Casting Virgin

[histed]

I've never posted in this forum and, until now, the only thing I've ever cast was about 100 roundballs for my flintlock. This year for Christmas my two adult daughters decided that if Dad likes to shoot and reload, maybe he'd like to make his own bullets, too. Therefore, I am now the proud owner of a Lyman casting manual, a TL358-158SWC and a 356-125 2R Lee mold, and a Lee bottom pour 10lb furnace. Last week one of the guys I work with said he had a 5 gallon bucket of wheel weight he wanted rid of, so I jumped on that too.

Having never done this, I have a lot of questions even though I am reading Lyman for the second time. I have about 15 pounds of pure soft lead that I kept for muzzleloading and I have several spools of 95/5 solder. Can I mix these in any ratio to get shootable SWC that wont lead (much)? Should I shoot the softer stuff with the 148 wadcutter mold I just ordered? Are WW about the right BHN for hunting boolits? I have read that 148WC and a small charge of Bullseye work well in the 38 Special - can I use the same load in a
.357 case?

I'm not new to reloading, but I am new to cast boolets. Most of my experience has been with Berry's and other plated bullets or the jacketed stuff, though I have shot some commercial cast boolets - Missouri and the like. Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

[Vance]

You can mix the various leads to get the alloy you want. Don't know the ratios though as I haven't done it. I always just cast with range reclaim lead and wheel weights mixed together randomly.

The 148 grain wad cutter will shoot out of a .357 mag case just fine. I know a couple of guys are shooting 124 grain bullets out of their 357 magnums and having a ball with them.

[kostner]

Have been casting for a few years and enjoy it as much as reloading. Looks like you are off to a good start. Lee bottom pour is the one I have and it works great. Also have about a dozen Lee molds from 380 to 3006 some are Gas Checks that allows you push you bullets faster than 1100 fps without leading your barrel. The rifle bullets need to be pushed faster in order operate the gas system
You can shoot 7.62x39 all day without blocking the gas port but don't try that with an AR. Here is a site dedicated to your new hobby.http://castboolits.gunloads.com
Welcome to the club.

[histed]

thanks for the link, kostner. just joined that forum too - gotta lot of reading and researching to do, but I'm lovin' it

[Ifishsum]

For lower-velocity rounds like .45 colt, .45ACP and .38 special I often blend WW alloy with something a little softer (usually reclaimed range lead) at a ratio of about 3:1. It's not a necessity, straight WW works but I just like them just a little softer if I plan to shoot them below 900FPS or so. For midrange .357 loads I use straight WW.

You probably already know this, but you don't want to add wheel weights directly to the bottom pour pot. Smelt and flux it well first, so you're adding clean ingots to the production pot - because it will quickly become a drippy mess with dirty alloy in there.

[histed]

Ifish - thanks anyway. I have read this and I intend to use an old cast iron plumbers pot to melt and flux the original mix. I also have a fairly large piece of bees wax that should work well as a flux. Might try tea candles - saw that in several posts.

[chris in va]

The lee 358-125-2r mold is really good. You may find it drops at 362 like mine did, so slug your barrel bore first before you get a sizing die. Try to get it .002 over bore size for best fit.

You can shoot 7.62x39 all day without blocking the gas port

It leaded my gas piston something fierce and locked up the action on my AK. And yes they were gas checked.

[Mike / Tx]

I have about 15 pounds of pure soft lead that I kept for muzzleloading and I have several spools of 95/5 solder. Can I mix these in any ratio to get shootable SWC that wont lead (much)? Should I shoot the softer stuff with the 148 wadcutter mold I just ordered? I usually use straight WW or a blend of pure and WW of about 1-2 Pure to WW for casting solid SWC's. The softer ones I shoot below 1000fps such as in your 38's, and the harder in the .357Are WW about the right BHN for hunting boolits? They should possibly work find depending on what type of hunting your referring to. One of the RNFP's would possibly work a bit better for the bigger stuff. I have read that 148WC and a small charge of Bullseye work well in the 38 Special - can I use the same load in a .357 case?You will find through a bit of digging through a few load manuals that the recipe's for the WC's in .357 usually use a touch slower powder and a bit more of it. There are a few that are close and use the same powders but usually not the same amounts.

I also have a fairly large piece of bees wax that should work well as a flux. Might try tea candles - saw that in several posts.

What I have found is that the paraffin works good in my Lee pot in small portions such as a pea sized or similar ball. In my smelting pot I use sawdust to flux with at least twice and then just before I pour my ingots I will drop in a small chunk of paraffin. What you going to find with the paraffin is a little smoke, then whoof a 8-10" fire ball right up out of the pot. This is normal and it will still cause you to jump so don't have your stirring spoon in the lead or you will possibly slosh some lead out when you do.

One other thing on your Lee pot. If you have read around you will notice that a ton of folks refer to it as a drip o matic. Well you can with just a little time make it so it doesn't drip at all or so that it hardly drips. I used some Clover Valve Lapping Compound and lapped the stem into the seat on mine. When I started it only had a tiny ring where it touched when it seated. When I finished I had a good 3/16 or so of seating area. The only time mine drips now is after close to 12 or 15 sessions without me draining it down and cleaning it out. If you use or empty all the lead out and give it a good wiping out or scrubbing with some scouring pad type stuff every couple of pours it will go a LONG time before it will start to drip.

One last thing, there are mixed feelings about how to treat the Lee molds. Some smoke them some don't. I have done it both ways and still gotten great results. With either way they usually take about three good heat ups and cool downs to get the oils out of the pores. I would recommend just giving them a good scrubbing with some Comet and a tooth brush first. Then rinse them off with some brake cleaner and one more Comet scrub with the water as hot as you can stand it. Allow it to soak up all the heat it can form the water and it will dry in about 5 minutes. Put it all together and lube the sprue plate and cast some with it. You might find it pours cruddy at first but this is usually due to it being cold. Once it gets up to temp they should start dropping just fine. If not just set it down and allow to cool off then scrub it again.

Some of mine take this two or three times before they get all the cutting oil out, but when they do they will throw great bullet with no smoking at all. If you DO decide to smoke the cavities use a butane lighter and only do it ever so lightly. Remember any soot build up you put in there will effectively be showing up on the bullets you pour so you don't want it black. I do have a couple that have been smoked and I only have enough that they look greyish and not blackened.

Hope this helps

[armoredman]

Need a harder alloy for 7.62x39mm than wheel weight. Certified bullet metal in the #2 alloy seems to work OK in my rifles for no leading at moderate velocities. I use the NOE 129grain and Lee 160 grain molds for 7.62x39mm.
Welcome to the world of casting! Get thee some safety equipment, leather apron, goggles, kevlar arm guards, leather gloves that you can work the fingers in, and where to dump fresh cast - towel or water? I towel drop with no issues.

[histed]

Chris - never slugged a barrel before now. Looks and sounds easy to do and I can get 36cal BP revolver round balls. What sizer do you use? I'm looking at the Lee - its less expensive and they seem to get good reviews.

Mike - thanks a bunch. I know I didn't smoke my round ball mould, but that was just about once a year for maybe 150-200 for practice and hunting. The sawdust will catch fire, a presume. I have a friend who teaches woodshop at the local high school, so that's a free source. You said to lube the hinge and I read the Alox is recommended for that. I have none yet, but wonder ifthe beeswax will work?

Armored - a BIG 10-4 on the safety gear! I've done enough plumbing and soldering to know that hot lead is nothing to trifle with, nor do a want a visit from the tinsel fairy to end badly. And thanks for the welcome - I can see this being fun and relaxing but... I'm already looking a other moulds and more calibers. Thank God my better half understands that my addiction can't be cured, only indulged.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Only suggestion I have. Go to a good drug store and buy a jar of Boric Acid Crystals. Not powder. Crystals. Then find a old used or unused salt shaker to lightly sprinkle Boric Acid crystals with. Over your melted & fluxed leads surface. {immediately done after its fluxing> is the best time to sprinkle.} Once sprinkled don't break the dross materials surface tension while pouring your mold/molds. Set your sprue cuts and junk bullets off to the side until you've either emptied the pot or are no longer casting. At that point you can do what you want with those left over sprue cuts and junk bullets.

[histed]

SureShot - OK, but why? Is this to keep dross at the surface while casting from the bottom?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

As you probably know. Occasionally a caster involved in a long cast session may have to repeat the fluxing technique. As he may notice his dross has separated from it tin. {tin seen floating in clumps on top of its dross material is a tell-tail sign of dross/tin separation} Two major things tin does. First and foremost: Tin helps the dross material's blend together.
Secondly: it helps fill a poured mold out more completely if its mixed into its dross well. (fluxed)

Why its needed: Boric Acid lightly sprinkled across the surface of a newly fluxed dross. Left undisturbed will help keep the dross from separating out its tin. And eliminates that occasional additional re-flux job. Often required in those long casting session's.

Those who choose to dip their material out of their furnace. Boric Acid offers nothing. Those who have a bottom pour furnace Boric Acid is a benefit in their casting.

[histed]

AHHH. Thanks for the explaination - I didn't know

[snuffy]

Histed; Did you read this?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346199

It's a sticky because a lot of your questions are answered in it.

As you probably know. Occasionally a caster involved in a long cast session may have to repeat the fluxing technique. As he may notice his dross has separated from it tin. {tin seen floating in clumps on top of its dross material is a tell-tail sign of dross/tin separation} Two major things tin does. First and foremost: Tin helps the dross material's blend together.
Secondly: it helps fill a poured mold out more completely if its mixed into its dross well. (fluxed)

Why its needed: Boric Acid lightly sprinkled across the surface of a newly fluxed dross. Left undisturbed will help keep the dross from separating out its tin. And eliminates that occasional additional re-flux job. Often required in those long casting session's.

Those who choose to dip their material out of their furnace. Boric Acid offers nothing. Those who have a bottom pour furnace Boric Acid is a benefit in their casting.

It's a long held myth that tin and antimony "separate" from lead when in a molten state. False! Lead/tin/antimony alloy is a solution, just like salt in water. Salt does not rise to the surface when it's dissolved in water.

After fluxing you should skim the dross off the surface of the melt. That should leave a VERY shiny surface. Contact with the air will result in oxides of the elements in your molten alloy. Tin oxidizes easiest, or more quickly than either lead or antimony. The higher the temperature, the quicker the tin will oxidize out. That's where the misconception comes from that tin "floats" to the surface of the melted lead.

Frequent fluxing, done whenever/after the surface is agitated, will keep the tin in solution. A covering like a layer of sawdust ash will insulate the lead and keep the air from contact.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Anyway histed. Consider buying a jar of Boric Acid crystals. (its not at all expensive to purchase) One thing about the use of boric acid crystals. It has no smell when used nor will catch fire. Just an old school trick that works good. BTW Histed: I bought my one and only Lyman 20 furnace when they sold new in the box for the MSRP> $53.00. And its still being use yet.

[histed]

Snuffy - I did not, but I will. Thanks for the direction.
Sure Shot, I hope I get the service from mine that you have.
The more I read, both here and on CB forum, the more excited I get to get going. However, I realize I need to slow down a bit and read that sticky, finish the book from CB then go through Lyman again. Does sound like I may never have to buy pistol/revolver bullets again. Thanks to all of you

[Mike / Tx]

WHen you get through reading through those two take a gander here and you will find some more great info,
http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm

Also you can download "From Ingot To Target" in PDF as well as most of the others. They are great printed out and put in a three ring binder to keep handy out by the loading/casting area.

[histed]

Thanks, Mike. Just downloaded "From Ingot To Target" from CB yesterday, printed today before reading this. Much thanks for the other link also. Hope to smelt some of my ww next week, but I need to work outside and the weather doesn't look so great.

[A pause for the COZ]

In my opinion, there are two very distinct procedures and methods to load cast boolits in pistols and especially rifles. 1st is the easiest to master and likely to give satisfactory results immediately. The 2nd is used to tweek out the best performance and accuracy out of any particular fire arm/ projectile combo.

As a new caster I recommend every one master the easy side of the scale 1st.

Use a softer alloy, ww, scrap lead what ever you have on hand.
Keep velocities moderate. Rifle shoot for 1500-1700 fps Pistols 700-800 fps.
Soft lube NRA Formula is great and Alox also works.
Size .310 for 30 cal, .312 for 7.62x39, Try to get .002 over groove size.

Of all those factors I have noted the most important is velocity. All of my rifle loads give the best performance at just about exactly the same velocity.
My 30 cal loads dont care much if they are sized to .309 or .310.
But miss the velocity window and your groups open like the red sea.
Does not seem to matter much what powder I use as long as it is in the same burn range. They do make a difference but I can usually get a usable load out of any of them as long as I stay in the velocity window.
For rifle I always use gas checks. Your likely to get better results faster with gas checks.

Master that 1st Grass Hopper. Then start to learn how to zip a super hard 24bn, Hard lubed, sized perfect laser hair splitter out to 500 yards at 2200 fps.

[histed]

AHHH, Master - Grasshopper hear you And, joking aside, I do. Walk before you run. I'm not really interested in long range hair-splitting at this point, though once I feel comfortable with this process I would like to try hunting with cast, as I've heard good things from those who do. Do you buy gas checks or make your own?

[A pause for the COZ]

Right now I am buying them. You can pick up a small supply from Ebay to get you going. There is a guy on Cast Boolits that sells them at Group buy prices.
Cant access that site from work so I cant get you link right now.
Funny how companies choose to block or not block sites.

Not going to complain though, Instead of fixing it for me they would just block more. Soooo shhhhhhhhhh, I was not here...

[histed]

Never saw you