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Old March 20, 2014, 11:33 PM   #26
MarkCO
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I understand the anger and frustration, however, I have a hard time with your use of the word "Terrorism". No violence was used against you, and there were really no actual threats against you. Sure, based on what you wrote, you may have been singled out and harassed, but it does not appear that you were terrorized.
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Old March 21, 2014, 02:20 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by MarkCo
understand the anger and frustration, however, I have a hard time with your use of the word "Terrorism". No violence was used against you, and there were really no actual threats against you. Sure, based on what you wrote, you may have been singled out and harassed, but it does not appear that you were terrorized.
Mark, I have thought about the use of this word and some have criticized it, but all I have to say is this.. The border official struck "terror" in me, therefore I was terrorized .. I felt very worried, nervous and afraid.. There was a point of the ordeal when he was harshly interrogating me and talking about being put in handcuffs (in theory, if I was a criminal, he said) that I feared I may be arrested and not get to go home or see my family, etc. The experience became downright scary and I panicked. Sadly, I failed to read the manual on "How American Gun Owners Should Visit Canada" or "Visiting Canada as an American CHL Holder For Dummies". If they sell such a book, please send me the link so I can buy it and read it thoroughly. Considering, my experience, I would be more than happy to buy such a book.

You say there was no threats against me?? Detaining a person is always a threatening act IMO, especially when you interrogate them and ransack (although done gently) their vehicle. Yeah, they were looking through all my stuff , underneath my seats going through all my belongings.. That to me is threatening, sorry, I guess we all have our definition of a threat.

The whole incident has caused me a lot of emotional distress and that is also a form of terror, IMO.. I'm still shooken up and trying to get the incident out of my brain. I now have a phobia of travelling to Canada, despite how much I want to see the country and experience its beauty.

I am still pulled in both ways if I ever want to visit that beautiful country that is just less than one hour north of my house ever again, because of the miserable experience. No, I don't have to go visit it.. I don't even have to leave my house.. I guess I just like having freedom to do things.. It's part of who I am..

To me, making a person feel scared, intimidated, harassed and force them into detainment is terrifying, hence why I say I was terrorized. That doesn't necessarily equate to being a victim of a terrorist attack.

Last edited by Evergreen; March 21, 2014 at 02:28 AM.
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Old March 21, 2014, 09:26 AM   #28
Glenn E. Meyer
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Not guns - I was being interviewed by a Canadian university for a job in a month's time. However, the school was close to the border where we lived in WNY so my wife and I decided to take a look around.

At the border, the Canadian guard asked - Why are entering Canada? I should have said tourist or shopping but I said I have a job interview.

LOOKING FOR WORK IN CANADA - ALERT, ALERT

That ruined the rest of the day as we were taken to interrogation. We were finally spring by a supervisor who said - Oh, for God's sake he is a PhD and going to the university. He let us go.
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Old March 21, 2014, 12:54 PM   #29
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You screwed up, Glenn!

If you had told the border guard that the university had contacted you, regarding a position, things would have been a lot different, probably....

We all have to remember that A)border guards/customs agents are trained to react to certain triggers of speech, appearance and behavior. Trip the trigger, and they do what they are trained and expected to do. Hold you and look for evidence of something, until and unless a higher level type makes a decision.

And B) some of them are idiots....
(not exclusive to any one profession, idiots are everywhere)
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Old March 21, 2014, 02:31 PM   #30
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44 - funny. Years later I was living in Portland and was invited up the University of British Columbia to give a talk. When I got to the border, they asked why?

I said I was giving a speech at UBC. Are you getting paid! NO - sez I (well, )

I learned.
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Old March 21, 2014, 03:18 PM   #31
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I crossed fairly frequently at the time, as my guns were stored with a friend in Lynnwood. On one crossing back, the RCMP guy asked if I had any guns in the car. I asked, "why? Do I need any?"

He responded, "no sir, this is Canada!"

Yep. They're silly folks at times.
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Old March 21, 2014, 03:29 PM   #32
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My wife has a friend that lives not far from Niagara Falls (which I've never seen), and we have occasionally talked about going there for a visit. But stories like this (and others from various Canadian border crossings) really make the idea lose its appeal.

I generally don't go where I'm not welcome. There are plenty of nice places this side of the border to go see.
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Old March 21, 2014, 07:39 PM   #33
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It has been some years since I worked for this company, but I was inbound to Canada on a secured load (prototypes of the Military kind) that was being brought in for test and evaluation and the Customs agent asked in a joking tone any Guns, Grenades, Rocket launchers or Explosives on board...should have seen the look on her face when I said yes!...it actually made my day...but things did get a bit exciting when she hit the alarm....

But seriously, going to Canada and dealing with Customs, is usually painless, fairly quick and you are thru and on your way with relative ease, the thing to remember is be polite, patient, answer the questions honestly and don't volunteer any information not asked for and if you don't understand a question or if it seems to be going in a bizarre (to you direction) ask them the purpose of the line they are pursuing, it normally ends it right there.

There actually was a book available at one time an insider view on how to deal with Custom agents in various parts of the world, but I haven't seen a copy in years.
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Old March 22, 2014, 09:53 AM   #34
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Not sure if this relates to the thread, but on my last trip back home to France I had an interesting encounter. Doing the hipster thing by lounging in my favorite café in Paris, I made some quick notes on my laptop which has two very large and very noticeable stickers on it......NRA and "Don't tread on Me" stickers.

The only people who were shocked....were Americans. The French people around me didn't care less or know what the deal was about. The fact that a Frenchman espoused those beliefs really surprised and maybe even offended these American tourists. Otherwise I received no attention from police/security anywhere.
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Old March 22, 2014, 11:00 AM   #35
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Not to divert but Niagara Falls is awesome to see, esp. from the Canadian side. The Maid of the Mist is great. Note the restaurants on the Canadian side are tourist traps. Toronto and Vancouver are also neat places to visit.

One has to decide if their lack of gun rights would keep you from seeing things. I've been to the UK and we know their general attitude but I enjoyed it.

Wouldn't live there but common sense on visits avoids most problems.
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Old March 22, 2014, 11:48 AM   #36
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Evergreen, if you want to file that complaint, you should do so. Zealous bureaucrats need to be calmed down by their superiors sometimes, and citizen complaints are a vehicle to effect that. To be frank, I would not be upset over the interrogation or the search, that's the job they have. I would complain about the manner and attitude of the officer.

The border has changed, used to be able to cross at Blaine or Sumas with just a simple question or two, and a wave-off. Now we have drug smuggling, gun running, illegal aliens, terrorists, pedophiles, all kinds of big issues there.

The border at Penticton used to be a yellow line across the asphalt road, with a little kiosk beside the road. You were supposed to stop and call the Customs office if you crossed the border after hours. Of course, we never did that.
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Old March 22, 2014, 02:53 PM   #37
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One has to decide if their lack of gun rights would keep you from seeing things. I've been to the UK and we know their general attitude but I enjoyed it.

Wouldn't live there but common sense on visits avoids most problems.
I lived most of my life without the legal right to carry, so being gunless for a short trip wouldn't bother me all that much. I just don't want to deal with the unwarranted harassment a computer check revealing my CPL status might trigger. I get enough stress in my life, I don't need that crap.
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Old March 22, 2014, 03:05 PM   #38
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I too have been reluctant to go to Canada. I live near Tacoma, and only 4 hours or so from some of the best snowboarding mountains in the world. Yet, I've been reluctant to go north.

I've heard horror stories of people being harassed and vehicles torn apart because of an American license plate, any US military veteran status, or an errant empty shell casing on the floorboard of a vehicle.

I also have heard - although it doesn't apply to me - that anyone with a DUI in his background is prevented from entering Canada.

Shame for Canada, I'd probably drop a few thousand dollars there but for their restrictive attitudes against lawful gun owners.

I would definitely follow complaints anywhere that would listen, and note all the money you WON'T be spending there in the future. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.
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Old March 22, 2014, 04:12 PM   #39
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File a report. Keep it unemotional. Stick to the facts. If there are no consequences for bad behavior, it will never improve.
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Old March 22, 2014, 06:30 PM   #40
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This is so incredibly bogus. Yes, borders are different, but that doesn't mean that the customs officers have the right to be the "morality police" to see who gets to enter and who doesn't. OK, so owning guns makes you "suspicious"--but the only relevant inquiry is "do you have any guns?" To which the answer is "No, but you are welcome to search." If you have no weapons, then that should be the end of it. The number of guns you won, where they are kept, whether they are locked up or not, is all completely and totally irrelevant.

I would be really surprised if Canada can access records of every firearm owned by Americans. The federal government is prohibited from maintaining such a database, but even if it did, it would be incomplete. Not all states run NICS checks--and even if they did, that doesn't mean that a transaction was actually completed. Further, a huge number of computer databases do not communicate with each other--this was one of the big problems with reporting of felony convictions and involuntary commitments to NCIS was incompatible programming that would take billions to "correct"--and would be as successful as the attempt to create a national ID that failed so miserably despite all the money and time spent on it.

Border states may be different, but I have to question whether there is any sort of national database available to Canadian customs. Anyone have inside information?
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Old March 22, 2014, 07:40 PM   #41
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Ehhh, I don't know. I've been to Montreal a few times, but the last time they retained me and searched my car and asked me the same questions several times. This had nothing to do with my gun permit as I didn't have one at the time.
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Old March 22, 2014, 08:14 PM   #42
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I've been feeling like a ping pong ball with my emotions and these responses have really intrigued me and got me thinking. It seems like it is hard to make a consensus of my treatment and the correct action to take or if I should take any action. I've been hearing a lot of people saying I was certainly abused and it would be morally wrong for me to not report his actions and to help prevent bullies like him from harassing other innocent tourists who have the unfortunate experience of having to deal with them on their next Canadian vacation. On the other hand, I have been hearing people who say that harassing, interrogating, searching and intimidating tourists (and their own Canadian citizens) is what they are paid to do and maybe his line of questioning and harsh treatment is just a normal part of the job and he was not out of line.

Last edited by Evergreen; March 22, 2014 at 09:07 PM.
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Old March 22, 2014, 09:04 PM   #43
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OKOK... I'm thinking my letter sucks.. I will remove it..

ACtually, I'll just forget about it.. I am thinking that harassing, detaining, intimidating and searching tourists (and citizens) is normal procedure.. I guess I will just have to be prepared next time.

Here's an expression , my old man never taught me:
"Man up and take the interrogation like a man."

Cavity Search , well umm..

Last edited by Evergreen; March 22, 2014 at 09:22 PM.
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Old March 22, 2014, 09:36 PM   #44
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I'll restate that I think you should file a complaint.

Afterall, I doubt it's the lawful normal business person that is smuggling guns and drugs into Canada... you know, people with actually something to lose.

Instead, they should focus their efforts on actual criminals who are breaking laws.

It's the same concept as TSA strip searching little white grandmothers at the airport, and letting the arabs walk on through with minimal investigation because of the PC issues in our world... despite the fact that arabs have been responsible for some 99% of airline terrorism in history...

Profiling is a dirty word in the US, but used effectively worldwide to identify and isolate real threats versus non-threats in a world of limited resources to defend against crime and terrorism.

While this Canadian border guard is harassing you, it's quite possible he's wasting resources better spent on real suspicious people doing actual illegal stuff...

So if you take that angle, you have a great argument IMO. Limited resources wasted on people like you actually lesson safety.
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Old March 23, 2014, 09:11 AM   #45
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ACtually, I'll just forget about it.. I am thinking that harassing, detaining, intimidating and searching tourists (and citizens) is normal procedure.. I guess I will just have to be prepared next time
Possibly - however as one of the first to relay similar treatment let me say - my gut feeling is the guy you encountered went too far & you should send a letter.
Another poster confirmed that he had first hand knowledge/experience with the guy and I got the impression that the guy takes being a to new levels.
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Old March 23, 2014, 07:42 PM   #46
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Maybe officer Sidhu can be hired to secure our own southern borders?
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Old March 23, 2014, 09:27 PM   #47
Glenn E. Meyer
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I think we have played this out. Nothing more to be said, now we are just complaining.

Thus, closed.
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