What Would You Do?

[anthony6727]

I recently picked up the 2011 Personal and Home Defense magazine ( which I highly recommend) and came upon an interesting article. Page 38 discusses the pros of cons of a.223 defense rife and opens with the following scenario:

"Sleeping soundly next to your spouse, you are awakened by terrified screams coming from the other end of your house. In an instant you realize the commotion is coming from your child's bedroom. With your heart pounding, you grab your carbine and move down the hallway as your spouse calls 911. An then, illuminated by your weapon mounted light, you see your worst nightmare in the form of a madman using your daughter for a shield and holding a pistol to her head.He screams at you to drop your gun as he tightens his grip on the throat of the most precious person in your life. What will you do?"

The article is great, however it never answers the question ( not that it was meant to) but it got me to thinking and I wanted to see what the experts would do. I'm sure many of you will say "depends"... well if that's the case, what does it depend on?

[micromontenegro]

From where I stand, the murder capital of the world, I have no doubt: start talking and asking questions, looking for the subject to move his gun a bit when he replies, and seizing that moment, put a bullet in his eye socket. If he does not move the gun in a reasonable time, then a bullet thru the eye socket anyway.

My reply would probably be very different if I lived in the civilized world. But here in Venezuela, that scenario would always end up in murder anyway, so I might as well go down swinging.

[jmortimer]

First, I would not march around with a light on and second I would shoot first as there is no reason the B/G is going to wait for me and I will get shot. Believe me, the would be more B/G exposed than my daughter or wife for that matter for the B/G to hide behind (Me I would make a good "shield"). Just had a hostage case here in L.A. yesterday where LEO heard an altercation behind closed bathroom door and the LEO kicked in the door grabbed the victim and killed the B/G. He did not wait to see what would happen to the victim.

[scorpion_tyr]

If you are honestly worried about this sort of threat there are several things you should do.

Invest in better home security. Locks, alarms, and a big dog.

Train. Obviously there are some weapons that would not be good in this situation, but there are many types (from pool sticks and knives, to carbines and handguns) that could be a huge advantage, or they could be a huge disadvantage. Just because one has the "best" tool for the job doesn't mean he or she can do the job. You should train for situations like these with what you have.

For instance, do you know for a fact that you can take down the BG with ONE shot in a manner that will make it impossible for him to pull his trigger and kill your child or you both?

First find out where to put the bullet, and then select the weapon and ammo, and then train for it.

Back to the beginning, better proactive and reactive home security measures could easily prevent this scenario.

[micromontenegro]

Is it all right to post videos of shootings here? If not, please tell me and I will take it down. But I think this is relevant to the topic, even if the shooting was done by a LEO instead of a private citizen. Local to me.
I will post a censored version, with the gory part pixelated, but with this we lose sight of the moment that the BG slightly relaxed finger away from the trigger, seen as an opportunity by the sharpshooter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10mgdgethA8

[cambeul41]

Here is a similar situation in Quanzhou (泉州):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbvJb...eature=feedlik

[Crazy88Fingers]

Well I definitely wouldn't drop my gun because that would be the end of it for both of us. If I'm a good enough shot with that rifle I'd put one right on his nose. I think I heard somewhere that a nose shot will send the bullet right back to the brain stem and drop him like a sack of potatoes. Makes sense to me.

[sirsloop]

Who the hell uses a .223 rifle for home defense? Good way to shoot holes through your house, your kids room, you neighbors house, etc.

As far as the story goes... I personally would shoot the dude. If he gets your daughter you can kick yourself in the ass for the rest of your life. If you don't shoot, the guy could get you, your daughter, your wife, the dog, etc, AND get away. Evil has already walked into your house, be sure it doesn't walk out.

[Skans]

Most likely I'm going to put down the gun and try to get the BG to remove the muzzle of his gun from my daughter's head. Buy as much time until the cops come, even if it means me getting shot at.

The bottom line is that I have absolutely NO, NONE, NADA, ZIP ZILCH experience shooting a bad guy in the head while he has my daughter in front of him with a gun to her head. I'd wonder if an extremely well trained pro would consider taking the shot when its his own daughter's life on the line? Well, I'm no pro, so I'm not taking the shot. If I'm not taking the shot, what the heck am I doing further angering the bad guy by continuing to point a gun at him?

[Brian Pfleuger]

Sleeping soundly next to your spouse, you are awakened by terrified screams coming from the other end of your house. In an instant you realize the commotion is coming from your child's bedroom. With your heart pounding, you grab your carbine and move down the hallway as your spouse calls 911. An then, illuminated by your weapon mounted light, you see your worst nightmare in the form of a madman using your daughter for a shield and holding a pistol to her head.He screams at you to drop your gun as he tightens his grip on the throat of the most precious person in your life. What will you do?"

Do you really have a choice?

If you can't hit Mr BG in the head at that distance with a rifle, you had better be doing some serious practicing.

(Yes, I know, the stress... all that...)

Dropping your gun is CERTAINLY not an option. Standing there doing nothing is CERTAINLY not an option.

What can you do? Squeeze the trigger.

[Manco]

What are my options? The only two that spring to mind are either taking a "hostage shot" or surrendering and becoming a hostage myself. With the former I'd have to bet on my ability to place an accurate head shot at fairly close range, and with the latter I'd have to bet that the intruder doesn't really want to hurt anybody unnecessarily. Well, I have a gun and I know how to use it, so I'd take the hostage shot, even if I were using a pistol. I practice head shots with pistols frequently at the range, and I'm confident that I can make the shot with minimal risk (especially with a carbine or rifle)--if I actually get a moment to aim carefully, then I won't miss.

Yeah, that sounds a bit crazy for somebody who is SO safety-conscious like me, but this is a dire scenario and I'd much rather depend on myself than the conscience and charity of a home invader--no question. If I didn't have the necessary skills, then I'd train even harder to develop them.

By the way, I wouldn't wait for the bad guy to make the first move--once it becomes clear that both sides are armed, then the one who shoots first has the clear advantage. I'd only delay if I didn't have a clear shot--once I have the shot, I'll take it immediately.

[markj]

Wife works nights so the sleeping thing is out, next my kids room is next to mine to get to it a person needs to come down a hallway past my room so scratch that as the dogs will have alerted me to anyone on my land within 1/4 mile so while they are attempting to gsain entrance I will have them under survellance and be recording their actions for future use in court. The motion sensored lites will have lit them up so the cameras get a good picture.


Darn it I have a plan and have added onto the place with SD in mind.....

Country boys will survive Hank Jr.

[Manco]

Of course, it's better to set up a layered defense so that such a scenario would be unlikely to the extreme. Mine, for instance, is based around the UA571-C Remote Automated Sentry System (no, not really ).

[sirsloop]

yeh... floodlights around the house, secure entry points, alarm system, dog, etc.

[MLeake]

... you might want to check boxotruth.com, or do some web searches for ballistics and home penetration.

5.56mm penetrates fewer layers of drywall than buckshot, most centerfire handgun rounds, and even birdshot at close ranges.

The 5.56mm round tends to fragment after penetrating drywall. Makes big, shallow holes, but is probably one of the safer choices for use in the house.

OTOH, it does a great job of penetrating thin layers of kevlar.

[BGutzman]

I dont think box o truth ever fought in Afganistan or Iraq nor do I believe did Box O truth ever do some sort of forced entry or convoy battle with it.

I know there are all kinds of people that disagee with what I am about to say and a few of them may even have some military experience but speaking from my experience.

The 5.56 mm is totally inadequate, 6.8 or almost anything out of the 22 caliber range would be better. In this particular situation I would say a Beretta CX 4 or similar carbine in 45 acp would be a better weapon as its dead on accurate and throwing a large round a short distance.

Hopefully you can put the flashlight and if you have one the laser in the BG's eyes.

I know there are a ton of people who disagree they have there own ideas and opinions and a few have some experiences. Pick your choice as you feel but the vaunted 5.56 isnt what a lot of people think it is...

[MLeake]

... what bearing does boxotruth fighting or not in Afghanistan or Iraq have on whether 5.56mm penetrates too much for indoor use?

Apples and oranges argument.

I have some shooter friends who like the 5.56 just fine, though I haven't personally used one in anger. (I have been issued them by Uncle Sam a time or two.) Whether it's adequate depends on the intended use.

[Skans]

I think the discussion is really more about whether you take a shot at someone holding a gun to another person's head and using that person as a human shield, particularly a family member. What caliber the weapons are, seems to me, not relevent.

[BGutzman]

It would be a lot more revelant if you shoot and he doesnt go down and your kid pays the price.

[cambeul41]

The Box O' Truth penetration tests that I read today are not what I remember:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

[BGutzman]

I personally saw a real world bg take a tap from a M16A2 in the noggin and guess what, it took 2 taps before he went down. Did the first one mess him up, yes... Did it stop him no.

Range was about 25 feet.

[.22lr]

A criminal is threatening my family member with deadly force. and then says "drop your gun"...

My brain will translate his words to something like this:

"Sir, you and your weapon are impeding my attempted rape and murder of your family member, I politely ask that you lower your weapon, or, perhaps give it to me. You could please do so, as soon as you can, I will resume my plans of raping and murdering your family member. Also, should i be taken by whimsy, I will murder you where you stand once your ability to resist has been surrendered."

I will not allow a family member to be taken.
-Of child victims of "stereotypical kidnappings, "40 percent are killed"
-Of abducted children who are ultimately murdered, 74 percent are dead within three hours of the abduction
-In 46 percent of non-family abductions, the child was sexually assaulted

I have told my wife that I would rather risk her life than trust the good intentions of a man holding a gun to her head.

My wife encourages me to practice (some levity is needed after the sobering numbers)

VR

Matt

[anthony6727]

Amen Matt, my thoughts indeed. By the way, since it was brought up before, does anyone have any solid medical information about where the best place is to land that shot to avoid a twitchy trigger finger( if this is possible?) Or is it just luck?

[.22lr]

originally posted by Anthony6727:

does anyone have any solid medical information about where the best place is to land that shot to avoid a twitchy trigger finger

Brain stem:

Though small, this is an extremely important part of the brain as the nerve connections of the motor and sensory systems from the main part of the brain to the rest of the body pass through the brain stem.

The brainstem is roughly behind the tip of the nose if the person is looking directly at you. Adjustments will have to be made for different angles.



That said, nothing is a sure bet.

Fire until the threat stops.

If it doesn't work, keep shooting.

If that doesn't work, just keep fighting.

There is nothing more precious than family.

VR

Matt

[booker_t]

I take the shot. Criminal has already committed to any number of crimes upon entering, including theft, rape, and murder.

Any other decision, and you give up your ability to impact the outcome.