Colt Positive

Doug Ridley · June 6, 2015, 06:52 PM

Saw a Colt Positive .38 in excellent condition at my LGS and I'm wondering if I can shoot the same standard .38 ammo that I use in my little S&W 642 and my Colt Detective Special?

SaxonPig · June 6, 2015, 07:21 PM

No. The Police Positive uses a short 38 the same as the .360" 38 S&W. The longer .357" 38 Special won't chamber.

Dfariswheel · June 6, 2015, 07:28 PM

Maybe......

This depends on WHICH "Police Positive" you have.
Colt had two revolvers of the same design, one the "Police Positive", the other the "Police Positive Special".

The Police Positive was built to shoot short, now obsolete cartridges like the old .32 S&W and .38 S&W.
Colt didn't want the S&W name on Colt pistols so they just changed the bullet shape slightly and sold the ammo as the Colt .32 New Police and Colt .38 New Police.
The S&W and Colt versions were totally interchangeable.

The Colt Police Positive Special was made with a longer cylinder and frame so it could shoot longer cartridges like the .38 Special.

If you have an actual Colt Police Positive, you cannot shoot the same .38 Special ammo as the S&W 642 or Detective Special.
The cylinder will be too short to chamber the longer .38 Special, and the barrel was bored for the larger .38 S&W cartridge.

Check the barrel on the Colt.
If it says "Colt Police Positive", then ".38 Special" it's a Colt Police Positive Special made for the .38 Special.
If it says "Police Positive" and ".38 Caliber", it's a Police Positive and chambered for the .38 S&W/.38 New Police.

Also, compare the frame and cylinder of your Detective Special to the Police Positive.
If the frame and cylinder of the Police Positive are noticeably shorter, it's a .38 S&W/.38 New Police.
The .38 S&W/Colt New Police is still sold by a few ammo makers.

Doug Ridley · June 6, 2015, 07:50 PM

Thanks. Its what I thought but not sure.

**4V50 Gary** · June 7, 2015, 12:20 AM

Severn's book on Colt Revolvers is an excellent source.

Driftwood Johnson · June 7, 2015, 01:13 AM

Howdy

Excellent answer by Dfariswheel.

Here are a few photos. The top two guns are Police Positive Specials. The little gun at the bottom is a 32 caliber Police Positive.

Barrel markings on the two Police Positive Specials.

Sorry, I don't have a 38 Police Positive chambered for the shorter 38 S&W cartridge for comparison, but the cylinder will be shorter.

**Mike Irwin** · June 7, 2015, 08:36 AM

I have an early 1930s vintage Colt Police Positive in .32 S&W Long.

The barrel is marked only .32 Police..

Clark · June 24, 2015, 12:18 AM

Driftwood,
Those are great Colts and great pics.
They would not mean so much to me, if I did not love my own Colts so much.
I don't think my Colts are as nice as yours.. nor or my pics, but Colt double action revolvers have mystique about them, like NAZI, confederate, or Indian artifacts.
They don't make them anymore.

My grandfather carried a 38 S&W in the Alaskan Gold rush. Hand loaded and in a Colt, it is still a great self defense round.

James K · June 24, 2015, 12:56 AM

FWIW, the term "positive" comes from Colt's hammer block safety, which they installed beginning about 1909 and of which they were justifiably proud. They called it a "positive safety" because, unlike the S&W hammer block of the period, it was mechanically operated, and did not depend on a spring for proper functioning.

Jim

johnwilliamson062 · June 24, 2015, 02:46 AM

I didn't realize the positive and positive special varied so much in size.
I had a 38 positive and it was the best feeling revolver I have ever sot. Great grip size, balance, trigger, etc. I just hated hunting for the 38 SW ammo.
I plan to get another in 22lr.

**Mike Irwin** · June 24, 2015, 08:39 AM

"I didn't realize the positive and positive special varied so much in size."

Yep.

The Police Positive was derived from Colt's earlier small-frame guns that couldn't accommodate longer cartridges like the .38 Special or the .32-20.

The Police Positive Special used the larger frame size of the (I think) Army/Navy revolver series.

It's analagous to S&W's I frame and K frame revolvers.

johnwilliamson062 · June 24, 2015, 01:38 PM

Any thoughts of getting a 38 special positive special just went out the window.

**Mike Irwin** · June 24, 2015, 03:04 PM

"Any thoughts of getting a 38 special positive special just went out the window."

Huh?

Why?

James K · June 24, 2015, 08:46 PM

There were two Colt series that had the word "positive" given to them, the Police Positive, which is what this thread is about, and the Pocket Positive, which is a quite small gun, smaller than the S&W J-frame. The latter was essentially the New Pocket with the positive safety and was made only in .32 caliber. The later small .38's (Detective Special, Cobra) were made on the same frame as the Police Positive.

Jim

Mike Weber · June 24, 2015, 10:45 PM

I have a 1929 vintage Colt Police Positive Special in .38 Special with 6 barrel. Mine isn't as pretty as the one in Driftwood's picture, but still makes occasional trips to the range. I'm used to shooting much larger heavier revolvers and the old Colt feels like a toy gun in my hand.

James K · June 24, 2015, 11:21 PM

Of course Colt made the heavier Officers Model (it went by other names as well) and the large New Service for cartridges like the .45 Colt. But it was the PPS that went into the holsters of at least half the police in the U.S. in the period from c. 1910 to the 1980's. The other half carried the S&W M&P, now the Model 10.

The division was, to a large extent, geographical. Police in the northeast, midwest and far west tended toward Colts; officers in the south and south central part of the country seemed to like S&W. The preference was so marked that the Mason-Dixon line was often called the "Smith & Wesson Line", although Maryland police stuck with Colts.

Jim

johnwilliamson062 · June 26, 2015, 11:02 PM

I liked the size of the Police positive. Not interested in the larger special. 22lr positive is waht I really want anyways. Just have to find one in person or convince myself to buy one off an auction site. Given the expense of fixing Colts with even minor problems I have shied away from the latter option.

June 6, 2015, 06:52 PM	#1
Doug Ridley Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2013 Posts: 121	Colt Positive Saw a Colt Positive .38 in excellent condition at my LGS and I'm wondering if I can shoot the same standard .38 ammo that I use in my little S&W 642 and my Colt Detective Special?

June 7, 2015, 12:20 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	Severn's book on Colt Revolvers is an excellent source. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 7, 2015, 08:36 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	I have an early 1930s vintage Colt Police Positive in .32 S&W Long. The barrel is marked only .32 Police.. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 24, 2015, 12:18 AM	#8
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	Driftwood, Those are great Colts and great pics. They would not mean so much to me, if I did not love my own Colts so much. I don't think my Colts are as nice as yours.. nor or my pics, but Colt double action revolvers have mystique about them, like NAZI, confederate, or Indian artifacts. They don't make them anymore. My grandfather carried a 38 S&W in the Alaskan Gold rush. Hand loaded and in a Colt, it is still a great self defense round. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

June 24, 2015, 08:39 AM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	"I didn't realize the positive and positive special varied so much in size." Yep. The Police Positive was derived from Colt's earlier small-frame guns that couldn't accommodate longer cartridges like the .38 Special or the .32-20. The Police Positive Special used the larger frame size of the (I think) Army/Navy revolver series. It's analagous to S&W's I frame and K frame revolvers. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 6, 2015, 07:21 PM	#2
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	No. The Police Positive uses a short 38 the same as the .360" 38 S&W. The longer .357" 38 Special won't chamber.

June 6, 2015, 07:28 PM	#3
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Maybe...... This depends on WHICH "Police Positive" you have. Colt had two revolvers of the same design, one the "Police Positive", the other the "Police Positive Special". The Police Positive was built to shoot short, now obsolete cartridges like the old .32 S&W and .38 S&W. Colt didn't want the S&W name on Colt pistols so they just changed the bullet shape slightly and sold the ammo as the Colt .32 New Police and Colt .38 New Police. The S&W and Colt versions were totally interchangeable. The Colt Police Positive Special was made with a longer cylinder and frame so it could shoot longer cartridges like the .38 Special. If you have an actual Colt Police Positive, you cannot shoot the same .38 Special ammo as the S&W 642 or Detective Special. The cylinder will be too short to chamber the longer .38 Special, and the barrel was bored for the larger .38 S&W cartridge. Check the barrel on the Colt. If it says "Colt Police Positive", then ".38 Special" it's a Colt Police Positive Special made for the .38 Special. If it says "Police Positive" and ".38 Caliber", it's a Police Positive and chambered for the .38 S&W/.38 New Police. Also, compare the frame and cylinder of your Detective Special to the Police Positive. If the frame and cylinder of the Police Positive are noticeably shorter, it's a .38 S&W/.38 New Police. The .38 S&W/Colt New Police is still sold by a few ammo makers.

June 6, 2015, 07:50 PM	#4
Doug Ridley Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2013 Posts: 121	Thanks. Its what I thought but not sure.

June 7, 2015, 01:13 AM	#6
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Excellent answer by Dfariswheel. Here are a few photos. The top two guns are Police Positive Specials. The little gun at the bottom is a 32 caliber Police Positive. Barrel markings on the two Police Positive Specials. Sorry, I don't have a 38 Police Positive chambered for the shorter 38 S&W cartridge for comparison, but the cylinder will be shorter.

June 24, 2015, 12:56 AM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, the term "positive" comes from Colt's hammer block safety, which they installed beginning about 1909 and of which they were justifiably proud. They called it a "positive safety" because, unlike the S&W hammer block of the period, it was mechanically operated, and did not depend on a spring for proper functioning. Jim

June 24, 2015, 02:46 AM	#10
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I didn't realize the positive and positive special varied so much in size. I had a 38 positive and it was the best feeling revolver I have ever sot. Great grip size, balance, trigger, etc. I just hated hunting for the 38 SW ammo. I plan to get another in 22lr.

June 24, 2015, 01:38 PM	#12
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Any thoughts of getting a 38 special positive special just went out the window.

June 24, 2015, 03:04 PM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	"Any thoughts of getting a 38 special positive special just went out the window." Huh? Why? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 24, 2015, 08:46 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There were two Colt series that had the word "positive" given to them, the Police Positive, which is what this thread is about, and the Pocket Positive, which is a quite small gun, smaller than the S&W J-frame. The latter was essentially the New Pocket with the positive safety and was made only in .32 caliber. The later small .38's (Detective Special, Cobra) were made on the same frame as the Police Positive. Jim

June 24, 2015, 10:45 PM	#15
Mike Weber Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2002 Location: Northern California Posts: 238	I have a 1929 vintage Colt Police Positive Special in .38 Special with 6 barrel. Mine isn't as pretty as the one in Driftwood's picture, but still makes occasional trips to the range. I'm used to shooting much larger heavier revolvers and the old Colt feels like a toy gun in my hand. __________________ M. Weber "Molon labe" http://shootersfreehold.com/ A place for firearms enthusiasts to congregate.

June 24, 2015, 11:21 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Of course Colt made the heavier Officers Model (it went by other names as well) and the large New Service for cartridges like the .45 Colt. But it was the PPS that went into the holsters of at least half the police in the U.S. in the period from c. 1910 to the 1980's. The other half carried the S&W M&P, now the Model 10. The division was, to a large extent, geographical. Police in the northeast, midwest and far west tended toward Colts; officers in the south and south central part of the country seemed to like S&W. The preference was so marked that the Mason-Dixon line was often called the "Smith & Wesson Line", although Maryland police stuck with Colts. Jim

June 26, 2015, 11:02 PM	#17
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I liked the size of the Police positive. Not interested in the larger special. 22lr positive is waht I really want anyways. Just have to find one in person or convince myself to buy one off an auction site. Given the expense of fixing Colts with even minor problems I have shied away from the latter option.