Lyman 45-70 mould disappointment

stubbicatt · July 24, 2015, 07:31 AM

I'm returning a mould. I have a number of 1990s era Lyman moulds which cast nice round bullets of proper diameter. I recently acquired a 500 grain Lyman "government" round nose bullet mould which is advertised to cast at .457". I understand that alloy and temperature can affect as cast diameter, but this is .456" at the largest diameter, and as small as .452" at its smallest. That's .004" out of round!

To say I am disappointed is an understatement.

In fact, I recently upgraded my furnace to a RCBS Pro Melt, which won't hold temperature, purchased a mould that casts out of round bullets, and mould handles which are quite obviously not properly machined (such that one cannot install one of the mould halves without significant filing on the handles so that the screw hole lines up and there is a little "play"), all in one purchase.

I've noticed a steady diminution in quality of firearms over the years, with all but a couple I've purchased since 2000, requiring a trip back to the manufacturer for some egregious defect or other, but I'm beginning to think that this erosion of quality is reached epidemic proportions. And I have to say I'm getting frustrated.

I mean 3 out of 3 items purchased in the last few weeks are unacceptable. And I get to pay to send these back. Why won't manufacturers make these things right the first time?

I'm beginning to think maybe I am snake-bit!

snuffy · July 24, 2015, 08:19 AM

Stubbi, I'd say your experience with Lyman is pretty much par-for-the-course. But I'm surprised to hear the RCBS pro-melt failed as well.

The once great company called Lyman has deteriorated to the point of lousy quality and almost non-existent customer relations. They will probably claim you did something wrong with their mold, and your modification to the handles voids whatever warranty there is. Good luck getting something back that works.

I recently got a RCBS single cavity for my big Smith 500. A 375 SWC. It casts too small. Using 18 BHN lead, it should cast at least .502. Nope, .500! I tried to enlarge it by spinning an abrasive coated boolit in it, after 3 tries it finally cast at .501. Now, it's a moot point, as I am powder coating them, this increases the diameter, sizing brings it in at .5015. It shoots into one hole @ 25 yards with a stiff charge of longshot powder. Now the challenge is to find a sight that won't get destroyed by the recoil!

Beagle333 · July 24, 2015, 08:20 AM

Less craftsmanship and more mass production. Technology isn't always about making better stuff for us as much as it is about making stuff faster for the manufacturer.

stubbicatt · July 24, 2015, 09:24 AM

On a positive note Midway USA has agreed to receive the mould and handles in exchange for other products. They do have good customer service.

I've been buying from them since the late 1980s. They've been good to me.

I ordered the Hoch nose pour 510 grain government .459" bullet mould and handles. Hope it works out.

stubbicatt · July 29, 2015, 02:39 PM

Well, Midway sent me a nose pour Hoch grease groove mould and handles. There is a bit of a learning curve with this design, but once I got the hang of it, it casted perfect bullets at .459 to .460"

Loaded some up and shot them today, using AA5744, starting load. I must say, this is a great and economical gun to shoot. I loaded 25 cartridges, but after about 12, my shoulder was saying "enough." I finished all 25, brought the rifle home and cleaned it, and got some silver flakes out of it, but nothing stuck to the bore anywhere. I can see where one could drive 4 hours round trip to the range, and shoot only 10 shots, and feel like he had a good day. At 10 cartridges I reckon a fella can have all he can stand for less than $3!

Did I mention "flinch?" LOL.

I should have brought cross sticks or some sort of rest to zero the old dear. I am not satisfied with the sight settings just yet. I'll figure it out eventually. I did experience some cases sticking in the chamber, though I am not sure why. They insert and extract effortlessly, but after firing they stick. Upon actuating the lever they extracted that far only, and had to be pried the rest of the way out with the rim of another case. I do not know what is causing the sticking, but I gave it a good cleaning, and brushed the chamber well. I hope I resolved that issue.

As an aside, I am a fan of Hickok45 videos. There is at least one where he shoots a 1885 replica with black powder, and refers to his 500 grain cartridges as "torpedoes." Today as I inserted those big old brass cartridges with over an ounce of lead each one into the chamber, it did sort of seem like pushing torpedoes into the launch tube.

Love the rifle, gotta get used to the recoil however.

Next comes black powder cartridges. I intend to purchase a compression plug and perhaps shooting sticks and an expander from Buffalo Arms. I bought a pound of 1 ½ F Old Eynesford powder. Once the remaining tools come in, I'll see how I do. I figure I'd start with about .1 inch compression, and a fibre wad. I did not notice a grease star on the muzzle today, but I was shooting smokeless. For grins, I may also use a parchment over powder wad, a grease cookie, and a fiber wad under the bullet.

Anybody know whether a grease star on the muzzle is customary with smokeless?

Beagle333 · July 29, 2015, 02:55 PM

Mine has a lube star. I have read where many said that it was a good thing and that it meant it had enough grease to lube 'er all the way down the barrel. As long as it is symmetrical too, it shows that your crown is nice and square to the line of travel.

Mike / Tx · July 31, 2015, 04:29 AM

The only rifle I have run any cast through to date is my little shorty Ruger in .308. We loaded and shot some in small batches of 3 rounds, had 5 different loads and bullets. After each of the rounds however I shoved a white business card into the magazine area and used it as a reflector for sunlight to check for leading. I noted that the star was present on the muzzle after each 3 shot volley, before I ran a patch wrapped brush through the barrel. I like you got a little bit of slivers on a piece of paper when the brush came through but nothing I couldn't live with. The bore was bright and shiny after only one pass.

July 24, 2015, 07:31 AM	#1
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Lyman 45-70 mould disappointment I'm returning a mould. I have a number of 1990s era Lyman moulds which cast nice round bullets of proper diameter. I recently acquired a 500 grain Lyman "government" round nose bullet mould which is advertised to cast at .457". I understand that alloy and temperature can affect as cast diameter, but this is .456" at the largest diameter, and as small as .452" at its smallest. That's .004" out of round! To say I am disappointed is an understatement. In fact, I recently upgraded my furnace to a RCBS Pro Melt, which won't hold temperature, purchased a mould that casts out of round bullets, and mould handles which are quite obviously not properly machined (such that one cannot install one of the mould halves without significant filing on the handles so that the screw hole lines up and there is a little "play"), all in one purchase. I've noticed a steady diminution in quality of firearms over the years, with all but a couple I've purchased since 2000, requiring a trip back to the manufacturer for some egregious defect or other, but I'm beginning to think that this erosion of quality is reached epidemic proportions. And I have to say I'm getting frustrated. I mean 3 out of 3 items purchased in the last few weeks are unacceptable. And I get to pay to send these back. Why won't manufacturers make these things right the first time? I'm beginning to think maybe I am snake-bit!

July 24, 2015, 08:19 AM	#2
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Stubbi, I'd say your experience with Lyman is pretty much par-for-the-course. But I'm surprised to hear the RCBS pro-melt failed as well. The once great company called Lyman has deteriorated to the point of lousy quality and almost non-existent customer relations. They will probably claim you did something wrong with their mold, and your modification to the handles voids whatever warranty there is. Good luck getting something back that works. I recently got a RCBS single cavity for my big Smith 500. A 375 SWC. It casts too small. Using 18 BHN lead, it should cast at least .502. Nope, .500! I tried to enlarge it by spinning an abrasive coated boolit in it, after 3 tries it finally cast at .501. Now, it's a moot point, as I am powder coating them, this increases the diameter, sizing brings it in at .5015. It shoots into one hole @ 25 yards with a stiff charge of longshot powder. Now the challenge is to find a sight that won't get destroyed by the recoil! __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

July 24, 2015, 08:20 AM	#3
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Less craftsmanship and more mass production. Technology isn't always about making better stuff for us as much as it is about making stuff faster for the manufacturer. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

July 24, 2015, 09:24 AM	#4
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	On a positive note Midway USA has agreed to receive the mould and handles in exchange for other products. They do have good customer service. I've been buying from them since the late 1980s. They've been good to me. I ordered the Hoch nose pour 510 grain government .459" bullet mould and handles. Hope it works out. Last edited by stubbicatt; July 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM.

July 29, 2015, 02:39 PM	#5
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Hoch nose pour! Yay! Well, Midway sent me a nose pour Hoch grease groove mould and handles. There is a bit of a learning curve with this design, but once I got the hang of it, it casted perfect bullets at .459 to .460" Loaded some up and shot them today, using AA5744, starting load. I must say, this is a great and economical gun to shoot. I loaded 25 cartridges, but after about 12, my shoulder was saying "enough." I finished all 25, brought the rifle home and cleaned it, and got some silver flakes out of it, but nothing stuck to the bore anywhere. I can see where one could drive 4 hours round trip to the range, and shoot only 10 shots, and feel like he had a good day. At 10 cartridges I reckon a fella can have all he can stand for less than $3! Did I mention "flinch?" LOL. I should have brought cross sticks or some sort of rest to zero the old dear. I am not satisfied with the sight settings just yet. I'll figure it out eventually. I did experience some cases sticking in the chamber, though I am not sure why. They insert and extract effortlessly, but after firing they stick. Upon actuating the lever they extracted that far only, and had to be pried the rest of the way out with the rim of another case. I do not know what is causing the sticking, but I gave it a good cleaning, and brushed the chamber well. I hope I resolved that issue. As an aside, I am a fan of Hickok45 videos. There is at least one where he shoots a 1885 replica with black powder, and refers to his 500 grain cartridges as "torpedoes." Today as I inserted those big old brass cartridges with over an ounce of lead each one into the chamber, it did sort of seem like pushing torpedoes into the launch tube. Love the rifle, gotta get used to the recoil however. Next comes black powder cartridges. I intend to purchase a compression plug and perhaps shooting sticks and an expander from Buffalo Arms. I bought a pound of 1 ½ F Old Eynesford powder. Once the remaining tools come in, I'll see how I do. I figure I'd start with about .1 inch compression, and a fibre wad. I did not notice a grease star on the muzzle today, but I was shooting smokeless. For grins, I may also use a parchment over powder wad, a grease cookie, and a fiber wad under the bullet. Anybody know whether a grease star on the muzzle is customary with smokeless? Last edited by stubbicatt; July 29, 2015 at 02:48 PM.

July 29, 2015, 02:55 PM	#6
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Mine has a lube star. I have read where many said that it was a good thing and that it meant it had enough grease to lube 'er all the way down the barrel. As long as it is symmetrical too, it shows that your crown is nice and square to the line of travel. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

July 31, 2015, 04:29 AM	#7
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	The only rifle I have run any cast through to date is my little shorty Ruger in .308. We loaded and shot some in small batches of 3 rounds, had 5 different loads and bullets. After each of the rounds however I shoved a white business card into the magazine area and used it as a reflector for sunlight to check for leading. I noted that the star was present on the muzzle after each 3 shot volley, before I ran a patch wrapped brush through the barrel. I like you got a little bit of slivers on a piece of paper when the brush came through but nothing I couldn't live with. The bore was bright and shiny after only one pass. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX