Police at the door... Real or not?

Mokumbear · November 7, 2010, 04:47 AM

Very strange situation happened in my county and I am very interested in how it plays out.

Let me give you the newspaper article's link rather than try to explain:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/cr...t-1024784.html

Now...

"There's two sides to every pancake, no matter how thin".
I only have the same facts you do.

My county is not "Mayberry". We have 100's of Sheriff's deputies.
Do you think it was proper for one of the arresting party to be the same deputy that was involved in the earlier road rage episode? OK, I can see how he could help ID the guy, buy they must have had his photo from his DL. I think there is too much of a chance that this could turn into a "vendetta", not an arrest.

What would you do if people came to your home and instead of
knocking on the door, called you on the phone and represented themselves as police? (What do you do if they knocked on your door, for that matter?)
Should he have immediately called 911 and remain armed, inside his house and not open the door rather than confront them with an AK?

Is four shots from one deputy overkill/panic?
Even with a suspect with an AK, should he have fired? (We don't know if the gun was leveled at the deputy). Even with an AK, if it was pointed at a deputy, should it have been two shots and reassess? Should the deputies have retreated and waited for SWAT to arrive? Perhaps the sight of so many combat armed deputies would have made it clear these were really the police?

What do I think? Given what we know from the article, I think mistakes may have been made on both sides. Thank goodness no trick or treating kids or
anyone else was hurt.

MLeake · November 7, 2010, 05:00 AM

... the lawyer called the sheriff's dept, to verify whether an actual deputy was handling a case involving his client, and the sheriff's dept told him there was no such case.

So, it's reasonable for the suspect to have been suspicious.

Where the suspect screwed up was in coming out of his home with a weapon. Should have bunkered up, and called 911 and then his lawyer.

I suspect the detective will have some interesting conversations with his supervisors. It will be interesting to see what the prosecutor's office does.

skifast · November 7, 2010, 07:45 AM

The citizen was wrong for going outside with a rifle. He is lucky that these cops can't shoot.

The cop was out of line for his actions. First, there is no reason for the arrest. It was a traffic offense. If a ticket was to be issued, it should have been when the offense occurred. Hiding in the bushes cannot be SOP.

Wag · November 7, 2010, 07:50 AM

Subscribed. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

Citizen should have called 911, then waited armed inside.

Cop needs to get the arrogant chip off his shoulder before he or his family or a fellow officer gets hurt.

--Wag--

Mokumbear · November 7, 2010, 08:03 AM

Skifast:

Allegedly, the deputy didn't ticket the driver at the scene because he
was off duty and with his family.

I think one issue was the deputy brought the "on duty" attitude with him when he was off duty. If someone is driving aggressively, the best thing is to NOT get into a confrontation and separate yourself with distance.

You are absolutely right, if this was just a traffic offense, wouldn't it have been better to just mail the ticket (if allowed by the department) or just let it go if they didn't?

I think you are all right that the citizen should never have left his house armed.
It escalated the situation, would have put himself in jeopardy if they were not real cops and almost got himself killed as is.

Even though we are a "Castle Doctrine" state, I remember one case
failing because the guy came out of his house and shot someone.
You have no duty to retreat but no sanction to advance, either.

JBial · November 7, 2010, 08:32 AM

Sounds to me like Arajuo needs to be suspended or fired. Where in that road rage incident does it warrant him coming back later on to arrest him? For being an *******? If that's the case a lot of jails would be filled with bad drivers. If the detective was so worried about his or anyone elses safety, why didn't he call it in when it first happened and have a marked car issue a warning or ticket. You've got some top notch LEOs in palm beach.

Hook686 · November 7, 2010, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Araujo wrote in the report that he was off duty on Sunday evening with his family, in his unmarked cruiser,....

Is it common practice for police to use their cruisers, marked, or unmarked, as family transportation ? I would not have assumed this was a cop confronting me.

pax · November 7, 2010, 11:25 AM

Closed.

The tactical answer for the citizen is clear: stay inside, call for confirmation if you're doubtful. Nothing else to discuss there.

The tactics chosen by the cops are really outside our T&T forum charter. And do we really need another go-round of the whole "us versus them" thing? I think not...

pax

November 7, 2010, 04:47 AM	#1
Mokumbear Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2005 Posts: 696	Police at the door... Real or not? Very strange situation happened in my county and I am very interested in how it plays out. Let me give you the newspaper article's link rather than try to explain: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/cr...t-1024784.html Now... "There's two sides to every pancake, no matter how thin". I only have the same facts you do. My county is not "Mayberry". We have 100's of Sheriff's deputies. Do you think it was proper for one of the arresting party to be the same deputy that was involved in the earlier road rage episode? OK, I can see how he could help ID the guy, buy they must have had his photo from his DL. I think there is too much of a chance that this could turn into a "vendetta", not an arrest. What would you do if people came to your home and instead of knocking on the door, called you on the phone and represented themselves as police? (What do you do if they knocked on your door, for that matter?) Should he have immediately called 911 and remain armed, inside his house and not open the door rather than confront them with an AK? Is four shots from one deputy overkill/panic? Even with a suspect with an AK, should he have fired? (We don't know if the gun was leveled at the deputy). Even with an AK, if it was pointed at a deputy, should it have been two shots and reassess? Should the deputies have retreated and waited for SWAT to arrive? Perhaps the sight of so many combat armed deputies would have made it clear these were really the police? What do I think? Given what we know from the article, I think mistakes may have been made on both sides. Thank goodness no trick or treating kids or anyone else was hurt.

November 7, 2010, 05:00 AM	#2
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	If the lawyer is to be believed... ... the lawyer called the sheriff's dept, to verify whether an actual deputy was handling a case involving his client, and the sheriff's dept told him there was no such case. So, it's reasonable for the suspect to have been suspicious. Where the suspect screwed up was in coming out of his home with a weapon. Should have bunkered up, and called 911 and then his lawyer. I suspect the detective will have some interesting conversations with his supervisors. It will be interesting to see what the prosecutor's office does.

November 7, 2010, 07:50 AM	#4
Wag Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 988	Subscribed. I'm interested to see how this plays out. Citizen should have called 911, then waited armed inside. Cop needs to get the arrogant chip off his shoulder before he or his family or a fellow officer gets hurt. --Wag-- __________________ "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

November 7, 2010, 08:03 AM	#5
Mokumbear Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2005 Posts: 696	Skifast Skifast: Allegedly, the deputy didn't ticket the driver at the scene because he was off duty and with his family. I think one issue was the deputy brought the "on duty" attitude with him when he was off duty. If someone is driving aggressively, the best thing is to NOT get into a confrontation and separate yourself with distance. You are absolutely right, if this was just a traffic offense, wouldn't it have been better to just mail the ticket (if allowed by the department) or just let it go if they didn't? I think you are all right that the citizen should never have left his house armed. It escalated the situation, would have put himself in jeopardy if they were not real cops and almost got himself killed as is. Even though we are a "Castle Doctrine" state, I remember one case failing because the guy came out of his house and shot someone. You have no duty to retreat but no sanction to advance, either.

November 7, 2010, 11:25 AM	#8
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Closed. The tactical answer for the citizen is clear: stay inside, call for confirmation if you're doubtful. Nothing else to discuss there. The tactics chosen by the cops are really outside our T&T forum charter. And do we really need another go-round of the whole "us versus them" thing? I think not... pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

November 7, 2010, 07:45 AM	#3
skifast Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2008 Posts: 227	The citizen was wrong for going outside with a rifle. He is lucky that these cops can't shoot. The cop was out of line for his actions. First, there is no reason for the arrest. It was a traffic offense. If a ticket was to be issued, it should have been when the offense occurred. Hiding in the bushes cannot be SOP.

November 7, 2010, 08:32 AM	#6
JBial Member Join Date: August 11, 2010 Location: virginia Posts: 60	Sounds to me like Arajuo needs to be suspended or fired. Where in that road rage incident does it warrant him coming back later on to arrest him? For being an *******? If that's the case a lot of jails would be filled with bad drivers. If the detective was so worried about his or anyone elses safety, why didn't he call it in when it first happened and have a marked car issue a warning or ticket. You've got some top notch LEOs in palm beach.

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