Uberti cartridge cylinder soft as mush

[CaptainCrossman]

yesterday I took a 38 special caliber Uberti open top cylinder to my friend's machine shop, to machine down the O.D. for a project I'm doing- he expected the lathe to chatter when it went over the bolt notches in the cylinder

while turning the cylinder on that lathe, there was no chatter at all- he said "man is this soft- it hasn't been heat treated"- we were amazed how easily it turned in the lathe- it was like machining a piece of butter

this proves that the repro cartridge guns are soft as mush, just like the C-B guns

after seeing this I would recommend NOT buying any Italian make repro gun for the jacked-up new prices they are being sold at. They are not a good value IMHO. A $500 gun should have the proper heat treated steel. There are much better values out there for $500, such as a modern bolt action or lever action rifle made in USA with hardened steel, or modern single action revolver like the Ruger Vaquero, or a vintage made in USA gun. It is very disappointing to see this inferior soft metallurgy in a $500 gun- because these guns are much cheaper to make this way without the heat treating, yet the prices are right up there with a modern gun, or even higher.

example: I passed on a Ruger Vaquero SA NIB unfired at a gun show, for only $300, and chambered in 38/357- made in USA with hardened steel barrel and cylinder. At least 3x the gun of any Italian repro- and I could shoot BP cartridges in that just as easily, as any repro- with much better strength.

historically this has always been the case with BP C-B pistols from Italy, but in the past these guns were $100-$200 new, even the Walker only a few years ago was only $289

not $500.

$500 for a soft gun, is a ripoff, nothing more, nothing less. The only repro strong enough for heavy shooting, is a topstrap design, i.e. Colt Peacemaker, Remington, ROA.

from now on the only repro guns I will purchase at these hefty importer prices, will be stainless steel- the price is high but at least the metallurgy is adequate and correct

[olmontanaboy]

this proves that the repro cartridge guns are soft as mush, just like the C-B guns

Cap, this post does proves one thing to me,,,probably not what you might suspect.

[pohill]

Spread the word - Italian-made BP guns are terrible. Don't buy them, anyone, anywhere, anytime. They are so soft they are dangerous. They will blow up in your hands the first time you use them. Beware. Stay away. Danger!
And stay away from GOEX FFFG. Studies show that it makes your "boys" turn into ovaries. Danger! And Bore Butter makes you love Broadway musicals. Don't get me started on Remington #11 caps...
Great. Now, if everyone listens to this advice, the prices will drop, way down. Fantastic.

[olmontanaboy]

Great. Now, if everyone listens to this advice, the prices will drop, way down. Fantastic.

LOL

[Indian Outlaw]

Spread the word - Italian-made BP guns are terrible. Don't buy them, anyone, anywhere, anytime.

He has extended it to cartridge guns now.

[ClemBert]

Hey CaptainCrossman...how 'bout posting a couple of pics of that turned cylinder. I'd like to see what it looks like after removing some of the metal.

[ilbob]

could it be that BP revolvers don't need fancy heat treatment being as the pressures are as low as they are?

[Indian Outlaw]

I'm sure that's what the Italians are thinking -- and it saves them money. But he's now talking about cartridge guns. I have noticed that Uberti's cartridge cylinders are not as hard as, say, Ruger's. But they are a bit harder than the cap & ball cylinders (they would have to be, to withstand smokeless pressures over the life of the gun) and last through thousands of rounds of cowboy action shooting.

[Raider2000]

For those of you that have any of those defective Italian C&B & cartridge revolvers, send them to me for proper disposal, I have the facility necessary that will dispose of all of those pieces of junk once & for all.

[Indian Outlaw]

CaptainCrossman will be sending you a large box.

[Fingers McGee]

Quote Raider 2000:

For those of you that have any of those defective Italian C&B & cartridge revolvers, send them to me for proper disposal, I have the facility necessary that will dispose of all of those pieces of junk once & for all.

I'll take them as well.

Whisper Mode on:
Is it just me, or does it sound like the good Cpt works for Ruger/USFA/S&W/Colt???
Whisper Mode Off.

[mykeal]

I'm heartbroken. My 40 plus blackpowder gun collection, accumulated over 30 years and exercised regularly during those 30 years, is junk. How can it be that I'm so lucky not to have been maimed or killed by those soft, mushy, worthless guns? You'd think that after tens of thousands of rounds at least one would have exploded in my face (especially since several are CVA's), but no, here I am with no excuse for reconstructive surgery. Whatever shall I do?

[arcticap]

It's probably not all black and white, but I do appeciate the info. even if it's opinionated.
It's good that we can be made more aware that there's different choices available in the market place and that some of them may really be better than others.

[hillbille]

would also guess he must be a real good friend to do any machine work on a firearm/part in his shop. I can't get anyone around here to do any side business.

[B.L.E.]

Does steel really need to be hardened to withstand the pressures of target smokeless loads? Actually there is a pressure overlap between mild smokeless loads and hot black powder loads. Lyman modified cap and ball revolvers so that chamber pressures could be measured and recorded 10,000+ LUP with maximum black powder charges in a .36 using a conical bullet. That's aproaching and exceeding taget load smokeless pressures.

That soft steel is probably "strong enough" for the intended loads. Soft steel also tends to stretch or bend when it is overstressed instead of just snapping into like hardened tempered steels tend to do.

[DrLaw]

I'm not saying a thing! :barf:



The Doc is out now.

[tiberius10721]

I don't know enough about this subject to comment on the quality of the steel used to build my uberti 1858 remington replica ,but I all i do know is it is my favorite gun to shoot and most accurate of my pistol collection.35 grains of fff g powder is what I use and I dont ever plan on using conversion cylinder so Im not really worried about my gun blowing up!I bought mine during christmas for 260 at midway so I definatley think it was worth it.

[Raider2000]

Well if were talking about the steel in my Italian built Pietta NMA w/ the 5.5" barrel, it must be pretty tough because I surely don't baby it.

Some may remember that I bought it in 2007 & almost imediatly {sp} started tweaking it to become the conical launcher it is today.
Smoothed & Tuned the action.
Opened the nipple area to accept a snail capper.
Reamed the chambers from .4460 to .4510.
Opened up the loading window to accept the big .456 222gr. conical I shoot.
Modified the cylinder pin so that it can be completely removed from the frame.
Re-throated & Re-crowned the barrel.

I've probably put somewhere around 1000 shots through it since I reamed the chambers with most of em using this loading.
.456 222gr. Lee Conical lubed with 50/50 bees wax & crisco.
30gr. FFFG Goex.
#11 Remington caps.
718 fps.
254 ft. lbs.

So far it has survived everything I have put through it & all I have to do is keep her clean & lubed.

[long rider]

Hey cap, got to thinking that you no what you are
doing when you post a new thread, i think that you like
to get every one fired up, if you think that bp guns are
not worth spit so be it, but there are guys who like there
foreign made smoke poles like myself, you downing them
makes a bad rap for newbis, but i think you like the
reaction you get from the rest of the guys.

[FrontierGander]

had 4 1851 confederate navy .44s that i bought off cabelas. they sent me 3 replacements and they all went back. My very first pistol kept blowing the wedge pin out after each shot, hammer stripped out and then finally the pin that holds the cylinder shaft blew off.

first replacement - 6 shots and the hammer froze up and i could not unjam the thing.

second replacement the pistol would not cock at all

final replacement lasted 2 shots before it to froze up solid.

Its been 10 years now and i have not looked at ANY cap 'n ball revolvers since. American made or Italian made.

[long rider]

Maybe You Should Invest In A Pair Of Glasessssssss.

[Fingers McGee]

Quote FrontierGander

Its been 10 years now and i have not looked at ANY cap 'n ball revolvers since. American made or Italian made.

Thank you for refraining from purchasing C&B revolvers. It leaves more for those of us that appreciate them.

[FrontierGander]

oh no i actually loved the 6 shooter!! i've just been cautious ever since. I'd love to get another one some day but i'll do a lot of research next time.

Right now i could use a .54 or .58 cal single shot to keep my rifle company.

[arcticap]

I went to the gun shop last week and they got in about 1/2 dozen USFA Single Action Revolvers. They were all priced in the mid $700's and they had a beautiful finish. (pictures at the bottom of the page):

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/single...n-revolver.asp

Then I noticed that one of the SA's was just under $500. It was a USFA Rodeo. The matte black finsh didn't look too bad in the dealer's case. It also comes in nickel as the Rodeo II, and since it's a USFA the action should be worth it:

http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/rodeogun.asp

[gmatov]

Arcticap,

Careful. The Cap'n has warned you that all them nickle guns are colored brass.

I don't understand a thing that the Gander says.

"My very first pistol kept blowing the wedge pin out after each shot."

"hammer stripped out and then finally the pin that holds the cylinder shaft blew off."

I don't know what a "wedge pin" is that blew out. I don't know how a hammer "strips". They rotate on a round shaft. I don't know how a pin that I don't know where it is that holds the cylinder shaft can blow off.

Because a steel is "free machining" does not mean that it is soft. Some steels turn nicely, but high tensile, some others are a bitch to cut, though they may be considered "scrap steel".

Then, too, the grind of the tool or the carbide insert you use will take an intermittent cut without telling you you got problems.

You could, of course go to Maraging Steel. Recent price is 178 bucks for 6 inch length of 1.75 D. 30 bucks per lineal inch, 1.75 D.

Overkill I THINK, for BP, unless you think that only them with a few spare bucks, you, maybe, should BE allowed to shoot even BP.

As to the "machinist, I were one, many years ago. I made MANY interrupted cuts, motor rotor spiders, 6 or 8 arm, and spun them at about 180 RPMs and got the finish they asked for, 12 to 36 inch diameter. Kids today in machine shops have no idea how to run machines, for the most part.

Computer tells them what they can or cannot do.

Machinists are cutting Inconel and solid nickle with no problem. A guy tells you this is really mushy steel and you come tell us that import cylinders are melted down tincans.

Steel can be very tough though relatively soft. HARD steel has a habit of fracturing upon impact, and powder bursting in a cavity can be considered an impact.

As some of the others, I wonder why you post here. You evidently HATE BP guns, your latest is an Open Top, a top strapless Colt, and we know you don't like unstrapped revolvers.

I would like to see you take a Smith 29 cylinder to that same machinist and have him take a cut off it. I would wager you would hear him say "Man, this is some soft steel."

You don't make tough steel 60 Rockwell. That is hard steel. Brittle. Breaks. Tough steel is in the 45 neighborhood, strong and ductile. A good knife is about 52, 54 Rockwell.

You are trying to scare people and I don't know why. Whom do you represent? You can't be simply a free range *******.

Cheers,

George