40 S&W Alliant PP

[davebell18]

Hi, I am fairly new to reloading. I have bought some books on reloading which has helped a lot and reading these forums. I am having problems on finding a good recipe for my Springfield XD-40 S&W. I have power pistol, magtech primers, 135gr berry's bullets, and single shot brass of different brands. I have tried many different grains of powder and some different OAL but still have not been able to keep a 2 inch circle at 10yds. I was given some bullets made with Accurate No. 5 and was able to shoot very accurate, so i know i am shooting right for the most part. I am using all LEE reloading tools. I have the classic torrent press with the perfect powder measure. If you could help share some recipes that have worked out great for you i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks Dave

[larry60]

I am loading 155gr JHP Montana Gold bullets and 8.0gr Alliant Power Pistol for my CZ75b. It gives me good performance and good accuracy.

[davebell18]

Yea, many people have good loads for heavier bullets but im wondering if anyone has found a good one with 135gr. Otherwise if someone who has years of experience could teach me how to tell how deep i should seat the bullet and how i can create my own recipe. I know the max and min length go but where do i start and what about the powder? I have found out where my gun does not extract the brass when fire and that to the max is i believe 5 different holes i can use on my press. Thanks for the help.

[Shootest]

Why did you choose to start with such an extremely light bullet and for what reason do you want to stay with it? I would use something in the 165g to 180g range.

[madmo44mag]

That bullet is way to light IMHO.
Yes it will keep the recoil down but consistent accuracy may suffer.
As for seating depth you will need to play around with that because not all guns function the same with the same seating depth, load, bullet weight.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Why would accuracy suffer from a light bullet? We're talking 30 feet here, not 800 yards.

There's no reason that bullet wouldn't work fine in a 40SW.


It's possible that your gun just doesn't like those bullets. What was the bullet used in the ammo that was loaded with AA5?

Try loading them to that maximum length that will work in your chamber and magazine.

The Lyman 49th lists a starting load of 7.3gr Power Pistol under a 135gr bullet with a max load of 8.2.

Find the max length that will work in your gun and start at a load of 7.3gr. Load up a magazine worth at 7.3, 7.4, 7.5..... up to 8.2 and see what works best.

[serf 'rett]

Alliant's online guide doesn't go as low as a 135 grain bullet in the 40S&W. Just starting to tinker with Power Pistol, but I'm using Berry's 165 and 180 grain. I checked several different sources and found more data for the 165 and 180 gr. than other weights and that influenced my bullet choices.

Any particular reason for using the 135's (other than lower cost)? Someone may be able to give better direction if we knew what you were loading for.
Light target load? Plinking? Combat pistol comp? Self defense practice?

[davebell18]

The reason why i went with the 135gr because i was told why mess around with the recoil if i am just plinking and 10yd targets.
The load that worked good for me was also under a berry's 135gr.
I am just wondering why #5 works for the 135gr perfectly but power pistol doesn't.

Thanks everyone keep it coming if you have anything to say. Every little bit helps me out a lot!

[Shootest]

Some guns don’t like some powder/bullet combinations. I would pickup some no 5 and see if you can duplicate the rounds you were given. If so you would know that your loading equipment and procedures are good.

[davebell18]

The only problem with that is, there is no one that sells it around by me. I have cabelas but they dont carry #5 and im not paying a 25.00 haz fee.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Light bullets only have less recoil if they're loaded to equal or lower speeds. It's not unusual for folks to "feel" like a light bullet actually had MORE recoil than a heavy bullet when both are loaded to max because the light bullet accelerates faster and therefore applies the force of recoil faster.
The actual measured force may or may not be more, but many people think it feels like more.

[chasep255]

I used to make a load for my Glock 22 using 6.7gr of PP. I was using 135gr lead plated bullets which are supposed to use load data for lead cast bullets since they aren't true FMJs. If your bullets are true FMJ rounds then go with what the guy above said.

The Lyman 49th lists a starting load of 7.3gr Power Pistol under a 135gr bullet with a max load of 8.2.

[scsov509]

I was given some bullets made with Accurate No. 5 and was able to shoot very accurate, so i know i am shooting right for the most part.

Can I just verify that you personally have not yet loaded anything that has fired accurately from your gun? If that's the case, then before you conclude that your gun doesn't like the bullet/powder combination, you might consider that it's just your handloads in general. If you've only seen accuracy from factory rounds or those loaded by someone else, then there's a pretty good chance that it's something you're doing to your rounds that are causing the problem.

If that's the case, then two places I'd start looking are 1) Case Charge, and 2) Neck Tension. Are you certain that you're charging every case with the same charge of Power Pistol? However you're charging your cases (powder measure, Auto-Disk, dipper, etc), I'd try a small batch of say 20 rounds where you measure every charge just to make sure you're getting consistent charges for every round. If you find that you're charging process is less than consistent, then that might well be the culprit.

Another place to check is neck tension. Take a few of your completed rounds and see if you can push the bullet deeper in the case when pressing the round into the side or top of your loading bench. If the bullet isn't staying secure, then that will certainly lead to erratic accuracy. If that's the case, then it could mean you're using too much case flare or that you simply need more crimp to keep that bullet securely in place until the proper and consistent pressure can build up in the cartridge to send the projectile downrange.

For what it's worth, I've had amazing accuracy with Power Pistol in every caliber that I've ever tried it. And like Peetzakilla pointed out, we're talking 30 ft and not 800 yards. The fact that you're not getting at least reasonable accuracy at such a short distance indicates something is probably not right. Try those two suggestions if you haven't already and let us know what you find.

[davebell18]

Scsov509, Yes you are right that i have not loaded anything myself that has been accurate.

I use the Lee Auto-Disk on my torrent press which i have measured before and is very accurate. I will test that again to make sure nothing has changed though.


For the neck tension i have noticed that once or twice actually. Not knowing exactly what that would do, i did know it was wrong and changed it right away. After that the same problem still consists. The way that i have my flaring set up now is very tight when i put the bullet up on top of the case when seating(no trimmings are coming off of the bullet when seating).

Thank you everyone for your ideas, please keep thoughts coming. Thank you

[noylj]

.40 S&W
Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL
Sierra JHP 135 Power Pistol 8.0 Start
JHP 135 Power Pistol 8.4
JHP 135 Power Pistol 9.3 1340 Max 181 1.105
Sierra JHP 135 Power Pistol 9.5 1420 192

[wover98]

wow, I am new at reloading the .40 as well, but those loads look hot compaired to what I have seen so far, but I AM a noob.
OP.... My first few rounds were horrible, I think I did not have enough case flare and seated the bullets not true to bore if that makes sense. I now have my case flare die set to go about an eighth of an inch into the case and I put enough crimp on it so I can just tell its there. I have much better results. Not perfect yet, but better.
Good luck and let us know how you do.

Will

[davebell18]

I think that i must not be seeing something right. If i can group bullets very good with factory ammo and the other reloads i got from a guy i know, i must not be reloading my bullets correctly. I just reset all of my dies according to the lee manual but put a little more flare on. My bullets now seem real tight around the neck and look good. I will be trying them tomorrow most likely. If i not for sure this weekend and will let you guys know. Also i have notice about 1/4 of the rim of the shot brass with black blow back(not sure what the correct term for this is). Correct me if i am wrong but does that mean i didn't have the bullets tight enough around the rim before? Hopefully what i did tonight will help. Thanks again guys!

[scsov509]

Also i have notice about 1/4 of the rim of the shot brass with black blow back(not sure what the correct term for this is). Correct me if i am wrong but does that mean i didn't have the bullets tight enough around the rim before?

Black around the mouth indicates the cartridge didn't built enough pressure to expand the brass and seal the chamber before the bullet was released. It's basically an indication of low chamber pressure, and is usually caused by low charge weight or insufficient neck tension. The darkened cases are not in themselves a problem, but in your case they are probably an indication that you're not getting good neck tension on your completed rounds. If the rounds you made tonight seem better as far as neck tension goes then you should see better results tomorrow.

[zippy13]

davebell18,
A basic question for the reloading novice:
Are you using a good scale (not an uncalibrated digital with a low battery) to verify your loads or are you trusting the Lee equipment to deliver the loads shown in the charts? If you've looked into this forum's archives, you'll have noticed that the Lee systems are not always on the mark.

[davebell18]

Zippy, I am using the Lee scale. I checked it again last night about 10 rounds and it is weighing out to be the same as each other.

[Sevens]

While it's true that ANY fixed chamber powder measure (such as a powder dipper or a Lee Auto Disk powder measure) may not be dumping charges that a chart says they will dump, please don't take zippy13's comment to mean that all Lee equipment is inaccurate.

Your Lee Safety Scale, for example, is highly accurate, as long as you all well versed in how to use it and especially-- how to read the tenth's display. It can be tricky and it's probably the most difficult scale on the market to use. But accurate? Oh heck yes, very accurate.

[zippy13]

Sevens, thanks for the clarification.
My concern was that a new reloader was blindly using a volume system to meter his powder without using a scale to verify the charge. Since davebell8 uses a scale, he now has one less item on the potential problem check list.

[davebell18]

Well guys i did fire off 10 rounds into a target at 8yds. I believe it was a little better than before but not in a group that i would suspect. I bought some factory loads to compare again. It wont be til a couple of days because i still got snow in back and lots of sitting water. I was a little uncomfortable with my pistol rest so that may be why i didnt do as good as i suspected. I will get back to you guys in a week or so when things clear up here. Thanks everyone.

[Jim243]

First, Welcome dave to the FLF. I don't think we have talked before.

Let me explain, I am not a fan of Berry Bullets and definitally not a fan of plated bullets. Many find then acceptable for their loads, but they have never worked for me, so don't get discouraged.

Plated bullets are a lot like lead bullets and everything I have read says to load them using lead loading data instead of jacketed bullet data. It does not work for me. If you use the low end (min) load for jacketed bullets as a start for your loads you many get better results.

What works the best for me is to use a OAL of 1.125 for a 135 grain 40 S&W bullet.

Now lead bullets have less resistance than jacketed bullets and will start down the tube sooner, this may be why you are seeing your cases blackened a full burn is not happening with your loads. Second is Power Pistol (I do not use a lot of it) in a slower burning powder used with Mag loads on cases that have been crimped to allow it to fully burn. But many people use it with good results. You may need to use a Lee Factory Crimp die (not to crimp) to insure that your case is title against the bullet all the way around.

I like 135 grain bullets for my 40 S&W, but I will only use jacketed bullets, a few pennies more each but I think worth the money and a lot less problems for me. My recommendation would be Nosler 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Points, you can get them from Midway USA at a good price.

Also I would use a faster powder (my preference) such as Win 231 which meters well and is a much cleaner buring powder.

I know you have the Power Pistol and the Berry's, but sometimes you just have to step back and change the direction you are going in.

Good Luck
Jim

[steve4102]

Have you measured your crimp? The taper crimp should only be enough to remove the flare plus maybe a hair more, nothing more. The crimp is NOT used to secure the bullet, only to remove the flare. If you are over crimping your plated bullets accuracy can suffer.