM 40 Taurus PT111 Millennium Pro 9MM Ruger P85 MKII 9MM

February 15, 2010, 03:12 PM	#8
Krieger9 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2009 Location: Howell Michigan Posts: 130	My replacement My 22 had the factory barrel when I bought it and I purchased a StormLakes barrel for reloading. You can certainly see the difference when you look at how the round fits into the barrel. My Glock factory barrel does not have the entire case supported near the base. My StormLake does. It's quite apparent when examining. Particularly since it's not the entire case that's unsupported, but just along the bottom to help it feed. From everything I've been able to determine, this sounds like the best cause / blame point for the Glock .40 Kabooms. I haven't heard of any other barrel, but this is what I'd check to verify. Even though I haven't found anything conclusive either, I didn't want to experiment or find out the hard way.

February 14, 2010, 07:28 PM	#2
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Deary, Ideeeeeeho Posts: 531	Afternoon Fullthrottle. First I had heard about the glop situation was after my son had an issue with a 40 in a different make. The gun smith told him about the brass and the issue about the glocks firing out of battery. From what I have seen on the net, photographs etc. I think an experienced reloader will quickly pick up on brass which has been stressed by firing in a defective gun. The bulge was very clear and easy to see, and personally I would not load a case stressed in this manner. Other then that, I would not worry about it. Many autos have a chamber which gives less support to a case then say a wheelgun or a rifle, but they were designed this way and have functioned in such a manner for many years. No problem. But, add to that a situation in which the gun fires when the slide has not returned all the way to battery and suddenly the brass really suffers, but in a way that is usually clearly visable. Keep em coming! Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

February 15, 2010, 12:45 PM	#5
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Deary, Ideeeeeeho Posts: 531	Just IMHO, but when a piece of brass has clearly be glopped, that brass belongs in the scrap bucket. Now I know some chambers are on the larger side of manufacturing tolerances or possibly brass is on the minus side of the tolerances OR possibly we see a combination of these factors which leave a slight bulge around the case ahead of the case head, but if the brass has been glopped this typically shows up as a bulge only on one side of the case. Sometimes quite a large or huge bulge. Personally, I don't care what company makes a die to smooth out these bulges, when a case has been stressed to this point it is time to recycle that case. Keep em coming! Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

February 15, 2010, 03:19 PM	#9
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Deary, Ideeeeeeho Posts: 531	Well, re-loading .40S&W cases is not in and of itself the problem. So, we should have no more concern with loading those cases then any other, EXCEPT in the situation where the case has been clearly glopped or in some other way stressed/damaged. Those cases are clearly and easily visable and should be scrapped rather then run through some die to iron them out. Other then that, shoot, reload and enjoy. Keep em coming! Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

February 15, 2010, 11:37 PM	#10
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	WOW, alot of responses......mostly about "GLOCK BRAND" of guns. Thanks to all, for the input! Maybe I wasn't clear.........I am not trying hot loads, but plinking/factory loads. I don't care to correct "glocked" loads, just wondering if the XD has the same problem! PopespcWorks: Thank you for your input, I can't purchase the "M" version in my state, but the heart of the gun is the same, so, ......! As others have stated, the belly should be obvious?!(easily seen with the naked eye!)? __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

February 16, 2010, 07:44 AM	#11
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	not answering the actual question....Guilty as charged (DOH!) The XD-40 has a fully supported chamber. __________________ "The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on"

February 16, 2010, 09:22 AM	#12
Ronbert Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2009 Location: Ft. Collins, CO. Posts: 398	Take the barrel out of your pistol. Place a case or round in the chamber. Closely examine how much of the brass you can see around the edges of the chamber. If you can do this with a Glock barrel you'll see it right away. In a Glock barrel there will be an area where the brass shows much more than just the rim. If the area that shows brass goes significantly up the side of the case then you should be concerned. My Sig seems to have some brass showing to both sides of the chamber. I don't know if it's a problem (haven't shot it yet). A friend's Kel-Tec carbine in .40 shows much like a Glock. I don't know if it's a problem - he hasn't reloaded ammo from it yet. Any amount of unsupported chamber should cause you to be extra cautious about high-end loads and bullet seating depth as you reload. (.40 is sensitive to these - a small change can cause a big pressure difference)

February 16, 2010, 09:44 AM	#13
Doby45 Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: Powder Springs, GA Posts: 213	I reckon I need to post a picture tonight of my Glock 23 barrel which is fully supported. My 22 was also fully supported. I think too many people make vastly incorrect claims as to a whole line of handguns. My H&K USP40 had a more unsupported chamber than my G22 did, but no one ever mentions the H&K as having a very loose/unsupported chamber. Wonder if that is because fewer people either have or can afford the H&K model of handguns?

February 16, 2010, 10:31 PM	#14
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	This help:

February 16, 2010, 11:27 PM	#15
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	Great pics Thank you very much Jepp2, that there answered my questions! Also thanks Ronbert, I had not yet done so but the pics showed me what I need to know.....also I did pull the barrel to double check. You guys are a great help, I appriciate all the info I can get! __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

February 17, 2010, 08:35 AM	#16
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Jepp - Great pictures and a very good way to illustrate the unsupported chamber discussion. Thanks __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

February 17, 2010, 08:56 AM	#17
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	If you compare the loacations of the "guppy bellies" in the so-called "Glocked" brass to Jepp2's pictures of the areas where various barrels do not support the brass, they do not seem to match. This leads me to question whether these "guppy bellies" are not more related to extra-large chambers diameters or to the dynamics of the ejection cycle causing brass to be exposed to abnormally high pressures as it is withdrawn from the chamber. SL1

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