Difference between Brass and stainless

[Scottish Highlander]

Hi everyone. I've recently noticed some of my shooting buddies using stainless steel rifle cases instead of brass ones. I was wondering what the differences were between the stainless and brass when your reloading. There must be a difference surely. Can you still put the stainless ones through your press for resizing ? And does the stainless have a longer shelf life in reloading ??

Jamie

[Fire_Moose]

Shiney silver? Its prolly nickle plated brass. Some say it's more brittle and wont last as long, I haven't loaded mine enough to varify.

A stainless case, afaik, would be a steel case some treated to be stainless.

[Scottish Highlander]

Yes the shiny silver ones. I just presumed they were stainless steel ? Maybe they aren't then...It was a question with regards to putting them through the press and if it was ok and also life span. Didn't want to make a booboo

Jamie

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

+1 for Fire_Moose. I agree. More than likely they were indeed Nickel-ed brass. Some manufactures offer their Premium ammunition with that option of nickel plating. Nickel plating apparently lubricates the cartridges functioning throughout its cycling in a receiver. I suspect if they were to split. I think it would happen on its case mouth similar to a pistol nickel-ed round will in time. As far as resizing. I find nickel plated brass actually easier to use as they don't appear to grow much from being fired over & over which helps eliminates their needing to be trimmed. Some say nickel plated brass will indeed gall a resizing dies bores surface over time. But again I haven't encountered that happening to my 25-06 resizing die. Well not yet.

S/S.

[45_auto]

As I understand it, cartridge cases were originally nickel-plated to prevent corrosion when they were carried in leather.

I have some nickel-plated 38 Special and 45 ACP cases that have been loaded so many times that the nickel is almost gone, they look like brass with a few dull silver streaks. Still using the same dies in the Dillon, haven't noticed any wear problems over the last 20 years.

[Unclenick]

The reloading of nickel-plated brass is catch as catch can. Some nickel is adhered well and wears away gradually as 45_auto describes. Other seems to lose adhesion and flake, especially at the trim site. Fine nickel flakes can embed in a sizing die and cause them to score every case that goes through afterward.

Nickel is a good deal harder than brass. It will wear your case trimmer cutter faster. But otherwise it does offer greater corrosion resistance and lubricity.

I am unaware of any stainless steel that would be malleable enough to be formed into cartridge cases in the usual manner of drawing with forming dies in a stamping machine. They could be lathe turned, but that wastes most of the steel. I just don't see it being practical.

[Scottish Highlander]

I think I'll just keep them away from my press. Dont want to replace my dies just because of a silly nickle plated case . Thanks to everyone for your answers

Jamie

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

This comment address's nickel'ed rifle brass only.

Sorry I may have lead you to believe their troublesome in my prior comment Jamie. They really aren't. Oh no by all means pick them up. Don't turn them down if someone wants to give you some. There's is absolutely nothing wrong in reloading them in your press so long as their lubed equally as well as your yellow brass is before hand. Believe me there are more advantages in using nickel plated brass than not.
If your dead set on not using nickel'ed brass you could always sell them here on TFLF. I know you wouldn't have a problem in doing that. Many would actually consider it a favor.

[wogpotter]

You dont say what size they are, but this might help.
Pistol cases without bottlenecks need far less trimmimng than bottleneck rifle cases do, so the chipping from the trimming may not be real important.

I trimmed some nickeled pistol brass & they did indeed get caught in the die, causing some light (mostly cosmetic) scratches till I discovered something I'll share. They weren't really "embedded" more like "stuck to" the die. I used a mop with some brass polish on a cleaning rod section chucked in a power drill & they were as good as (maybe a bit better than) new very easily.

By all means collect & use them, maybe just as plinking or "second string" ammo till you get comfortable with them. Do use a good lube though they can be a bit "stickier" when resizing.

[FrankenMauser]

If I have them on hand, I use nickel-plated cases for less-than-ideal hunting conditions. For example, I put a lot of .30-06 loads in nickel cases, because 'Antelope loads' might get sweaty (hot weather) and 'Elk loads' might get rained/snowed on.

But, it does have its drawbacks. Some have already been mentioned, but there are a few others that can factor in:
The nickel plating is rarely uniform around the case. The thicker plating on one side can lead to some strange case stretching and premature failures.
The nickel plating also does not respond well to neck expanding. So, lead bullets are not recommended. (The same goes for case forming - the nickel usually splits before the desired case shape is achieved.)


For handgun brass, I really don't care. I don't mix-and-match brass and nickel cases, but I do load them interchangeably. As soon as it shows signs of the nickel flaking or wearing substantially, I toss the case.

[TimSr]

Lots of factory .357's are loaded in nickel cases. I love them. They clean up easier, don't get all tarnished and nasty, and i've relaoded many of them over a dozen times. Doesn't necessarily mean you'll have the same results from rifle rounds, but I can say that thousands of cases through my Lyman carbide dies over 30 years have not caused any problems.

[Unclenick]

And my Lyman carbide .45 Auto sizing die picked up a nickel burr in the first few months I had it 30 years ago, and scored every case thereafter. It's catch as catch can. I'll have to pull that old die out and try polishing it per Wogpotter's comments and see what happens. But since I went to a Dillon Square Deal for .45 Auto in about 1990, I haven't used that die since then.

[snuffy]

This comes up once a month year 'round. The ONLY reason brass is coated with nickle is corrosion resistance. At first only 38 special for cops that wore a belt and holster with leather loops to hold their spare ammo. Salts left behind in the tanning process would quickly turn plain brass to a green glob!

Yes, it IS harder than plain brass. Just a little bit. I've seen claims on this forum, and others, that it's hard enough to scratch steel dies. Hogwash! Steel reloading dies are heat treated tool steel, VERY hard stuff.

Oh, and it's more of a coating process, called electroless nickle plating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroless_nickel_plating
It coats more uniformly, and gets into blind holes and all-the-way-to-the-bottom of every nook and cranny.

Back about 20 years ago, the process was actually nickle plating, with the nickle being applied in a layer, mostly on the outside of the case wall.

Bottom line for me is; I actually prefer nickle plated brass. I get it if it's available in new brass that I may order, for rifle as well as pistol. I treat it the same as plain brass during the handloading process.

[Unclenick]

Nickel can be a good bit harder than plain brass. It depends how pure it is and how it is processed and whether or not it's been annealed. It's made as soft as around Brinell 3000 kg scale number of 90 to as hard as over 700, the latter being equivalent to a Rockwell C scale value of about 63. I doubt plating on brass is anywhere near that hard, but I'm also quite confident it's not annealed, so it won't be all the way at the softest end of the scale, either.

A lot of Tungsten carbide is comprised of micro spheres sintered into a nickel matrix for better durability than the hard stuff by itself would have. I suspect what happens when a nickel accumulation starts scratching brass in a carbide sizing ring is just that pressure has cold welded a nickel fragment from the case to nickel in that matrix, so it sticks the way copper layers in a bore stick to previous layers. That creates a fairly hard speed bump for the incoming cases to squeeze past, hence the scoring. In steel it probably sticks more exactly the same way copper sticks to a barrel. This is why it makes sense to me that a polish not hard enough to lap the die significantly could steel remove the nickel speed bumps.

I should add in that my Dillon die has never picked up a nickel fragment the way my old Lyman die did. Neither have any of the Lee Speed Dies I have for load work-up at the range. So the grade of TC and how it's finished may matter. Especially if the TC powder is in a ceramic matrix rather than a nickel one.

[snuffy]

Snuffy : Apologies. I accidentally hit the edit button when I was trying to gather a quote, so I messed up your post. If I recall your comment correctly it was that the wiki description indicated varying hardness of electroless nickel was done by varying phosphorous content. You weren't sure what we were getting "…but we most likely are getting the low phosphorous coatings on nickle plated bras cases. Since they don't need protection from acid environments, or very hard non-porous finishes." (That's the part I preserved from your post).

[Scottish Highlander]

Thanks for all the reply

[Unclenick]

Snuffy : Apologies for accidentally mangling your post (see above and fix it as you see fit).

[QUOTE-snuffy]…but we most likely are getting the low phosphorous coatings on nickle plated bras cases. Since they don't need protection from acid environments, or very hard non-porous finishes.[/QUOTE]

Loops of tanned leather sounds like potential tannic acid exposure to me, so I wouldn't be too sure. A hard surface, assuming it's elastic enough, would also be more slick against steel. I think this is just a case of having to ask. The way the flakes break off when you get a flakey case, the flaking nickel is clearly more brittle than the brass underneath. So I'm thinking not so soft. On the other hand, the cases where the nickel wears off rather than flaking may well have a softer formulation. That may explain the behavior difference.