stopping power COM: only shotguns (slug and/or buckshoot) drop wild boar instantly

[Para Bellum]

A friend of mine is an avid hunter and shared his experience with me recently.

Some days ago he and some hunting-pals were hunting for wild boar and shot some 30 of them. None of them had a rifle so they used their shotguns with mostly slugs ("brenneke") and twice also buckshot. Each boar dropped on the spot, all where hit in the body, none in the head.

From this and other experiences he told that no rifle-hit to the body, no matter whether .308, .300WinMag or .223 ever dropped any game he shot or has seen being shot. They all ran away, some far, some not so far but no animal was stopped. Not even with heart- or lung hits.

That's why he aims for the neck or head with rifles and that always dropped all game he hit there with rifles too. For defense he'd only rely on shotguns.

He doesn't even think of using any handgun whatsoever against any game.

What are your thought's / experiences?

[CraigJS]

I saw a television show years ago about Big Game hunters in Africa.. Their prefered weapon to use when going after wounded Lions or Tigers in brush was the shotgun with slugs!! Good enough for me!

[Double Naught Spy]

Some days ago he and some hunting-pals were hunting for wild boar and shot some 30 of them. None of them had a rifle so they used their shotguns with mostly slugs ("brenneke") and twice also buckshot. Each boar dropped on the spot, all where hit in the body, none in the head.

From this and other experiences he told that no rifle-hit to the body, no matter whether .308, .300WinMag or .223 ever dropped any game he shot or has seen being shot. They all ran away, some far, some not so far but no animal was stopped. Not even with heart- or lung hits.

Sorry, but sounds like garbage. What was his explanation for why shotguns produce the instant drops where as no other rifles will? How is it those calibers can drop deer in their tracks but not hogs? How come other hunters report instant drops with those calibers on hogs?

If you check this forum and others, you will find several accounts of non-cranial shots producing instant hog drops.

How is it your buddy and friends got 30 instant drops with shooting shotguns and no animals running off but other hunters don't seem to have the same luck?

What sounds like garbage is the definitiveness of the reports and an all or none absolutist account. All 30 pigs were dropped instantly with a shotgun via a body shot but no rifles have ever done that in his experience.

And if you check here and on other forums, you will find accounts of shotgun NOT producing instant drops with non-cranial shots.

[FirstFreedom]

Yep, it's BS. Your friends are absolutely correct that hitting game in COM with a rifle round, even with heart/lung shots, does NOT always, and in fact, not usually, result in instant drops. There's enough oxygen left in the blood for them to run at least 30-50 yds before dropping, even with a heart or double lung shot, when combined with adrenaline. True of deer, hogs, younameit. But the fact is that using shotguns slugs is not very different at all in terms of the physiology involved. Sure, it's quite possible that you get a few more instantaneous drops with a shotgun because of the wide diameter of the bullet passing through the vitals, and the resulting massive shock to the system. But they're not ALL going to drop instantly. For 30 in a row to drop instantly is about a few million to 1 chance. So unless your friends win the lotto each month, they are lying, IMO. Dropping instantly is an as-yet-not-fully-understood phenomenon. It can happen with a .44 magnum on a cape buff, and not happen with a .300 rem ultra mag on a little doe. Some think it has to do with whether the heart beat of the animal coincides perfectly with the hit, but I don't buy this either. I think it has to do with the general level of alertness/wariness of the animal, which can result in adrenaline being released faster and in more quantity than if the animal is non-chalantly going about its life when shot. Still, if the slugs drop them more often than a rifle, then by all means, that's a good reason to use it. It just ain't 100%. No way, IMO. Unless MAYBE they were all little baby piglets.

[mete]

I agree - tall tales !! As for going after something like a leopard - buckshot may not penetrate heavy muscles even at close range, so slugs are bettter .However a rifle with it's higher velocity will have great effects on the nervous system so take a rifle !!

[Death from Afar]

I totally agree. Buck shot is tricky stuff and if you shoot within the magic range range whereby the pattern still holds together its great. Once you fire outside that range, and the shot "lets go" and the patterns open right out, its no good. Until I knew this, I happilly used buckhot on a wallabies and goats and lost a few animals- now I know why...

[Twycross]

He may well have the right idea, but the "never" and "always" stuff is usually BS, as I think this is.

[Charles S]

None of them had a rifle so they used their shotguns with mostly slugs ("brenneke") and twice also buckshot.

I have some experience with hunting hogs and I will state with absolute certainty that buckshot will not reliably stop a large hog. I know the last hog I shot I shot twice with 3 inch 00 buckshot from a Remington 1187. Both shots were excellent placement. One shot in the neck one shot in the head at 9 yards. They did not stop the animal. The animal gave very little indication he had been shot. The final shot was in the head with a 357 Magnum 145 Winchester Silver tip. The results were instantaneous, a stop. The hog I shot was not a particularly large hog.

My experiences certainly do not correlate with theirs.

Any large caliber rifle will produce rapid incapacitation in a hog. I have had excellent results with a 270, 30-06, 300 WSM and 300 Win Mag.






Charles

[Fremmer]

"told that no rifle-hit to the body, no matter whether .308, .300WinMag or .223 ever dropped any game he shot or has seen being shot. They all ran away, some far, some not so far but no animal was stopped. Not even with heart- or lung hits"

I've never hunted hog. But if he is asserting that a deer which is shot with a good lung-shot while using a .308 or a .30-06 will never drop and will always run away, I would say...

HOGWASH!

Sorry folks, I couldn't resist.

[Foxman]

CraigJS
"I saw a television show years ago about Big Game hunters in Africa.. Their prefered weapon to use when going after wounded Lions or Tigers in brush was the shotgun with slugs!!" Good enough for me!
Television show was BS too, they generally use large shot not slugs! because they are likely to be charged by the wounded cat at short range SSG is one favorit. Also tigers live in India/ Asia not Africa.
A good book from Amazon that will tell you the real story is called " The White Hunters" by Brian Herne who is still to this day a PH in Africa, you will find it a fascinating read.

[Boarhunter]

Para Bellum,

As one who has killed a fair number of very large Russian hogs and observed others kill many, many more, I am calling bs on the conclusion your buddies have apparently reached regarding the ineffectiveness of non-slug projectiles on hogs.

I will be the first to concede that hogs are built like tanks, extremely tough to put down, and generally foul of temperament when injured (frankly, all of those qualities are what endear hog-hunting to me, personally). But they are not invincible, nor is a slug the only projectile that puts them down convincingly. A .308 will do it, as will any other similarly-powerful rifle cartridge. As will the more powerful handgun cartridges. The key is deep penetration, coupled with accurate shot placement. That combination will do the trick as well as a shotgun slug. I know. I have done it often and seen others do it lots of times.

Even with a shotgun slug (or a powerful rifle cartridge or a magnum handgun cartridge), there is no guarantee the hog will drop in its tracks, even with deep penetration and accurate shot placement. It can happen; but then again, it may not happen. Hunting hogs is not mathematics. There are no guarantees of results, but a powerful rifle cartridge or a magnum handgun cartridge is capable of achieving results (i.e., one-shot kill) similar to that of a slug.

I think your buddies are embellishing a bit.

Boarhunter

[Art Eatman]

I've hit a fair number of deer with heart shots. .243, .270, and .30-'06. Many of them instantly dropped and then got up and ran some 25 to 50 yards before flopping over dead. Some just dropped and stayed there.

I often wonder if some of these "heart shot" stories were indeed hits to the heart, or just sorta close by it.

Separately, sorta, I have a real strong opinion that any bullet that disrupts the spinal cord is a one-time event.

Art

[Pointer]

I saw a television show years ago about Big Game hunters in Africa.. Their prefered weapon to use when going after wounded Lions or Tigers in brush was the shotgun with slugs!! Good enough for me!

+1 And bears too!

no rifle-hit to the body

OBVIOUSLY a .458 or .460 is about the same size as a 12ga. slug!!!

NOT TO MENTION the powerful .378, .375, .338/.340, all big bores.

Either they've been miss-quoted, or they're full of crap...

With the right bullet-type, 165 grains or bigger... they'll drop JUST as easily with a rifle.

[Death from Afar]

One of my mates is a very good pig hunter, and uses either a .222 (!!) or a .357 Lever gun. He kills a LOT of pigs- maybe 200 a year. Its marksmanship that matters more than fire power.

[Para Bellum]

Garbage....

BS....

that's why I asked you guys what you'd think.... I'd even rely on a .223 + P ("P" stands for Placement in my language )

[Mannlicher]

goofy, just plain goofy

[Bigoledude]

Down here in SE Louisiana we mostly bait for hogs. This method usually brings 'em in pretty close (usually within 25 yards). We've mostly used "0" and "00" buckshot applied to the neck region.

Between my 4 sons and the guys we hunt with, we've probably taken over a hundred hogs in the last 15 years or so. Not one buckshot neck-shot hog ever ran off.

After reading all these BS accusations aimed at Para Bellum's podnah I called the guys to collect some info. The young men could not remember any hogs running off after being shot in the neck with buckshot.

The only time we tried slugs was through a smoothbore shotgun using slugs designed for a rifled barrel. The results were predictable. The young fella said he couldn't even determine where they were impacting.

Now, I personally have shot some hogs out to a hundred yards with my 30-06 using Sierra's 165 grain HP Gameking. Most dropped, some ran a short way and then piled up. Same story with the 7 Mag.

I just don't see where it's hard to believe that an animal would drop instantly when plastered in the shoulder/neck/head area with 8 or 9 .33 caliber projectiles doing about 1300 to 1400 fps. And inside 25 yards!

I mean some spin around on the ground for a minute maybe. But, none of us could remember any hogs taking even a couple of steps after being buckshot.

[H&H,hunter]

I have killed lots of hogs with rifles and shotguns with both slugs and buckshot.

Buckshot is the most unreliable killer of hogs of anything I've ever used.

Here's my take on this.

I've seen prefectley hit hogs drop to shot with rifles of just about ever caliber from a .223 to a .470NE.

I've seen prefectly hit hogs drop to the shot with slugs buckshot and pistol bullets.

I've seen perfectly hit hogs run for an unbelivably long time after being hit with any of the above mentioned items.

Last year my buddy Tim shot two hogs with his .458 Lott using 500gr soft nose hornandy bullets. He hit both of them perfectly in the sweet spot both of them ran for some distance on over 100 yards before giving it up.

I watched a guy completley B-slap a hog to the ground with a 45gr .223 round last week with a shoulder shot. (of course the hog did get up and run but the next 15 rounds were a bit rough on him. )

The moral of the story is sometimes they fall over sometimes they don't you simply can't make an always or never staement when it comes to hunting.

EXAMPLE,

This PAC (problem Animal Control) elephant went almost straight to the ground after receiving a 500 gr solid from a .470NE.




These two hog were shot with the same rifle and load as the elephant. The bigger one ran over 200 yards after taking a 500gr .475 bullet through both lungs. The smaller one did a major dirt nap on the spot.



Does this prove that hogs are tougher than elephants? Nope just that sometimes things go right down sometimes they don't.

[Pointer]

parabellum

.223 would do it, BUT use only the strongest bullet construction for safety reasons...

[youp]

IMO most experienced hunters have a story or two about a heart shot animal taking off for a hundred or so yards.... and the next one taken with the same load, same range piles right up. I don't think anyone can explain it, it just happens. From my experiences if a whitetail takes off hard and low after the shot, it is a heart or lung shot with no major bones hit. He will be waiting for you in a hundred yards or so. Might be a hundred or two more if the bullet did not mushroom properly.

[Charles S]

Down here in SE Louisiana we mostly bait for hogs. This method usually brings 'em in pretty close (usually within 25 yards). We've mostly used "0" and "00" buckshot applied to the neck region.

Between my 4 sons and the guys we hunt with, we've probably taken over a hundred hogs in the last 15 years or so. Not one buckshot neck-shot hog ever ran off.

After reading all these BS accusations aimed at Para Bellum's podnah I called the guys to collect some info. The young men could not remember any hogs running off after being shot in the neck with buckshot.

Bigoledude

You obviously have much more experience with buckshot than I do....At this point I have shot one boar with buckshot. My experience will probably stop there.

I just don't see where it's hard to believe that an animal would drop instantly when plastered in the shoulder/neck/head area with 8 or 9 .33 caliber projectiles doing about 1300 to 1400 fps. And inside 25 yards!

I do. I shot a boar....The one in the picture twice with buckshot at a range of 11 and 9 yards. I skinned and processed the animal. Both shots were good shots. The head shot did not penetrate the skull and the neck shot did not hit anything that would put the animal down on the spot. The 357 magnum put the animal down on the spot. I cannot speak to your experiences, only mine, and based on my limited experience I won't try buckshot again.

I have killed hogs with a 357 magnum, 44 magnum, 30-30, 270, 308, 30-06 300 WSM, and 300 Win Mag. I find that rifle rounds are entirely adequate for the task.

I killed 3 more hogs last Friday in the rain. All three were shot with a 300 Winchester magnum with the first to 80 and 120 pounds heart and lung, the last 250+ (Our scale only goes to 250 and he bottomed it out) in the head. The 250+ boar was easily twice as large as the hog in the picture of my previous post.

I am going hog hunting this weekend. I will let you all know how I do.

The moral of the story is sometimes they fall over sometimes they don't you simply can't make an always or never staement when it comes to hunting.

H&H hunter is correct.

Charles

[Ian Riordan]

I've had oo/sg's bounce off a hog and dropped them with a 357, who cares? hunt to live and carry a knife.

[bigben]

I've been sitting here reading this thread, I love to hog hunt and I do most of my hunting in thick cane breaks where 10 yrds is a long shot and you don't have a lot of time to place a shot, so I use 00 buck and have used it with great results... I've never had many run far if at all, but at the range I'm shooting I sometime put 2 loads of it on them before they can react.... If you guys want excitment try stalking hogs in thick cover... I have killed as many as 10 in a day in se OK

[Para Bellum]

Does this prove that hogs are tougher than elephants? Nope just that sometimes things go right down sometimes they don't.

Thanks folks, that was all god info!
Stay safe,
PB

[springmom]

Hubster put on the "Hunting University" show this afternoon, and I saw the president of CZ-USA drop an oryx where it stood; and saw the sales VP of TC do the same with a good size axis buck.

Sorry, but this is just not true.

Granted it won't always happen, and lots of deer will run for a little ways; but it DOES happen.

Springmom