someone came into my yard

[Lancel]

Doubletaptap said:

If that don't stop them shoot them and...

Even a CSI named Barney Fife could figure that crime scene out. The tactic is not just illegal; it's a little plan for a lotta jail.


Larry

[Doug.38PR]

doesn't Texas have a law that says you can use deadly force to defend property after sundown? Someone stealing a dog and breaking into a shed would surely qualify

Yes

§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

and

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection
of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he
uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

This afterdark language is very similar to the Biblical passage in Exodus 22:2(probably where they got it back in 1973)

2 If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed

This Texas law is better than most states but still is a modern Pharisaicle perversion of the intent of this original law. It used to be that you could legally shoot someone for trespess and theft of your property to protect it from being stolenor vandalized. The language of the original law that the Texas law resembles is to say that during the night you can't see if a person is armed or not or if they have murderous intentions or not so it makes sense to just go up upon them and shoot them or ambush them to protect you and yours. During the daylight hours, you can better tell and see where their hands are what their "tactical abilities are" and call upon them to identify themselves and hold them at bay rather than just approaching them and firing. In other words, it is not necessary to just go blow someone away when when you can clearly see that you can control the situation without bloodshed. Also, someone coming onto your property unannounced is at night is almost certainly not going to be there on legitimate business than someone in the day.
NOW, the this is not to say, obviously, that you have to just let them take off with your car, horse, gold etc. if it is past 7:00 am in the morning (too bad ). The law clearly allows you to use deadly force to protect your property. It's not a game. You're supposed to follow the intent of the law, not the letter of the law and twist it into something it is not (which is what the Pharisees of Christ's time were notorious for and what politicans of our day do now.)
You're supposed to be able to protect your life and property and bring the criminal to justice if you can (or let the police catch up with them), not take vengence for his attempt on you or your property (known as excessive force.)
Why should you be able to use deadly force to protect property? It's just property? This is the question most modern people ask. They see old allowances for protecting property as being hard on criminals (typically of post 1960s and 50s thinking. Consider the criminal more than the victim)
The reason for this kind of thinking is because we have been so indoctrinated with socialistic thinking (what's mine is yours and yours is mine. Everything belongs to everyone. It's society's fault he had to steal, we at some level are the real criminals. et al) That we don't take crimes against property very serious. You see this with the modern statement "he must pay his debt to society" No he doesn't, he must pay his debt to the man he stole from or vandalized.
One of the things that makes Western Christian Civilization unique in history is it's recognition of property rights. Modern thinking considers this selfishness as a result of evil capitalistic pigs. Property in fact is really a product of the fruit of your labor. It is an extension of yourself in a sense. This is why we have laws against say cutting corners to avoid stop lights. Because in cutting through someone else's private lot you are showing disrespect to someone elses private property by treating their land as your free accessway. Property is something that you have devouted a portion of your life into developing or using to sustain yourself, your family and your community. A car for example is an expensive tool that you utilize for transportation and recreation. It is something that you have put a lot of money that you took a lot of time and worked hard for. Land is something you took time, toil and sweat to work and produce form and build on. A man who would take this from you or vandalize it is assulting your life. He is robbing you of a portion of your life. That is why you feel violated when you walk into the house and find you have been robbed or walk out into the parking lot to find your space minus a car and shattered glass next to it. This person has no regard for your life or property. If the theft can be prevented without killing the man or the property can be recovered without killing then he has not done you life threatening harm. But obviously they shouldn't be allowed to steal and vanalize with impunity while you wait for the police to get there and hope they can get it back or hope the insurance company will pay for it. That is absurd.

NOW, having said that. Sadly, what I said above and what modern courts would say are two completely different things. Like Capt. Charlie said, you would very likely be charged with all sorts of crimes if you attempted to stop the robbery from taking place and especially if you tried to cover it up. Texas has a wider birth for such things than other states, but even Texas courts look down on eeeevil property owners who shoot to protect their property. There is the possiblity of jury nullification, but given the ignorance of most modern people on the subject and the fact that many modern courts try to cover it up, the possiblity is slim. In short, you have just as much to fear from the "law" as you do from the criminals the "law protects." Courts have made the Law into a twisted game between themselves instead of a instrument of truth and justice.

For myself, I would be very careful. I wouldn't say "just let them go" but at the same time, I don't think I would be so quick to wave bye bye at a man who was hot wiring my truck. That is just wrong.

In the original posters situation, anytime I go outside to investigate a strange noise or an unexplained activation of the motion detected lights, I go with a gun and am very careful. Best kind of defense is a good offense.

[razorburn]

Originally Posted by coolhandluke

pitbulls are not good guard dogs. i love the breed that is why i got it. my male died of old age, so i had to replace him.

but now i am looking into getting a guard dog, any suggestions?

i am going to look into the motion dectors that you guys have mention

thanks for the help.

my family and I were at a family reunion(spelling) when they took her.

No other dog men here? As you found, most pits are poor guard dogs. The true pits were bred for the dog fights and honed animal aggression, not human aggression. That was typically seen as a fatal flaw for the dog handlers had to work closely with the dogs during the fights, and a dog which wildly attacks it's handler in the heat of a fight is not acceptable. These dogs that showed human aggression were usually killed so these traits were not passed on. Unfortunately, nowadays with the exploding popularity of pits many have been churned out by breeders looking for quick profit and no regard for the quality of the dogs bloodline, creating unpredictable animals. I had a wonderful Tosa Inu, another of the fighting breeds, and he was nothing but grace and friendliness.

Look into one of the working breeds. The Fila Brasileiro is a very good guard dog, but also quite large and extremely wary of strangers. If you have a smaller place or often have people coming and going, it may not be a great choice. Bull Mastiffs are another solid choice, originally used by english game wardens to ward off poachers.

[stephen426]

Originally Posted by chrisandclaudia2

to solve the issue i hammered re-bar into the ground on each side of the yard and stretched wire across between them. i put the wire about 6 inches above the ground. it was just above the grass but you couldn't see it.

i then waited. the next time they came thru i waited till they got far enough in they had to run to the fence. i jumped out behind them and yelled things about killing and cutting guts out etc.

they too off running to the fence. they all tripped at least 4 times hitting the ground hard each time. they never came back again. i laughed for hours.

chrisandclaudia2,

I hate to break it to you, but setting up booby traps such as trip wires could get you sued, even if those injured are trespassing and have no right to be on your property. Combine that with your verbal threats and you could face some serious charges. Imagine if one of hose kids had tripped and gotten himself impaled on the rebar. The law does not always make sense, but I can tell you that bobby traps are illegal, even for crimes as breaking and entering.

There is a case of a man from New York whose business had been broken into several times through the skylight. The business owner had enough of it and electrified the grate. When someone attempted to burglurize him yet again through the skylight, he was electrocuted and died. The business owner was charged with some crime (I think it was man slaughter) and imprisoned. Funny law isn't it?

[Doug.38PR]

So I guess landmines are out

[coolridelude]

Doug.38PR,

thanks for all that info.


well i just got back from florida. my friend gave my his pitbull. it is the brother of my stolen pitbull. he cannot take it with him. so now i have it. our gates have been closed and i will be getting a light for the backyard.

springermom,

pitbulls are good dogs that protect the family. my old one did. he just never protected the yard. my pitbull that died he did protect us. if another dog was coming near us he would get infront of us and push us back. he did not like barking. couple years ago my pitbull(old one) bit someone at night for getting into our backyard. he did not bark at him, when the bd came close to the door he bit him.

[skipjack]

This happened about 3 miles from my home:

http://wjz.com/topstories/local_story_020161449.html

I had a rottie,they are very good protective dogs. German shepherds are also a good breed to protect a family, as are dobermans. If you get one of those breeds, check and make sure that your homeowner's insurance doesn't exclude coverage in the event of a dogbite. I am an insurance agent for a large company,and the company started to list certain breeds that they will not pay in the event of a dogbite.

I second what Stephen said about setting a booby trap. You are just asking for trouble, even if the person hurt is attempting to rob your home. Ample lighting, good locks on the doors and a watchdog are usually enough to keep the two legged predators at bay. An ultrasonic alarm or monitored alarm is
also excellent, and gives you a homeowner's insurance discount!

Glad you weren't hurt, and it all turned out ok.

[Bigfatts]

As far as a guard dog goes, I have a Boxer who is approximately 90 lbs. While she is the sweetest dog I have ever seen, she is also quite protective of both her people and yard. If someone were to attept to steal her, she would be sure to get her pound of flesh.

Something that might also work are one of those dummy video cameras, they look real. Even have the little red light that lights up.

[Doubletaptap]

Fellas I was kidding on the "shoot em' and drag em' inside bit. I am guilty of writing without thinking on that one. My apologies and it won't happen again.
I do know the laws and (not happy with them regarding protection of home and property) but do abide.

On another note, what about the shotgun shooting over the heads? Providing there were no neighbors or anyone to get hurt?
Me and some friends have been dusted with rock salt just recently for fishing in the wrong spot.( we honestly didn't know and there's no signs or fence) Is that illegal to shoot over heads or rock salt somebody?
It still happens, believe me!!!

[coolridelude]

i think they should put up signs.

i put up signs so no one goes hunting and stuff. and i marked the property with purple paint. now if someone comes into the property. i just call the cops.

Where can you get rocksalt?

Doubletaptap, stay out of trouble

[JJB2]

i guess here in iowa if someone goes into your garage and steals your car or what ever all you can do is stand there and watch em....... then call the cops with a description of your suspect.... i heard of a guy who stole a car from a dealership here in town a few years ago and all he was charged with was driving the car without permission.... i'm always going through backyards here in town... everyone just kinda knows me and they are not alarmed at all..... in a small town things are different than the city... we are kinda like family and watch out for each other.. most people have known me for 30+ years so it'd be kinda hard to pull too much off........ if i wanted to... i do keep a sawed off pool cue and an axe handle for emergencies out side the house though... and a .357 stuffed with jsps for trouble inside the the house........................


LIFE IS SHORT................

[john in jax]

Please be carefull and try to determine WHY someone is on your property before you do something rash.

A few months ago I woke up to someone talking and walking around outside my window. Turns out a young kid in the neighborhood was missing and some neighbors were out beating the bushes, checking cars etc.... I joined in the search, we were loud (calling out his name) and obvious (shining mag lights all around), but we were checking bushes around houses and peeking into/under vehicles. It was after midnight and very few people acknowledged our presence, but I was worried about some half-awake guy storming out of his door with a gun - - thankfully that didn't happen. We found the kid hiding under a car not far from home, he had missed his curfew (again), knew he was in BIG trouble, so he was afraid to go home.

Just a few days ago I saw a guy jump the concrete block wall into our backyard - - peeking out a window I saw a neighbor frantically trying to catch his dog which had slipped his collar.

Just please be carefull

[Dreadnought]

Originally Posted by Doubletaptap

On another note, what about the shotgun shooting over the heads? Providing there were no neighbors or anyone to get hurt?
Me and some friends have been dusted with rock salt just recently for fishing in the wrong spot.( we honestly didn't know and there's no signs or fence) Is that illegal to shoot over heads or rock salt somebody?

yes.

[glock21pwr]

I have signs up around my land saying "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." that seems to make thieves think twice (I have video cameras near each sign) I also have pressure plares attached to lights which once scared the crap out of a guy. I was up and came out with my shotgun. All I saw was his back. he was out of sight in about twelve seconds.

[Musketeer]

She said there were a couple of kids climbing in the treehouse out back. No I didn't grab the SIG or the Bersa. I did go out there and said "how about you two get out of here now." I compelled compliance with the least amount of force necessary.

I did think about grabbing my pellet pistol and go out there like a raving mad man. Of course I followed better judgement and decided not to amuse my self by scaring the crap out of a couple of 10 year olds!

Just go out there like you were planning to do... with your chainsaw You were planning on taking down that tree, right? I am certain they would have come down right quick Seriously, you handled it well with only as much force as was needed.

Guard dogs...

Right now we have a 2 year old Rhodesian Ridgeback named Colt. I figure if they were good enough to defend farmer's livestock and children from lions they are good enough for me. Colt is an great guard dog though and has been from a young age. He has bonded to the family and is very territorial. If you hear him barking at night it is because something is there, no ifs ands or buts. It may only be teenagers out in the street but they know he is there and we know they are there. Let him out into the yard and he hits that stockade fence like a freight train. I actually put up a new one because the old one just didn't look sturdy enough to stop him. He is also great with my little girl (4 years old). He hates the water but when she fell on her rear end in the kiddie pool he thought she was in trouble. The dog jumped in the pool, grabbed her gently by the arm, and pulled her out. He didn't even leave a mark on her arm. Everyone who I know who has one has had a similar opinion of their gaurd dog behaviour. Finally, at 110 pounds he is impressive enough to scare any casual criminal.

[Musketeer]

On another note, what about the shotgun shooting over the heads? Providing there were no neighbors or anyone to get hurt?
Me and some friends have been dusted with rock salt just recently for fishing in the wrong spot.( we honestly didn't know and there's no signs or fence) Is that illegal to shoot over heads or rock salt somebody?
It still happens, believe me!!!

Certainly you can do it, just be preparred to be charged and convicted with "Assault with a Deadly Weapon." The moron who took the shot at you with rock salt should be told that he is likely to go to prison for a very long time in this day and age for such behaviour. My buddy's dad got pepperred with both barrels across his rear end while going over a fence with two watermellons in his youth 60 years ago. That would no longer fly today.

[Musketeer]

I have signs up around my land saying "Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again."

Very bad thing to do. Say you do kill an intruder... what exactly do you think the local prosecutor is going to infer from the multiple bullet wounds in the corpse and your sign? You have just given him cause to suspect you continued to use deadly force after it was no longer needed.

If you kill an intruder AFTER he has given up and is no threat then you are, in the eyes of the law, guilty of murder. You must have the same justification for the last shot as for the first and that stupid sign can be used against you very easily.

Perhaps you also have a bookshelf full of books like "Man Traps, a Beginner's Guide," "How to Kill," "Evidence Tamperring, A Practical Approach." I am certain those will come up in the investigation as well...

[James K]

There is a story about an old guy who lived alone out in the country. Someone asked him if he had a dog. He said he didn't, and was then asked if anyone bothered him. He replied, "Not since I got that", pointing at the porch floor where there was a huge dog dish marked "Killer."

Jim

[wolfy692005]

i was thinking about the fishing line close to the ground... might trip em up... might even tye it through the loack hole alone with the lock, they get the lock off and then cant get the door open right away..
if you can get the motion lights or whatever to awaken you, by the time you get up and dont disturb the BG call the cops right away, they might get there before he leaves..
just a thought..
the real deal here is not only to deter the BG but to keep him from hurting your or anyone around you..

[revjen45]

We had a black Lab who was a wonderful watchdog. People who came to the house while we were gone said Dyldeaux sounded positively crazy, even with people she knew. We left her at a friend's house one evening while we went to dinner. When we returned we unlocked the door without speaking, so she didn't know it was us. Looking thru the window all we saw was teeth accompanied by psychotic sounding dog noises. When she wasn't on the clock she was totally sweet natured. Our cat was her best buddy. Any breed can be a good watchdog. I want the dog to let me know someone is there, and I can decide if the situation requires action.

[swampdog]

I'll second the lab, revjen45. My chocolate is VERY protective. She weighs around 80lbs and definitely acts as a deterrent. She doesn't invoke the "horror" of a pit, rott or german shepard, until she "bows" up. Then, she's pretty impressive.

Things are crazy these days. It doesn't make sense when the criminals rights count for more than the victims, but that's the way it seems. In NC, you have to have exhausted all possibilities of escape before resorting to deadly force. Don't even think about using deadly force to protect property, no matter what time it is. It is even against the law to hold a trespasser at gunpoint until the law arrives. Doesn't make much sense. They do invoke stiffer penalties for after midnight burglary. I guess that's supposed to make up for it.

coolridelude,
Try keeping your dog in the shed at night. That might solve both your problems. A simple switch from the shed door to a floodlight and boom box might also have interesting results.

[Socrates]

First off, general information, from different states, do not apply to Texas. I promise you in Kali, everything is illegal.
Check your local laws.

This guy is NOT COMMITTING ROBBERY. In most states, robbery requires the use of a weapon, and puts people at risk of immienent bodily injury. Different states have different definitions of crimes.

From a historical perspective, the crimes in the Texas statute, except for criminal mischief, are the ones often inumerated in Felony-Murder statutes. In other words, if you are in the act of one of these felonies, and a murder occurs, you are tried for first degree murder, instead of second. Means the intent is made automatic, thanks to the act you were engaged in. Most states include rape, as well. Looks like Texas is telling you that if the person is threatening your life, you have the right, on your property, to defend yourself.

Our laws, in general, have always put people over property, except for the Napoleonic code origin of Louisiana's laws. There, you have the right to shoot anyone on your property, period. Very clear cut, and no excuses.

I'd look at you climate, and go with a short haired guard dog if it's hot. Rotts are fantastic. Have the dog attack trained, and, combined with it's protective nature, they will keep people off your property. I'd also put up "Beware of Dog" signs, and "Private Property".

My other love is Great Pyrennes Mountain Dogs. Family dogs, and, often 30 inches or more at the shoulder, heads about the size of a small bear, and a very long coat that protects them from bear claws. They kill bears by biting them on the throat, and ripping their guts out with their back legs. They are incredibly strong, bit as hard as ANY dog, 2400 psi, and make lots of noise.
Oh, they weigh between 120-150 pounds, and have excellent hips, as a general rule, and fantastic tempers.
Great for cold weather.

In the short term, I'd use some of the suggestions here, and use the electronic stuff to try and keep him off your property, and, I'd keep the second pitbull inside. Sounds like that's what the guy was after.
Sorry about the dog. I tend to put dogs, and cats, over most people, but, I'm a bit weird in that respect.

S

[coolridelude]

last night i put the dog in the shed. i was out with friends playing pool. about 11:00pm i recieved a call from home. someone tried to get in the shed. they got a big suprise. went i got home, the dog had the guy's shoe. my mom had called the cops. i found a box in the shed that i don't remember putting them i turned it over to the proper autoritys(spelling).

my APBT sleeps on the porch with my little dog. right by the door. the APBT that was given to me is a male and his weight is 40lbs.

i am getting a light installed to light up the whole backyard.

[bennnn]

If that don't stop them shoot them and drag them inside the shed, then go outside and jimmy the door open so it looks like a B&E!! Make sure to wipe your prints off the jimmy and put it in their hand!

Hats off to Capt. Charlie... This is the internet,, anyone can read and believe everything they read,, not always the writers fault... But some crap about setting up a mock crime scene??? hope you never do it after that post man,, some cop somewhere will find it.........The law is the law is the LAW... Even in my bedroom, wife in the closet,, dogs already biting the dumdass,,,warned to leave and me threatened with deadly force,,,,I'll just put one in the stupes knee, shoulder if necessary, and wait for the LAW to get there,, no hurry or worry bro's.. Accuracey is what counts,,being prepared and competent will keep you free and safe,,, not your fantasies or imagination.
Hi guys, My name is Ben.

[thebaldguy]

I've had a few drunk college students taking a leak in my backyard near the alley. They're pretty much harmless, but I like to sneak out the door with a big Maglite and light 'em up with a yell to leave. Stage fright happens pretty quick and they stop. They find somewhere else to go.

I would call 911 if I saw someone breaking into my detached garage. I don't know if I would go outside and confront them. Even armed, who knows what kind of nutjob is out there. It could get very dangerous very quickly. I don't know if anything in my garage is worth this kind of danger. In this state, you can never use deadly force to protect property. All you can do is call 911 and observe. Do I think it should be legal to use deadly force to protect your property? Yes I do. Will I use deadly force to protect my property? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the situation. The safety of you and your loved ones comes first. I wouldn't put my life in danger unless I had to.