Consolidating powder?

Wyoredman · May 18, 2015, 05:25 PM

What are the opinions about consolidating partial 1 lb canisters of H-110 and W-296 into one canister. They are different lots and dates.

I just inherited several partial cans from my grandfather. I know they are all H-110 and W-296 because he didn't have any other powder around, and he only had one handgun, a .44 Rem Mag.

Also, visually, the powders appear correct for the cans they are in.

What say you about mixing lots into one?

Colorado Redneck · May 18, 2015, 06:57 PM

There are those whom I respect greatly that will disagree, but here is what I think. I don't worry about mixing powders of different lots. Usually it is an ounce or two left in one container that I put into a newly opened container. There is probably a bit of difference in combustion characteristics, but I am not a precision shooter, so never know the difference. I seldom use max loads, so if there happens to be a bit more pressure with one lot of powder, it isn't a concern to me.

I would consolidate them and never look back. Probably would start with reduced loads and work up to see if there is any indicator of pressure issues.

Just my opinion.

higgite · May 18, 2015, 07:30 PM

I'm sure you know what you're doing much more than me, but I would have to wonder why he had several partial canisters of the same powder?

jepp2 · May 18, 2015, 07:51 PM

Given the situation that you haven't used any of the powders you acquired, combining them into a single lot seems reasonable. But I would always wonder about the product in the container being what it says it is. Start low to be conservative in case there is some issue you don't know about.

Dufus · May 18, 2015, 08:16 PM

Quote:

But I would always wonder about the product in the container being what it says it is. Start low to be conservative in case there is some issue you don't know about.

The problem with 296 & H110 is that it is dangerous to start too low. Follow published load data and do not go below the suggested start load.

Clark · May 18, 2015, 08:18 PM

The advantages:
Takes up less shelf space.
Solvents evaporate from powder slower.

Disadvantages:
When your brother in law asks to borrow some powder, you could give him an almost empty can if you do not mix them.

Nick_C_S · May 18, 2015, 09:54 PM

Granted, H-110/W296 is a slow and forgiving powder. So that would buy you some forgiveness for committing such a faux pas.

But I personally would still not do it. I never mix different lot numbers. I would just start using the most used can; then move to the next most used can; and so on.

I do find it curious why your grandfather would open and use several different cans of the same powder.

Lost Sheep · May 18, 2015, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

Granted, H-110/W296 is a slow and forgiving powder. So that would buy you some forgiveness for committing such a faux pas.

Nick_C_S, i have always trusted your posts and found them to be among the most reliable. informative and correct. But I personally would not have described H-110 or Win 296 as "forgiving."

Are we thinking about different parameters of character?

I have always thought of "forgiving" as allowing for a wide range of charge weights, uncontrolled variations in case volumes, etc. without courting dangerous pressure variation.

Are we looking at different aspects?

Lost Sheep.

reddog81 · May 18, 2015, 11:29 PM

Assuming they all appear the same I'd mix it. Worst case scernario is that the resulting mix is the average of the different lots. I'd rather have 1 mixed lot than a couple slightly different groups of powder.
However it is slightly weird to have 3 or more of the same cans of the same powder laying around...

higgite · May 18, 2015, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgite

I'm sure you know what you're doing much more than me, but I would have to wonder why he had several partial canisters of the same powder?

I would also wonder, if combining them is a good idea, why your grandfather didn't do it.

TimW77 · May 19, 2015, 12:01 AM

"Granted, H-110/W296 is a slow and forgiving powder."

Have to agree with Lost Sheep, H-110/W296 are both unflexible and unforgiving!

T.

cv73 · May 19, 2015, 01:04 AM

I would never mix two different powders.

hartcreek · May 19, 2015, 01:41 AM

Do not mix them. Use them up. Start with the bottle with the least powder and get loading and soon enough you will be down to one bottle. If you are loading .44 magnum they you will be using at least 22 grains at a time so it will go fast.

snuffy · May 19, 2015, 07:26 AM

Gramps probably didn't know the two powders were essentially the same. Now I said essentially. How old are those cans? While the St Marks powder plant probably made both powders,,-- when was that? Was there enough difference over perhaps 20 years that the resulting mix would be way off from current burn rates?

I have NO problem with mixing one batch/lot of the same stuff like H-110 with a new batch. I know it has not been contaminated, and approximately when I bought it. The same with W-296 from one lot to another. Even crossing brands from Hodgdon to Winchester. from my powder supplies that I bought.

For the money involved, I would NOT do it. I too hate to waste components, but at what risk?

Wyoredman · May 19, 2015, 08:44 AM

Why did grandpa not use them up or mix them himself? Good question! one that will not ever be answered. They are all in newer plastic containers. I suspect that once he got to the bottom of a canister, he wouldn't have enough powder for the next batch of reloads, so not knowing it was safe to combine batches, he just rat holed the leftovers. Just my guess.

Thanks for the opinions.

There is enough in 5 containers to make approximately 1/2#. So I think I will combine them. Thanks again.

jmr40 · May 19, 2015, 08:50 AM

There is no reason not to mix the same powders from different lots. Most 1 lb containers are only a little over 1/2 full by volume. Once I get a container about 3/4 empty I go ahead and pour it into the next container.

Nick_C_S · May 20, 2015, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Are we looking at different aspects?

I think maybe so.

I would not consider H-110/W296 as versatile. It doesn't like to be downloaded and can run very inconsistently (maybe even dangerous?? I don't know) when under-loaded. So I did not mean "forgiving" in that aspect.

I was looking at it from the perspective of when it's loaded up real good and it's running right. If a loader was at that point, and wanted to continue increasing charge weights, it won't just turn around and bite. It will give a lot of warning in the form of flattened primers and difficult extraction (I'm thinking 357 & 44 Mag here) long before something catastrophic happens.

The following is my past experience and is IN NO WAY to be construed as load advice:

Back when I was 10 feet tall and bullet proof (decades ago), I use to load 357 Mags / 110gn JHP's with W296 to where the powder almost completely filled the case. It was almost to the point where I could have just scooped the case into a bowl of W296 and then loaded it. Magnum primers; heavy crimp. I still have the gun and functions fine; as well as all my fingers. I consider that "forgiving."

Road_Clam · May 21, 2015, 05:52 AM

Me personally would not mix dissimilar brands of powder based upon internet opinions of "Yea, they are the same powder just a different brand". I do however purposely mix lots of like powders. I have an large old 8# keg of Win 748 which I have had for years. I keep it almost full with about 15# of powder in it currently. I like to make small weekly purchases of reloading components so to try and minimize powder lot variances I take the new powder and mix it right in with the keg and do the shake-n-bake shimmy. This method I feel helps for a more consistent performance. Win 748 is known for some instability but I see pretty consistent velocities using this method of combining lots.

TimSr · May 21, 2015, 06:51 AM

You are probably okay mixing if they are all similar in age and history, but considering that you don't know the history of them, or why he had multiples, you might be better off testing them separately. Really I don't see the big deal in using them up individually, unless you are incredibly cramped for an extra square foot of storage space. If one container is not good, for whatever reason, and you mix them, they all become fertilizer.

Quote:

I personally would not have described H-110 or Win 296 as "forgiving."

I understood what he meant, and I agree. It is difficult, if not impossible to overload enough 110 to cause disaster, nor is being a couple grains off in measuring likely to have a tragic outcome. Try that with Bullseye!

Nick_C_S · May 21, 2015, 09:45 AM

Quote:

. . . nor is being a couple grains off in measuring likely to have a tragic outcome. Try that with Bullseye!

Yes TimSr. That's what I meant. That was a good way of stating it.

A loader could get away with being kind of wreckless with their measuring of W296, and probably get away with it. In the context of this string and the OP's original question: That translates to it probably not being an issue if the powders were consolidated. But I wouldn't do it, personally.

I appreciate my opinions being respected - I try to speak honestly, respectfully, and from experience.

May 18, 2015, 05:25 PM	#1
Wyoredman Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,352	Consolidating powder? What are the opinions about consolidating partial 1 lb canisters of H-110 and W-296 into one canister. They are different lots and dates. I just inherited several partial cans from my grandfather. I know they are all H-110 and W-296 because he didn't have any other powder around, and he only had one handgun, a .44 Rem Mag. Also, visually, the powders appear correct for the cans they are in. What say you about mixing lots into one? __________________ Go Pokes! Go Rams!

May 18, 2015, 06:57 PM	#2
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	My opinion There are those whom I respect greatly that will disagree, but here is what I think. I don't worry about mixing powders of different lots. Usually it is an ounce or two left in one container that I put into a newly opened container. There is probably a bit of difference in combustion characteristics, but I am not a precision shooter, so never know the difference. I seldom use max loads, so if there happens to be a bit more pressure with one lot of powder, it isn't a concern to me. I would consolidate them and never look back. Probably would start with reduced loads and work up to see if there is any indicator of pressure issues. Just my opinion.

May 18, 2015, 07:51 PM	#4
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	Given the situation that you haven't used any of the powders you acquired, combining them into a single lot seems reasonable. But I would always wonder about the product in the container being what it says it is. Start low to be conservative in case there is some issue you don't know about. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life member

May 18, 2015, 08:18 PM	#6
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	The advantages: Takes up less shelf space. Solvents evaporate from powder slower. Disadvantages: When your brother in law asks to borrow some powder, you could give him an almost empty can if you do not mix them. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

May 18, 2015, 09:54 PM	#7
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Granted, H-110/W296 is a slow and forgiving powder. So that would buy you some forgiveness for committing such a faux pas. But I personally would still not do it. I never mix different lot numbers. I would just start using the most used can; then move to the next most used can; and so on. I do find it curious why your grandfather would open and use several different cans of the same powder. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

May 18, 2015, 07:30 PM	#3
higgite Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2010 Posts: 1,025	I'm sure you know what you're doing much more than me, but I would have to wonder why he had several partial canisters of the same powder?

May 18, 2015, 11:29 PM	#9
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Assuming they all appear the same I'd mix it. Worst case scernario is that the resulting mix is the average of the different lots. I'd rather have 1 mixed lot than a couple slightly different groups of powder. However it is slightly weird to have 3 or more of the same cans of the same powder laying around...

May 19, 2015, 12:01 AM	#11
TimW77 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2008 Posts: 485	"Granted, H-110/W296 is a slow and forgiving powder." Have to agree with Lost Sheep, H-110/W296 are both unflexible and unforgiving! T.

May 19, 2015, 01:04 AM	#12
cv73 Junior member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Posts: 42	I would never mix two different powders.

May 19, 2015, 01:41 AM	#13
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	Do not mix them. Use them up. Start with the bottle with the least powder and get loading and soon enough you will be down to one bottle. If you are loading .44 magnum they you will be using at least 22 grains at a time so it will go fast.

May 19, 2015, 07:26 AM	#14
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Gramps probably didn't know the two powders were essentially the same. Now I said essentially. How old are those cans? While the St Marks powder plant probably made both powders,,-- when was that? Was there enough difference over perhaps 20 years that the resulting mix would be way off from current burn rates? I have NO problem with mixing one batch/lot of the same stuff like H-110 with a new batch. I know it has not been contaminated, and approximately when I bought it. The same with W-296 from one lot to another. Even crossing brands from Hodgdon to Winchester. from my powder supplies that I bought. For the money involved, I would NOT do it. I too hate to waste components, but at what risk? __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

May 19, 2015, 08:44 AM	#15
Wyoredman Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,352	Why did grandpa not use them up or mix them himself? Good question! one that will not ever be answered. They are all in newer plastic containers. I suspect that once he got to the bottom of a canister, he wouldn't have enough powder for the next batch of reloads, so not knowing it was safe to combine batches, he just rat holed the leftovers. Just my guess. Thanks for the opinions. There is enough in 5 containers to make approximately 1/2#. So I think I will combine them. Thanks again. __________________ Go Pokes! Go Rams!

May 19, 2015, 08:50 AM	#16
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	There is no reason not to mix the same powders from different lots. Most 1 lb containers are only a little over 1/2 full by volume. Once I get a container about 3/4 empty I go ahead and pour it into the next container.

May 21, 2015, 05:52 AM	#18
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	Me personally would not mix dissimilar brands of powder based upon internet opinions of "Yea, they are the same powder just a different brand". I do however purposely mix lots of like powders. I have an large old 8# keg of Win 748 which I have had for years. I keep it almost full with about 15# of powder in it currently. I like to make small weekly purchases of reloading components so to try and minimize powder lot variances I take the new powder and mix it right in with the keg and do the shake-n-bake shimmy. This method I feel helps for a more consistent performance. Win 748 is known for some instability but I see pretty consistent velocities using this method of combining lots. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"