Hangfires/bullet stays in barrel

twiceshy · December 10, 2001, 08:22 PM

This has not happened to me and untill yesterday i have onle heard of it happening. The fellow in the bay next to me at the range was shooting a revolver with his own reloads. three times i heard a very muffeled low pop, and each time he would unload the gun and drive the bullet out with a hammer and a rod. When i asked what was wrong he told me that he may have not put enough powder in the case or the powder was bad. (OK ?) He was shooting slow and didn't fire a second round in to a pluged barrel, thank goodness! Since i shoot semi autos and have just started my hand at reloading a red flag went up!

I shoot IDPA and 3 gun matchs , both of which you shoot fast. My question is should this happen to me (no powder, low powder,bad powder) shooting fast will my semi auto pistol not load the next round or is it possible for me to fire another round in to a pluged barrel?

(is a low charge load going to fully cycle an semi auto ?)

Thanks in advance for any imput , Safety First !

Jim Watson · December 10, 2001, 08:55 PM

I have seen bullets stuck in the chamber throat of an auto so a round could not be chambered, and bullets stuck across the cylinder gap of a revolver, which ties it up completely. I have also seen bulged barrels when the bullet got far enough down the barrel to fire another round behind it.
There are a number of factors; no powder vs a little powder, cast vs jacketed bullets, clean smooth barrel vs dirty or rough bore. Hard to predict just what will happen, I have seen a photo of a gun with the nose of a bullet just sticking out of the muzzle. Good thing it was the last of the string.

I have not seen a "squib" load cycle the action of an auto. The time I saw one bulged in person, the shooter thought he had a misfire, and did a Tap, Rack, Bang which loaded a fresh round behind the bullet lodged halfway down the barrel. So he got a Tap, Rack, Boom. It did not blow up the gun, it bulged the barrel, the slide came back hard, and wedged the bushing over the bulge. It took some hammering to get it apart, but after that, all it took was a new barrel to get the gun going again.

I had a powder measure that would not meter my usual powder. It never gave a round with no powder, or a stuck bullet, but it gave several very light charges before I figured out what was going on and changed powder, from 700X flake to W231 ball. One grain of powder will lob a .38 wadcutter to a 25 yd target and land in keyhole about a foot and a half low. Found that out at the state PPC championship.

That has been a long time. We are both more careful now.

stans · December 10, 2001, 08:57 PM

I saw this happen during a IPSC match many years ago. We heard bang, bang, bang, pop, STOP!, STOP!, bang, then nothing. The shooter was using a Colt Gold Cup and 230 grain ammo loaded to major. The shot fired after the dud caused the barrel to bulge and jambed the slide. The shooter was shaken, but uninjured and the gun was repairable. Had this been a high pressure round, like the 40 S&W, things might not have turned out so well.

The key is preventing duds. Pay close attention when reloading your ammo. Make sure each shell has the proper powder charge and you will probably not have any problems. I have loaded thousands of rounds and no duds to date.

Gunzo · December 10, 2001, 10:34 PM

Twiceshy: that low pop you heard was probably just the primer, with no powder ignition, or the complete absence of powder all together. Depending on the bullet wt. or barrel length, even a reduced amount of powder that ignites will push the bullet out. I've seen um fall on the floor in front of the gun, kinda like a cartoon.

I've seen 1911's that had 2 bullels in the barrel, that ruined the barrel and nothing else. On the other hand, I once got to closly inspect a M29 Smith that had 3,4,or maybe 5 bullets in the barrel! The first bullet a squib, the rest... FULL POWER! Needless to say, everything on & in the gun but grips was scrap. The interesting thing was, that the gun stayed together and knowone was hurt.

I'm not trying to scare you, just an interesting subject, to me, anyway. Stans told you right, pay attention when you reload and you'll be fine. Millions, maybe billions of reloads have been fired with very gratifying results.

Gunzo

C.R.Sam · December 11, 2001, 12:17 AM

One of the hazzards of rapid fire shooting. Squib loads can happen, not often but they do happen.

I have had two with handloads (out of several hundred thousand) and several with commercial ammo, including a few with commercial match ammo.

Have also had em with issue milspec ammo.

They get real interesting when one is in a hurry to clear the malf and puts the gun in operation without checkin to see if the barrel is clear. Minor malf becomes major broken gun.

Sam

dntorbert · December 11, 2001, 01:22 PM

I load squibs for quiet shooting in basement with military surplus rifles and have found that as little as .1 of a grain will get a lead ball out of a 20 inch barrel but jacket bullets will stick with a lot more powder than that. Another thing to watch for is the small case pistol rounds like 32 25 that are very sensitive to variations (when the powder load is in the 2-3 grain range .1 of grain variation low may stick one)

KP95DAO · December 11, 2001, 03:55 PM

I saw a person at a IDPA match this year who had a squib round and he racked the slide and fired another round resulting in a bulged barrel and a magazine being blown out and apart.

Those who realised what had occurred did not have time to warn him to stop before he fired again.

I think that too often we get caught up in the heat of the competition and fail to remember SAFETY COMES FIRST ABOVE ALL ELSE!

If you think there is a safety issue-STOP. I don't think anyone will have an objection to your rerunning the stage under those circumstances.

Think about it.

SDC · December 11, 2001, 03:56 PM

Ditto for what was said above; the real danger of a squib when you're shooting IPSC or IDPA isn't that it'll cycle another round into the chamber, it's that you'll go into your clearance drill ("tap, rack, BANG"), and drive another round into the barrel without thinking about what went wrong. I've seen a couple of squibs, but the ROs were fast enough to stop the shooters from firing another round.

Rocklobster · December 11, 2001, 08:14 PM

Squib loads are the main reason I don't like progressives(other than high primers).I like to weigh each load and bullet.Takes along time!you say.Yep.All the guys at the range bitch for a long time after they give me their money,too.

December 10, 2001, 08:22 PM	#1
twiceshy Member Join Date: December 9, 2001 Posts: 16	Hangfires/bullet stays in barrel This has not happened to me and untill yesterday i have onle heard of it happening. The fellow in the bay next to me at the range was shooting a revolver with his own reloads. three times i heard a very muffeled low pop, and each time he would unload the gun and drive the bullet out with a hammer and a rod. When i asked what was wrong he told me that he may have not put enough powder in the case or the powder was bad. (OK ?) He was shooting slow and didn't fire a second round in to a pluged barrel, thank goodness! Since i shoot semi autos and have just started my hand at reloading a red flag went up! I shoot IDPA and 3 gun matchs , both of which you shoot fast. My question is should this happen to me (no powder, low powder,bad powder) shooting fast will my semi auto pistol not load the next round or is it possible for me to fire another round in to a pluged barrel? (is a low charge load going to fully cycle an semi auto ?) Thanks in advance for any imput , Safety First ! __________________ Once bitten "Twiceshy"

December 10, 2001, 10:34 PM	#4
Gunzo Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Location: Kentucky Posts: 48	Twiceshy: that low pop you heard was probably just the primer, with no powder ignition, or the complete absence of powder all together. Depending on the bullet wt. or barrel length, even a reduced amount of powder that ignites will push the bullet out. I've seen um fall on the floor in front of the gun, kinda like a cartoon. I've seen 1911's that had 2 bullels in the barrel, that ruined the barrel and nothing else. On the other hand, I once got to closly inspect a M29 Smith that had 3,4,or maybe 5 bullets in the barrel! The first bullet a squib, the rest... FULL POWER! Needless to say, everything on & in the gun but grips was scrap. The interesting thing was, that the gun stayed together and knowone was hurt. I'm not trying to scare you, just an interesting subject, to me, anyway. Stans told you right, pay attention when you reload and you'll be fine. Millions, maybe billions of reloads have been fired with very gratifying results. Gunzo __________________ work when you have to, shoot when you can

December 11, 2001, 03:55 PM	#7
KP95DAO Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2000 Posts: 699	Squib rounds in competition. I saw a person at a IDPA match this year who had a squib round and he racked the slide and fired another round resulting in a bulged barrel and a magazine being blown out and apart. Those who realised what had occurred did not have time to warn him to stop before he fired again. I think that too often we get caught up in the heat of the competition and fail to remember SAFETY COMES FIRST ABOVE ALL ELSE! If you think there is a safety issue-STOP. I don't think anyone will have an objection to your rerunning the stage under those circumstances. Think about it.

December 11, 2001, 03:56 PM	#8
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Ditto for what was said above; the real danger of a squib when you're shooting IPSC or IDPA isn't that it'll cycle another round into the chamber, it's that you'll go into your clearance drill ("tap, rack, BANG"), and drive another round into the barrel without thinking about what went wrong. I've seen a couple of squibs, but the ROs were fast enough to stop the shooters from firing another round. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

December 10, 2001, 08:55 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I have seen bullets stuck in the chamber throat of an auto so a round could not be chambered, and bullets stuck across the cylinder gap of a revolver, which ties it up completely. I have also seen bulged barrels when the bullet got far enough down the barrel to fire another round behind it. There are a number of factors; no powder vs a little powder, cast vs jacketed bullets, clean smooth barrel vs dirty or rough bore. Hard to predict just what will happen, I have seen a photo of a gun with the nose of a bullet just sticking out of the muzzle. Good thing it was the last of the string. I have not seen a "squib" load cycle the action of an auto. The time I saw one bulged in person, the shooter thought he had a misfire, and did a Tap, Rack, Bang which loaded a fresh round behind the bullet lodged halfway down the barrel. So he got a Tap, Rack, Boom. It did not blow up the gun, it bulged the barrel, the slide came back hard, and wedged the bushing over the bulge. It took some hammering to get it apart, but after that, all it took was a new barrel to get the gun going again. I had a powder measure that would not meter my usual powder. It never gave a round with no powder, or a stuck bullet, but it gave several very light charges before I figured out what was going on and changed powder, from 700X flake to W231 ball. One grain of powder will lob a .38 wadcutter to a 25 yd target and land in keyhole about a foot and a half low. Found that out at the state PPC championship. That has been a long time. We are both more careful now.

December 10, 2001, 08:57 PM	#3
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	I saw this happen during a IPSC match many years ago. We heard bang, bang, bang, pop, STOP!, STOP!, bang, then nothing. The shooter was using a Colt Gold Cup and 230 grain ammo loaded to major. The shot fired after the dud caused the barrel to bulge and jambed the slide. The shooter was shaken, but uninjured and the gun was repairable. Had this been a high pressure round, like the 40 S&W, things might not have turned out so well. The key is preventing duds. Pay close attention when reloading your ammo. Make sure each shell has the proper powder charge and you will probably not have any problems. I have loaded thousands of rounds and no duds to date.

December 11, 2001, 12:17 AM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	One of the hazzards of rapid fire shooting. Squib loads can happen, not often but they do happen. I have had two with handloads (out of several hundred thousand) and several with commercial ammo, including a few with commercial match ammo. Have also had em with issue milspec ammo. They get real interesting when one is in a hurry to clear the malf and puts the gun in operation without checkin to see if the barrel is clear. Minor malf becomes major broken gun. Sam

December 11, 2001, 01:22 PM	#6
dntorbert Member Join Date: July 20, 2001 Location: ALABAMA Posts: 78	I load squibs for quiet shooting in basement with military surplus rifles and have found that as little as .1 of a grain will get a lead ball out of a 20 inch barrel but jacket bullets will stick with a lot more powder than that. Another thing to watch for is the small case pistol rounds like 32 25 that are very sensitive to variations (when the powder load is in the 2-3 grain range .1 of grain variation low may stick one)

December 11, 2001, 08:14 PM	#9
Rocklobster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2001 Location: Georgia Posts: 188	Squib loads are the main reason I don't like progressives(other than high primers).I like to weigh each load and bullet.Takes along time!you say.Yep.All the guys at the range bitch for a long time after they give me their money,too.