45/70 Brass Question

Edward429451 · November 21, 2006, 08:36 PM

So I've been loading for my 1895G for about a year now and some of my brass is up to being 4 times fired (1T). No split cases yet, no loose/tight pockets, no bright rings around the base, cracking or anything.

I just haven't really been loading rifle cartridges or 45/70's that long and wonder what should I expect to see first? Is this 45/70 brass going to give off signs like a 44 mag case and just split down the side or at the mouth, or give me a bright ring with thinning at the top of the case head like a bottleneck cartridge....?

Rich636 · November 21, 2006, 09:24 PM

What kind of weight of bullet and how fast? I would think if you were loading 405grn bullets at 1200fps it would take more than 4 uses to stress the brass. I think the straight wall and low pressure loads should give it a much longer life than a bottlenecked high pressure round.

Edward429451 · November 21, 2006, 09:33 PM

Oh just midrange level 2 loads. Nothing more than 405's at 1650fps.

Rich636 · November 21, 2006, 09:43 PM

I've only reloaded my cases for my Guide Gun maybe 3 times so I'm no expert by any means, but I would venture to guess the brass would show some stretch marks or split at the mouth before you'd rupture a case head or something.

Maybe you can take the older cases and dedicate them to low end or 300 grn loads to go easy on them.

Edit: 405 @1650...you're a brave man...405@ 1200 fps in mine has my shoulder telling me to switch guns after 10-15 rounds

Ken O · November 21, 2006, 09:58 PM

Every time you reload you work harden the case. The neck gets the most working because you bell for the bullet and then crimp. When the neck spits, throw it out. You can get more reloads by occasionally annealing the case neck.

T. O'Heir · November 21, 2006, 11:28 PM

Case life depends entirely on the load. Hot loads reduce case life. When the case mouth cracks, pitch it and anneal the rest of them.

Edward429451 · November 21, 2006, 11:47 PM

So I should be expecting split case mouths before case head cracks, ok. Anyone ever had a case head seperation in a 45/70?

The book takes 405's up to 1800 so I'm about where I want to be velocitywise. We are talking lead here. The frustrating thing is that (so far) the hotter the load, the lower the ES & AVG DEV & higher the velocity, and more accurate they are. I want to go further but don't want to with the older brass.

I did take a 350 GC up to 1886 and backed that right off. I didn't think I was that far, but my .460's ran up faster than Lyman's 457's! Those are the loads that got my attention real quick, both on the shoulder and on the target.

Anneal em eh? Dang I just reprimed em all last night. How far for these? The whole top half of the case?

steveno · November 22, 2006, 04:33 AM

I have some nickel plated Federal 45-70 brass that has close to 10 loads on them without any sign of failure of any kind

James A. Mullins · November 22, 2006, 05:29 AM

I bought RP and Starline, a hundred each. Loaded 40 of each 10 times each.
no signs of any thing yet. Most of my loads are with miester .405 lead .458
size. One close friend has some RP with over 50 loadings. Both of us only size the case first 1/2 inch and barely flare the case. We git 1500 out of both of our falling and rolling blocks.
James

Edward429451 · November 23, 2006, 02:58 PM

Hey, thanks to all who responded. I do like T. O'Heir's most practical and succinct answer the best and plan to do just that. I'll finish working up my elk load in newer brass, and not go any further with this brass than I am now.

pumpkinheaver · November 24, 2006, 12:31 PM

I have been using the same 100 cases I bought with my guidegun. That was like 6 or 7 years ago. I shoot mostly modest loads but do turn up the heat for deer season.

klw · November 25, 2006, 12:15 AM

Got my 45-90 brass up to 35 reloads before I sold my rifle. Knew a fellow who claimed that he got over 65 reloads with his 45-70 brass.

My experience has been that bottlenecked rifle cases have a case life of roughly 15 reloads. By then about half have split lengthwise somewhere around the next.

Never have figured out how many times you can reload a straight walled rifle case. Certainly well over 15 times and maybe a LOT more than that.

**Mike Irwin** · November 25, 2006, 03:38 PM

"Nothing more than 405's at 1650fps."

Given the .45-70 is a straight-walled case and works at fairly low pressure, even with the really hot loads, your case life could be virtually infinite, especially if you anneal the case mouth every 5 to 10 rounds (if you use much of a crimp).

If you don't use a crimp, I wouldn't even worry about annealing.

November 21, 2006, 08:36 PM	#1
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	45/70 Brass Question So I've been loading for my 1895G for about a year now and some of my brass is up to being 4 times fired (1T). No split cases yet, no loose/tight pockets, no bright rings around the base, cracking or anything. I just haven't really been loading rifle cartridges or 45/70's that long and wonder what should I expect to see first? Is this 45/70 brass going to give off signs like a 44 mag case and just split down the side or at the mouth, or give me a bright ring with thinning at the top of the case head like a bottleneck cartridge....?

November 22, 2006, 05:29 AM	#9
James A. Mullins Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: Vancouver Washington Posts: 124	45-70 loads I bought RP and Starline, a hundred each. Loaded 40 of each 10 times each. no signs of any thing yet. Most of my loads are with miester .405 lead .458 size. One close friend has some RP with over 50 loadings. Both of us only size the case first 1/2 inch and barely flare the case. We git 1500 out of both of our falling and rolling blocks. James

November 24, 2006, 12:31 PM	#11
pumpkinheaver Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 294	I have been using the same 100 cases I bought with my guidegun. That was like 6 or 7 years ago. I shoot mostly modest loads but do turn up the heat for deer season. __________________ Just because your paranoid don't mean they aint out to get ya.

November 25, 2006, 12:15 AM	#12
klw Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2005 Posts: 118	number of reloads Got my 45-90 brass up to 35 reloads before I sold my rifle. Knew a fellow who claimed that he got over 65 reloads with his 45-70 brass. My experience has been that bottlenecked rifle cases have a case life of roughly 15 reloads. By then about half have split lengthwise somewhere around the next. Never have figured out how many times you can reload a straight walled rifle case. Certainly well over 15 times and maybe a LOT more than that.

November 25, 2006, 03:38 PM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"Nothing more than 405's at 1650fps." Given the .45-70 is a straight-walled case and works at fairly low pressure, even with the really hot loads, your case life could be virtually infinite, especially if you anneal the case mouth every 5 to 10 rounds (if you use much of a crimp). If you don't use a crimp, I wouldn't even worry about annealing. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 21, 2006, 09:24 PM	#2
Rich636 Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2005 Posts: 189	What kind of weight of bullet and how fast? I would think if you were loading 405grn bullets at 1200fps it would take more than 4 uses to stress the brass. I think the straight wall and low pressure loads should give it a much longer life than a bottlenecked high pressure round.

November 21, 2006, 09:33 PM	#3
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Oh just midrange level 2 loads. Nothing more than 405's at 1650fps.

November 21, 2006, 09:43 PM	#4
Rich636 Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2005 Posts: 189	I've only reloaded my cases for my Guide Gun maybe 3 times so I'm no expert by any means, but I would venture to guess the brass would show some stretch marks or split at the mouth before you'd rupture a case head or something. Maybe you can take the older cases and dedicate them to low end or 300 grn loads to go easy on them. Edit: 405 @1650...you're a brave man...405@ 1200 fps in mine has my shoulder telling me to switch guns after 10-15 rounds

November 21, 2006, 09:58 PM	#5
Ken O Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Half way between Grayling and Cadillac, Michigan Posts: 353	Every time you reload you work harden the case. The neck gets the most working because you bell for the bullet and then crimp. When the neck spits, throw it out. You can get more reloads by occasionally annealing the case neck.

November 21, 2006, 11:28 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Case life depends entirely on the load. Hot loads reduce case life. When the case mouth cracks, pitch it and anneal the rest of them.

November 21, 2006, 11:47 PM	#7
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	So I should be expecting split case mouths before case head cracks, ok. Anyone ever had a case head seperation in a 45/70? The book takes 405's up to 1800 so I'm about where I want to be velocitywise. We are talking lead here. The frustrating thing is that (so far) the hotter the load, the lower the ES & AVG DEV & higher the velocity, and more accurate they are. I want to go further but don't want to with the older brass. I did take a 350 GC up to 1886 and backed that right off. I didn't think I was that far, but my .460's ran up faster than Lyman's 457's! Those are the loads that got my attention real quick, both on the shoulder and on the target. Anneal em eh? Dang I just reprimed em all last night. How far for these? The whole top half of the case?

November 22, 2006, 04:33 AM	#8
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	I have some nickel plated Federal 45-70 brass that has close to 10 loads on them without any sign of failure of any kind

November 23, 2006, 02:58 PM	#10
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Hey, thanks to all who responded. I do like T. O'Heir's most practical and succinct answer the best and plan to do just that. I'll finish working up my elk load in newer brass, and not go any further with this brass than I am now.