new to reloading, have a few questions for 45 acp.

vikingm03 · April 10, 2010, 06:40 PM

Hey everyone, im new to reloading and have a few questions for 45 acp.

1) I pressed my first primer into a processed case today, using a lee hand primer, and i have a concern. The old as dirt handloading guide i have says the primers should be slightly pressed into the primer pocket, in other words the case should be higher than the primer. When i first took the primer out of the hand loader due to it "feeling" like it was fully seated, it was ever so slightly higher than the case. So I put it back in the hand primer, and continued to press/check until i got the slightly pressed into the case like my book recommends. However, the primer now has a circular mark in it! The mark is where the little pushrod the hand primer uses contacts the primer. I havent primed another case yet, due to being deeply concerned about this dent in the primer. So im right to assume this is not normal, right? Is the lee hand primer not functioning right? I did clean the primer pocket before seating the primer.

2) I wanted to check with some knowledgeable people about the load i am going to be using, to make sure i have the correct settings. Right now i am planning on 230grain lead round nose, mixed range collected brass but its %90 winchester, wolf large pistol primer (all i could find), 3.4 grains of clays powder (hodgdon recommended starting is 3.5, 3.4 is the closest scooper i have to this starting level.) And i haven't decided on a starting bullet seating depth yet, but thats where the next question comes in...

3) On the hodgdon website, in the loading data page, there is a data section labeled "C.O.L." with numbers appearing to be the bullet seating depth, is this what the acronym c.o.l. is?

4) Is crimping a lead round nose bullet in 45acp necessary? I will be shooting it through a springfield gi 1911 if that matters. I am using a lee classic loader (the one involving a hammer) and i dont think it has crimping functionality.

If any extra info is needed i can povide =)

Thanks.

rwilson452 · April 10, 2010, 07:23 PM

1) The mark is not a problem. your good to go.

2) I think you will find that 3.4 will not be enough to cycle the action. but try a few and see what happens. I can't remember the dippers. but don't go over 4.0 gr.

3) C.O.L. or C.O.A.L. is the overall length from the bottom of th ebase to the top of the bullet. This is one setting you may need to mess with a bit to get your ammo to work well in your pistol.

4 I haven't messed with a lee loader in many years but I think it does crimp. if the bell is removed from the case after you seat the bullet, your crimped.

Quote:

Hey everyone, im new to reloading and have a few questions for 45 acp.

1) I pressed my first primer into a processed case today, using a lee hand primer, and i have a concern. The old as dirt handloading guide i have says the primers should be slightly pressed into the primer pocket, in other words the case should be higher than the primer. When i first took the primer out of the hand loader due to it "feeling" like it was fully seated, it was ever so slightly higher than the case. So I put it back in the hand primer, and continued to press/check until i got the slightly pressed into the case like my book recommends. However, the primer now has a circular mark in it! The mark is where the little pushrod the hand primer uses contacts the primer. I havent primed another case yet, due to being deeply concerned about this dent in the primer. So im right to assume this is not normal, right? Is the lee hand primer not functioning right? I did clean the primer pocket before seating the primer.

2) I wanted to check with some knowledgeable people about the load i am going to be using, to make sure i have the correct settings. Right now i am planning on 230grain lead round nose, mixed range collected brass but its %90 winchester, wolf large pistol primer (all i could find), 3.4 grains of clays powder (hodgdon recommended starting is 3.5, 3.4 is the closest scooper i have to this starting level.) And i haven't decided on a starting bullet seating depth yet, but thats where the next question comes in...

3) On the hodgdon website, in the loading data page, there is a data section labeled "C.O.L." with numbers appearing to be the bullet seating depth, is this what the acronym c.o.l. is?

4) Is crimping a lead round nose bullet in 45acp necessary? I will be shooting it through a springfield gi 1911 if that matters. I am using a lee classic loader (the one involving a hammer) and i dont think it has crimping functionality.

If any extra info is needed i can povide =)

Thanks.

Don't make too many rounds 5-10 for your first go at it. Don't go for bulk until your sure they will work in your pistol.

vikingm03 · April 10, 2010, 07:53 PM

Thanks for the response rwilson452.

1) your kidding? Alright then, though its a little scarry putting craters in the pressure sensitive part of the round

2) Thanks for the heads up. The next scooper i have is over hodgdon's recomended maximum, so if the 3.4 grain loads dont go well in my 1911 ill have to start looking for a better way to measure.

3) alright, ill probably start with their recomended length. Just curious, what does c.o.a.l. stand for?

4) what is the "bell" on the case?

And ya, i was planning on only making about 10 each trip to the range, to find a good combination that works.

Casimer · April 10, 2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

what does c.o.a.l. stand for?

C.O.L. and C.O.A.L are both Cartridge OverAll Length

rwilson452 · April 10, 2010, 08:33 PM

the "bell" is what you get when you expand the mouth to set the bullet on the case before you seat the bullet.

Quote:

4) what is the "bell" on the case?

rwilson452 · April 10, 2010, 08:35 PM

You have scale, Please tell me you have a scale to weigh your charges.

Quote:

2) Thanks for the heads up. The next scooper i have is over hodgdon's recomended maximum, so if the 3.4 grain loads dont go well in my 1911 ill have to start looking for a better way to measure.

zippy13 · April 10, 2010, 08:45 PM

^^ +1 ^^

You need to seriously think about getting a powder scale. With a scale you'll have the ability to fine tune the dipper to the exact load you want. Without one, you're putting a lot of trust in the dipper maker.

medalguy · April 10, 2010, 11:56 PM

And when you say "handloading guide" you DO have a standard printed loading manual from one of the major companies, such as Lyman, Hornady, Speer, or another big company, right? This is an essential item.

Also, if you're on a budget (we all started out on a budget) you can probably find good loading recommendations online from the various powder company sites to help you, all for free.

Lost Sheep · April 11, 2010, 04:49 AM

vikingm03,

Welcome to reloading and thanks for asking our advice.

The crimp you want on a rimless cartridge (the 45 ACP does not have a "rim" per se. It has an extractor groove. A rim would have a diameter larger than the body of the cartridge) is called a "Taper Crimp" and serves as a "shoulder" or a "stop" to prevent your cartridge from entering the chamber further than it should ("Headspace"). Headspace is essential in order for the firing pin to reach the primer and for the gun to be able to contain the pressure inside the cartridge case.

I recommend you get a copy of "The ABC's of Reloading" and/or thoroughly reading the opening chapters of whatever reloading manual(s) you have. They explain many terms which will also give you the concepts you need to understand your cartridges and gun(s).

By the way, the taper crimp also keeps the bullet from being pushed deeper into the cartridge case (a dangerous condition) as the loaded cartridge cycles through the gun's action. By contrast, revolvers use a roll crimp, which keeps the bullets from being pulled out of the cases by inertia when the gun recoils.

Another point about the "bell" on the case mouth. Just enough is all you should have. It is necessary to that when you start the bullet into the case, it will fit inside the case mouth. If the base of the bullet doesn't go inside, the case mouth will catch on the bullet and the case will crumple or will bite into the bullet and shave lead. In both instances you will have ruined a cartridge case and have to deal with disassembling a loaded round. There are bullet pullers made for this, but if you don't need to buy one right away, it is $20 you don't have to spend today.

Anyhow, if you bell too much, you will reduce the number if times you can reload those cases. The case mouth will work-harden, become brittle and eventually crack. Then, that case is done and recyclable for scrap metal to be re-melted and used for something else.

Things you need (that I think you may not have-please pardon my presumption) and in this order (in my opinion):

Eye protection to use while reloading, especially when seating primers (shooting glasses will do, but for loading, I prefer to have a dedicated pair which are ultra-protective. They are unlikely to go off, but "Safety First"! (This applies to the Hand Primer or the Lee Load-All or any primer seating tool). With the hammer-operated Load-All, maybe a heavy leather glove for the hand holding the tool when seating primers.

Loading manual(s). The more, the better. And pay attention to what type of firearms the loads quoted in the manuals were fired from.

A decent scale. Lee powder scoops are calibrated in cubic centimeters and they come with a table (in the complete set) or a data sheet (when bought singly in tandem with the Lee Dies or the Lee Load-All which you have). I have read that the Lee dippers/scoops throw a bit light. I don't know. I completely ignored the weights table that came with my set of scoops. I scoop, then weigh the charge. Then I know what weight of what powder I am loading.

Don't use a hammer with the Lee Load-All. (Hammers are metal and too rigid) Use a mallet. Mallets are made of wood, rawhide, hard rubber or plastic. They deliver a slightly softer blow and will not work harden the struck end of your tool (or the face of your hammer, which is really meant for nails, which are much more yielding than the Lee Tool). With mine, I also have a 2" thick piece of hardwood that goes under my Lee Tools. It gets dented instead of my furniture.

Good Luck, Be Safe,

Lost Sheep

doctruptwn · April 11, 2010, 09:54 AM

I had a few that seemed tight and would slightly inprint on the prime, No big deal. As long as the primer isn't sticking out beyond the case you should be golden. Lee states to only squeeze the auto prime until it feels seated and check as you did. My one piece of advise buy several extra handles for your auto prime they will break and you have an extra on hand when it does.

tac_driver · April 11, 2010, 02:10 PM

using the lee hand primer seat the primer then turn it a 1/2 way turn and seat it again. works for me. If you put light oil on the moving parts it will last a long time.

spacecoast · April 11, 2010, 03:12 PM

You can do fine with the dippers if you take sufficient care. I have reloaded over 3000 rounds using only dippers with good results. If the dipper is a little light, no problem, just make sure it is completely full. Dip into the powder letting the powder cascade over the top for consistency. You can also make custom dippers by sanding down the tops of the closest one that is larger or by using an empty case.

My favorite load for 45 ACP is 4.7 grains (0.4cc) of titegroup with a 230 grain LRN.

April 10, 2010, 06:40 PM	#1
vikingm03 Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Posts: 49	new to reloading, have a few questions for 45 acp. Hey everyone, im new to reloading and have a few questions for 45 acp. 1) I pressed my first primer into a processed case today, using a lee hand primer, and i have a concern. The old as dirt handloading guide i have says the primers should be slightly pressed into the primer pocket, in other words the case should be higher than the primer. When i first took the primer out of the hand loader due to it "feeling" like it was fully seated, it was ever so slightly higher than the case. So I put it back in the hand primer, and continued to press/check until i got the slightly pressed into the case like my book recommends. However, the primer now has a circular mark in it! The mark is where the little pushrod the hand primer uses contacts the primer. I havent primed another case yet, due to being deeply concerned about this dent in the primer. So im right to assume this is not normal, right? Is the lee hand primer not functioning right? I did clean the primer pocket before seating the primer. 2) I wanted to check with some knowledgeable people about the load i am going to be using, to make sure i have the correct settings. Right now i am planning on 230grain lead round nose, mixed range collected brass but its %90 winchester, wolf large pistol primer (all i could find), 3.4 grains of clays powder (hodgdon recommended starting is 3.5, 3.4 is the closest scooper i have to this starting level.) And i haven't decided on a starting bullet seating depth yet, but thats where the next question comes in... 3) On the hodgdon website, in the loading data page, there is a data section labeled "C.O.L." with numbers appearing to be the bullet seating depth, is this what the acronym c.o.l. is? 4) Is crimping a lead round nose bullet in 45acp necessary? I will be shooting it through a springfield gi 1911 if that matters. I am using a lee classic loader (the one involving a hammer) and i dont think it has crimping functionality. If any extra info is needed i can povide =) Thanks.

April 11, 2010, 04:49 AM	#9
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Welcome to the forum and thanks for asking our advice. vikingm03, Welcome to reloading and thanks for asking our advice. The crimp you want on a rimless cartridge (the 45 ACP does not have a "rim" per se. It has an extractor groove. A rim would have a diameter larger than the body of the cartridge) is called a "Taper Crimp" and serves as a "shoulder" or a "stop" to prevent your cartridge from entering the chamber further than it should ("Headspace"). Headspace is essential in order for the firing pin to reach the primer and for the gun to be able to contain the pressure inside the cartridge case. I recommend you get a copy of "The ABC's of Reloading" and/or thoroughly reading the opening chapters of whatever reloading manual(s) you have. They explain many terms which will also give you the concepts you need to understand your cartridges and gun(s). By the way, the taper crimp also keeps the bullet from being pushed deeper into the cartridge case (a dangerous condition) as the loaded cartridge cycles through the gun's action. By contrast, revolvers use a roll crimp, which keeps the bullets from being pulled out of the cases by inertia when the gun recoils. Another point about the "bell" on the case mouth. Just enough is all you should have. It is necessary to that when you start the bullet into the case, it will fit inside the case mouth. If the base of the bullet doesn't go inside, the case mouth will catch on the bullet and the case will crumple or will bite into the bullet and shave lead. In both instances you will have ruined a cartridge case and have to deal with disassembling a loaded round. There are bullet pullers made for this, but if you don't need to buy one right away, it is $20 you don't have to spend today. Anyhow, if you bell too much, you will reduce the number if times you can reload those cases. The case mouth will work-harden, become brittle and eventually crack. Then, that case is done and recyclable for scrap metal to be re-melted and used for something else. Things you need (that I think you may not have-please pardon my presumption) and in this order (in my opinion): Eye protection to use while reloading, especially when seating primers (shooting glasses will do, but for loading, I prefer to have a dedicated pair which are ultra-protective. They are unlikely to go off, but "Safety First"! (This applies to the Hand Primer or the Lee Load-All or any primer seating tool). With the hammer-operated Load-All, maybe a heavy leather glove for the hand holding the tool when seating primers. Loading manual(s). The more, the better. And pay attention to what type of firearms the loads quoted in the manuals were fired from. A decent scale. Lee powder scoops are calibrated in cubic centimeters and they come with a table (in the complete set) or a data sheet (when bought singly in tandem with the Lee Dies or the Lee Load-All which you have). I have read that the Lee dippers/scoops throw a bit light. I don't know. I completely ignored the weights table that came with my set of scoops. I scoop, then weigh the charge. Then I know what weight of what powder I am loading. Don't use a hammer with the Lee Load-All. (Hammers are metal and too rigid) Use a mallet. Mallets are made of wood, rawhide, hard rubber or plastic. They deliver a slightly softer blow and will not work harden the struck end of your tool (or the face of your hammer, which is really meant for nails, which are much more yielding than the Lee Tool). With mine, I also have a 2" thick piece of hardwood that goes under my Lee Tools. It gets dented instead of my furniture. Good Luck, Be Safe, Lost Sheep

April 11, 2010, 02:10 PM	#11
tac_driver Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 61	using the lee hand primer seat the primer then turn it a 1/2 way turn and seat it again. works for me. If you put light oil on the moving parts it will last a long time. __________________ http://home.roadrunner.com/~cuttingedgz/ 22/45 Ruger S&W 640 Glock 21SF,S&W 67 Combat,Colt series 80 Combat,Glock 19

April 10, 2010, 07:53 PM	#3
vikingm03 Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Posts: 49	Thanks for the response rwilson452. 1) your kidding? Alright then, though its a little scarry putting craters in the pressure sensitive part of the round 2) Thanks for the heads up. The next scooper i have is over hodgdon's recomended maximum, so if the 3.4 grain loads dont go well in my 1911 ill have to start looking for a better way to measure. 3) alright, ill probably start with their recomended length. Just curious, what does c.o.a.l. stand for? 4) what is the "bell" on the case? And ya, i was planning on only making about 10 each trip to the range, to find a good combination that works.

April 10, 2010, 08:45 PM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	^^ +1 ^^ You need to seriously think about getting a powder scale. With a scale you'll have the ability to fine tune the dipper to the exact load you want. Without one, you're putting a lot of trust in the dipper maker.

April 10, 2010, 11:56 PM	#8
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	And when you say "handloading guide" you DO have a standard printed loading manual from one of the major companies, such as Lyman, Hornady, Speer, or another big company, right? This is an essential item. Also, if you're on a budget (we all started out on a budget) you can probably find good loading recommendations online from the various powder company sites to help you, all for free.

April 11, 2010, 09:54 AM	#10
doctruptwn Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 197	I had a few that seemed tight and would slightly inprint on the prime, No big deal. As long as the primer isn't sticking out beyond the case you should be golden. Lee states to only squeeze the auto prime until it feels seated and check as you did. My one piece of advise buy several extra handles for your auto prime they will break and you have an extra on hand when it does.

April 11, 2010, 03:12 PM	#12
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	You can do fine with the dippers if you take sufficient care. I have reloaded over 3000 rounds using only dippers with good results. If the dipper is a little light, no problem, just make sure it is completely full. Dip into the powder letting the powder cascade over the top for consistency. You can also make custom dippers by sanding down the tops of the closest one that is larger or by using an empty case. My favorite load for 45 ACP is 4.7 grains (0.4cc) of titegroup with a 230 grain LRN.