What's your opnion of those .44 caliber Navy models?

ZVP · January 2, 2015, 11:59 PM

I have some VERY mixed feelings!
No they're not the "right" Caliber, but they are really neat! The power ofthe big ball , even at low velocites offers very good accuracy in the low charges afforded by Brass framed models,
The short barreled, steel framed Sherrif's models are pretty awsome! Takl about power in a small pacage! Priced considerably higher than the Brassers, they offer a uniqueexperience and a pretty GOOD gun to own!
Now what are your feelings aboutthis Fantasy gun come true??? Is it a good thing or aflash in the pan so to speak?
I think they'll survive.
ZVP

Hawg · January 3, 2015, 06:37 AM

I know they will survive because they've already been around a long time but I think it's a pity. I wish they'd never been dreamed up.

Smokin'Joe · January 3, 2015, 12:11 PM

Aw, come on Hawg. My favorite B/P shooter is my open-top .44 brasser with 5 inch barrel. Paid $119.99 with free shipping a few years back. And please don't tell me about brass frame longevity. When it does finally wear out I'll still have a pile of parts worth more than I paid for the entire gun. Plus I'm having a great time shooting it now. I'm no cowboy or lawman and don't pretend to be one. I just like shooting black powder guns.

Hawg · January 3, 2015, 12:15 PM

Smokin'Joe, I don't like them from the historical perspective. If you're happy with it that's fine.

**4V50 Gary** · January 3, 2015, 12:17 PM

No opinion. I'm not historically accurate and my favorite is still the Ruger Old Army. I have one brass frame Colt and I won't chuck it out because it's 44.

Hawg · January 3, 2015, 12:20 PM

Quote:

I have one brass frame Colt and I won't chuck it out because it's 44.

Colt never made a brass frame either. Just sayin.

Gaucho Gringo · January 3, 2015, 01:03 PM

I had a steel framed one that I wish I had never sold. The 1860 that replaced it looks nicer but I shot the 1851 .44 better because of it's heavier barrel.

Fingers McGee · January 3, 2015, 01:13 PM

I'm with Hawg, .44 cal 1851 Navies and Brass framed .44s of any kind are an abomination.

Admittedly, I do own a pair of Pietta laser engraved, polished in the white, Marshal Model 1851s in .44. But they're mainly used as BBQ guns now days.

Beagle333 · January 3, 2015, 10:34 PM

I like em because I can have both styles (Navy and Army) of pistols with only one set of molds/cleaning equipment. Which might be why they survive.

Model12Win · January 3, 2015, 10:51 PM

I love my Pietta Colt .44 navy, it's got the brass frame the confederates used because it was cheaper and doesn't rust. It's got the short 4 inch barrel that I think was the favorite of General Lee. A real man stopper with a 35 grain load of Hogdon 777 and a .454 round ball with crisco to prevent chain fire.

Hawg · January 3, 2015, 11:32 PM

Quote:

It's got the short 4 inch barrel that I think was the favorite of General Lee

Don't know where you heard that but Lee carried an uncut navy.

Fingers McGee · January 3, 2015, 11:39 PM

What Hawg said - beat me to it.

Hellgate · January 4, 2015, 12:12 AM

Sorry to differ with you Fingers as we usually are together on most things cap & ball. I absolutely LOVE my steel framed ASM '51 Navy 44s. They are my "serious match" guns for when I've been called out. I get the fast handling (and light weight) of the Navy with the whollop of the 44 Army for knockdowns. I've shot several two day annual and state matches CLEAN with them. I shoot just about everything else for the pure enjoyment (Armies, lots of Remingtons 36 & 44, Dance, brasser Colt 44s, etc.) but my 44 "Navies" are my go to guns.

Fingers McGee · January 4, 2015, 12:58 PM

I won't hold that against you Hellgate

, we're still friends. If I shoot .44s, it's a pair of 1860 Sheriffs models. My go to guns are a pair of 2nd Gen .36 cal 1861 Navies. I also have a variety of C&Bs that I use - Navy Army Frontiersmen, Leech & Rigdons, 1851 Navies, 1861 Whitneys, and other 1861 Navies. All in REL and WBHs favorite .36.

Bigdog57 · January 6, 2015, 09:15 AM

I personally like the .44cal. 1851 Navy replicas, even if they aren't 'historically accurate'....... I have four of them! Two brassers, two steel. Great fun.
My first one from the '70s (Pietta) is brass-framed and smaller, trimmer and lighter manufacture, with different grip shape. Pietta seems to have altered the manufacture sometime later, as the three newer guns are beefier. The grips more flared at the bottom.
I was "young & stupid" when I got the first revolver and the K-mart employee who sold it to me knew no more than me. He sold me .457 flat based bullets! Had a devil of a time loading those things in, round nose first! Made a heck of a 'wad-cutter', on top of as much Pyrodex as I could stuff in the chambers. Big Boom! Six times! It could put that flat nosed 'ball' through both sides of the old truck bed I shot against. Sometimes the hammer would recock from the flash through the nipple! Yep, I was stupid.......

Eventually the cylinder lock and it's spring both broke, and I couldn't get the proper parts. The parts I used required a LOT of reshaping just to get it to function about 50%. Locks up sometimes. So it is a wall queen now.
Surprised it never grenade on me! I guess Pietta builds them stout!

I have treated my newer C&B guns much better!

bedbugbilly · January 7, 2015, 06:29 PM

I know Christmas is past us . . but . . Bah! Humbug!

A "Navy" ought to be a "Navy" and an "Army" and "Army" . . .

But in fairness to all . . . to each their own. Not everyone likes Chevy or Ford . . . that's what makes us "unique".

Hellgate · January 9, 2015, 12:20 AM

BBBilly,
Instead of Ford vs Chevy, how 'bout Ginger vs Marianne?

Gunfixr · January 9, 2015, 09:51 AM

If you're going to shoot it a lot, get steel.
Back in the 80s, I stretched a 36 cal navy frame in about a year, a lot.
Still sits on the mantle, hasn't been fired in decades now. With the end slop, it may not fire.

ZVP · January 10, 2015, 05:39 AM

Opinons seem split between actual firing "fun" and Historical accuracy.
Truthfully I wish my Brasser was a .36 just cause I like the caliber but light loading at 18-20 gr charges allows the .44 revolver to shoot as soft as a .36 and the action in the Brass frame is buttery smooth.
Wanting to be "right" about my guns, I find the .44 Navy an abortion! But for what I paid ( and it DID start me in this wonderfull aspect of shooting!) I just accept the gun as my starter piece.
My next big task is filing the sights on my "correct '51" to Center POA and zeroing them for 15 yards with a 22 gr charge. This ought to make my "fun shooter" a real , offhand any range Can Buster! I have a Remington sighted POA @ 21ft, and I wish I'd set it for 15 yards too! For my eyes this works.
Thanks for all the answers guys!!!
Gosh, shooting Black Powder Cap and Ball Revolvers is FUN and relaxing!
ZVP

Bigdog57 · January 12, 2015, 02:35 PM

ZVP, what is your powder load for the .36 caliber?
I am still looking for a safe load with some 'bark'.

brazosdave · January 14, 2015, 07:02 PM

I know Hawg and Fingers feelings about the .44 "navies", lol!, and i respect them. However, my first bp revolver was a steel framed 60. I still have it, i like it well enuff, but i never would have become the bp enthusiast i am today if had not been for a "abomination", that being a sheriff brasser pietta .44. I fell in love with that gun, and about 30 or so revolvers later, i still hold a fond spot in my heart for it. I just like the way it feels. Historically accurate, nah. I have guns that are, and if i really want to get into the period, i have a couple original S & W's, circa 1886 to 1894 or so that i can load up bp cartridges for. But i have love for my brasser .44's, and my brasser.31's.

AKexpat · January 14, 2015, 08:40 PM

I would like to acquire an 1851 steel frame .44 and add a conversion cylinder (Taylor's, Howell's, Kirst) for .45 Colt to obviate the tedious cleaning of BP/Pyro and have a pistol that shoots mild smokeless rounds with the pointability/balance of an 1851.

Just purchased a new Pietta 1851 .36. I like it immensely, but had I thought out the purchase of a new gun better, I would have changed my mind, except I bought it just for the massage factor and it was on sale at Cabela's for a nickel less than 2 C notes. Something soothing about it. I know I can purchase cowboy heeled bullet loads for it, and am considering buying a Lee Loader and a scale to do homemade rounds once I make the plunge for a cylinder that costs nearly twice what I paid for the pistol.

I still like the 1851 Navy for looks and balance. JBH was right.

Guns are fairly addictive, eh?

Jim

Poodleshooter · January 14, 2015, 09:04 PM

I suspect grip frame size crossed with the .44 preference partly drives the ".44 Navy" market.
People with average hands seems to prefer the Navy sized grip frame...likely why that's what ended up on the SAA.

ZVP · January 15, 2015, 10:20 PM

Bigdog
A simple weightd every cylinder ( I pour from a flask to a measure then to the gun just because of safety concerns) 22 gr of Pyrodex, some COW, a felt lubed wad and a ball.
Real BP is hard to get here where I live!
Great accuracy, plenty of boom, and no recoil.
HTH,
ZVP

44 Dave · January 15, 2015, 11:42 PM

Doesn't Pietta make the .44 Navy? Then you also get the "Pietta hook" grip!
I have lately come over to the .36 Navy for everyday carry and shooting, for the economics of it, lot more balls/lb. of lead and more shots/lb. of powder.
I also like the sight picture of the '51.

January 2, 2015, 11:59 PM	#1
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	What's your opnion of those .44 caliber Navy models? I have some VERY mixed feelings! No they're not the "right" Caliber, but they are really neat! The power ofthe big ball , even at low velocites offers very good accuracy in the low charges afforded by Brass framed models, The short barreled, steel framed Sherrif's models are pretty awsome! Takl about power in a small pacage! Priced considerably higher than the Brassers, they offer a uniqueexperience and a pretty GOOD gun to own! Now what are your feelings aboutthis Fantasy gun come true??? Is it a good thing or aflash in the pan so to speak? I think they'll survive. ZVP

January 3, 2015, 12:17 PM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,840	No opinion. I'm not historically accurate and my favorite is still the Ruger Old Army. I have one brass frame Colt and I won't chuck it out because it's 44. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 3, 2015, 01:03 PM	#7
Gaucho Gringo Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 366	I had a steel framed one that I wish I had never sold. The 1860 that replaced it looks nicer but I shot the 1851 .44 better because of it's heavier barrel. __________________ 357 Taurus Gaucho, 22 Heritage RR, 2-Pietta 1858 44 NMA Remingtons, Pietta, Euroarms & ASM 36 1851 Navies, 31 Uberti 1849, 12 ga H&R Topper, 16 Ga Western Field, 43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block, 44 ASM Colt Walker, High Point C9 9mm, Winchester 1906 22, Rossi 62 22 rifle, Uberti 1860, H&A & IJ 32 S&W BreakTop, 36 Euroarms 1858, 32 H&R 04, 22mag NAA SS BP revolver, .44 Rodgers & Spencer, IJ 38 S&W BreakTop, IJ 22 Sealed 8

January 3, 2015, 01:13 PM	#8
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	.44 Navies and Brassers are an abomination I'm with Hawg, .44 cal 1851 Navies and Brass framed .44s of any kind are an abomination. Admittedly, I do own a pair of Pietta laser engraved, polished in the white, Marshal Model 1851s in .44. But they're mainly used as BBQ guns now days. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce Last edited by Fingers McGee; January 3, 2015 at 01:15 PM. Reason: correct spelling and grammar

January 3, 2015, 10:34 PM	#9
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	I like em because I can have both styles (Navy and Army) of pistols with only one set of molds/cleaning equipment. Which might be why they survive. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

January 3, 2015, 06:37 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I know they will survive because they've already been around a long time but I think it's a pity. I wish they'd never been dreamed up.

January 3, 2015, 12:11 PM	#3
Smokin'Joe Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2010 Posts: 211	Aw, come on Hawg. My favorite B/P shooter is my open-top .44 brasser with 5 inch barrel. Paid $119.99 with free shipping a few years back. And please don't tell me about brass frame longevity. When it does finally wear out I'll still have a pile of parts worth more than I paid for the entire gun. Plus I'm having a great time shooting it now. I'm no cowboy or lawman and don't pretend to be one. I just like shooting black powder guns.

January 3, 2015, 12:15 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Smokin'Joe, I don't like them from the historical perspective. If you're happy with it that's fine.

January 3, 2015, 10:51 PM	#10
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I love my Pietta Colt .44 navy, it's got the brass frame the confederates used because it was cheaper and doesn't rust. It's got the short 4 inch barrel that I think was the favorite of General Lee. A real man stopper with a 35 grain load of Hogdon 777 and a .454 round ball with crisco to prevent chain fire.

January 3, 2015, 11:39 PM	#12
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	What Hawg said - beat me to it. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

January 4, 2015, 12:12 AM	#13
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	Sorry to differ with you Fingers as we usually are together on most things cap & ball. I absolutely LOVE my steel framed ASM '51 Navy 44s. They are my "serious match" guns for when I've been called out. I get the fast handling (and light weight) of the Navy with the whollop of the 44 Army for knockdowns. I've shot several two day annual and state matches CLEAN with them. I shoot just about everything else for the pure enjoyment (Armies, lots of Remingtons 36 & 44, Dance, brasser Colt 44s, etc.) but my 44 "Navies" are my go to guns. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

January 4, 2015, 12:58 PM	#14
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	I won't hold that against you Hellgate , we're still friends. If I shoot .44s, it's a pair of 1860 Sheriffs models. My go to guns are a pair of 2nd Gen .36 cal 1861 Navies. I also have a variety of C&Bs that I use - Navy Army Frontiersmen, Leech & Rigdons, 1851 Navies, 1861 Whitneys, and other 1861 Navies. All in REL and WBHs favorite .36. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

January 6, 2015, 09:15 AM	#15
Bigdog57 Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2006 Posts: 122	I personally like the .44cal. 1851 Navy replicas, even if they aren't 'historically accurate'....... I have four of them! Two brassers, two steel. Great fun. My first one from the '70s (Pietta) is brass-framed and smaller, trimmer and lighter manufacture, with different grip shape. Pietta seems to have altered the manufacture sometime later, as the three newer guns are beefier. The grips more flared at the bottom. I was "young & stupid" when I got the first revolver and the K-mart employee who sold it to me knew no more than me. He sold me .457 flat based bullets! Had a devil of a time loading those things in, round nose first! Made a heck of a 'wad-cutter', on top of as much Pyrodex as I could stuff in the chambers. Big Boom! Six times! It could put that flat nosed 'ball' through both sides of the old truck bed I shot against. Sometimes the hammer would recock from the flash through the nipple! Yep, I was stupid....... Eventually the cylinder lock and it's spring both broke, and I couldn't get the proper parts. The parts I used required a LOT of reshaping just to get it to function about 50%. Locks up sometimes. So it is a wall queen now. Surprised it never grenade on me! I guess Pietta builds them stout! I have treated my newer C&B guns much better!

January 7, 2015, 06:29 PM	#16
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	I know Christmas is past us . . but . . Bah! Humbug! A "Navy" ought to be a "Navy" and an "Army" and "Army" . . . But in fairness to all . . . to each their own. Not everyone likes Chevy or Ford . . . that's what makes us "unique". __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

January 9, 2015, 12:20 AM	#17
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	BBBilly, Instead of Ford vs Chevy, how 'bout Ginger vs Marianne? __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

January 9, 2015, 09:51 AM	#18
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	If you're going to shoot it a lot, get steel. Back in the 80s, I stretched a 36 cal navy frame in about a year, a lot. Still sits on the mantle, hasn't been fired in decades now. With the end slop, it may not fire.

January 10, 2015, 05:39 AM	#19
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Opinons seem split between actual firing "fun" and Historical accuracy. Truthfully I wish my Brasser was a .36 just cause I like the caliber but light loading at 18-20 gr charges allows the .44 revolver to shoot as soft as a .36 and the action in the Brass frame is buttery smooth. Wanting to be "right" about my guns, I find the .44 Navy an abortion! But for what I paid ( and it DID start me in this wonderfull aspect of shooting!) I just accept the gun as my starter piece. My next big task is filing the sights on my "correct '51" to Center POA and zeroing them for 15 yards with a 22 gr charge. This ought to make my "fun shooter" a real , offhand any range Can Buster! I have a Remington sighted POA @ 21ft, and I wish I'd set it for 15 yards too! For my eyes this works. Thanks for all the answers guys!!! Gosh, shooting Black Powder Cap and Ball Revolvers is FUN and relaxing! ZVP

January 12, 2015, 02:35 PM	#20
Bigdog57 Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2006 Posts: 122	ZVP, what is your powder load for the .36 caliber? I am still looking for a safe load with some 'bark'.

January 14, 2015, 07:02 PM	#21
brazosdave Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2012 Location: Crockett, Texas Posts: 363	I know Hawg and Fingers feelings about the .44 "navies", lol!, and i respect them. However, my first bp revolver was a steel framed 60. I still have it, i like it well enuff, but i never would have become the bp enthusiast i am today if had not been for a "abomination", that being a sheriff brasser pietta .44. I fell in love with that gun, and about 30 or so revolvers later, i still hold a fond spot in my heart for it. I just like the way it feels. Historically accurate, nah. I have guns that are, and if i really want to get into the period, i have a couple original S & W's, circa 1886 to 1894 or so that i can load up bp cartridges for. But i have love for my brasser .44's, and my brasser.31's. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry, it's just my game"

January 14, 2015, 08:40 PM	#22
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	I would like to acquire an 1851 steel frame .44 and add a conversion cylinder (Taylor's, Howell's, Kirst) for .45 Colt to obviate the tedious cleaning of BP/Pyro and have a pistol that shoots mild smokeless rounds with the pointability/balance of an 1851. Just purchased a new Pietta 1851 .36. I like it immensely, but had I thought out the purchase of a new gun better, I would have changed my mind, except I bought it just for the massage factor and it was on sale at Cabela's for a nickel less than 2 C notes. Something soothing about it. I know I can purchase cowboy heeled bullet loads for it, and am considering buying a Lee Loader and a scale to do homemade rounds once I make the plunge for a cylinder that costs nearly twice what I paid for the pistol. I still like the 1851 Navy for looks and balance. JBH was right. Guns are fairly addictive, eh? Jim __________________ To be governed – is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censured, checked, valued, enrolled – by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

January 14, 2015, 09:04 PM	#23
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	I suspect grip frame size crossed with the .44 preference partly drives the ".44 Navy" market. People with average hands seems to prefer the Navy sized grip frame...likely why that's what ended up on the SAA.

January 15, 2015, 10:20 PM	#24
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Bigdog A simple weightd every cylinder ( I pour from a flask to a measure then to the gun just because of safety concerns) 22 gr of Pyrodex, some COW, a felt lubed wad and a ball. Real BP is hard to get here where I live! Great accuracy, plenty of boom, and no recoil. HTH, ZVP Last edited by ZVP; January 16, 2015 at 11:58 AM.

January 15, 2015, 11:42 PM	#25
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Grim-frame? Doesn't Pietta make the .44 Navy? Then you also get the "Pietta hook" grip! I have lately come over to the .36 Navy for everyday carry and shooting, for the economics of it, lot more balls/lb. of lead and more shots/lb. of powder. I also like the sight picture of the '51.