Model 94 Accurizing....

Dave McC · November 16, 1999, 01:35 PM

There's a hole in my personal collection that I'm plugging with a standard Model 94 Winchester in the venerable 30-30 caliber. The piece has now a peep sight and swivel studs, and will be used for some deer hunting and possibly scout work. I can lighten the trigger a skosh and smooth the action(while used,this'un looks like it's never been fired or taken from the box) but I wonder if there's any tricks for improving the accuracy.

I'll be using factory loads, probably the Winchester Premium 150 gr.

Anyone out there ever tried glassbedding the forearms to the bbl? I've done a few bolt guns and a ML,with good results, just wanna get the maximum performance from the weapon.

Suggestions, comments, donations?

Will Beararms · November 16, 1999, 07:23 PM

Take it from someone who depends soley on the 30-30 Marlin to hunt Whitetail in the dense SE AR thickets, put a cheap 4X scope on that 94' and go with it. You will be able to do anything you wish within the effective range of a 30-30-----100 yards or less. I knocked a small buck on his rear end last Saturday with the "el cheapo" Remington 150 grain express soft point at 65 steps. ($6.99 per box at Academy Sports). Don't listen to the tomfoolery various concerns will attach to their "special" 30-30 ammo. Bear in mind that the only safe round for your tube-fed tool is a blunt nose soft point and with that 100 yards or less is the optimal distance for such bullets. Pointed cartridges may cause a primer to ignite in the tubular magazine. You will absolutely love the fast follow up capability afforded by the lever action and portability of your Winchester while in hot pursuit. Many will say the 30-30 is outdated. Not so, just don't go beyond the length of a football field and you will be well served.

------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

[This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited November 16, 1999).]

Dave McC · November 16, 1999, 10:02 PM

Thanks, Will, no tyro here. In the brush I hunt in Md, it's rare to see 100 yards. My best guess is I take deer at an average distance of 30 yards or so,never past 60.

And, at those ranges a 4x scope is like a parachute on a submarine, an answer to the wrong question. I'll stick to the peep, which is what's on the other 4 deer guns or so here.

Agreed on the 30-30s worth, way too many folks worship at the altar of the long range Gods.

Have a good'un...

James K · November 16, 1999, 10:36 PM

Hi, Dave,

The accuracy of the 94 can be improved considerably by a few simple steps. Remove the band, foreend and mag tube. Then free up the band screws by filing out the notches in the barrel. Shorten the magazine plug screw if it touches the barrel, but make sure it still goes into the hole. Clean out the tops of the band so they are a loose slide fit on the barrel. Clean up the foreend wood if it presses hard on the barrel.

If you haven't guessed it yet, you are free floating the barrel as much as possible with a tubular magazine. Shoot from a rest that doesn't touch the barrel or the front of the foreend. I think you will be amazed at the result.

Jim

sharpsrifle · November 16, 1999, 10:36 PM

Dave McC. Smoothing the trigger and action are good ideas. One other thing to do is open up the front barrel band so that it does not touch the barrel. Often times a so-so M94 will perk right up.
Though this doesn't apply to your particular gun, one other thing to watch for on used ones is muzzle/crown wear. Lot's of guys ride with them leaning on the seat of their truck with the muzzle resting on the dirty floorboard. A few dings on the crown and bye bye accuracy. I am convinced that a lot of the M94's reputation for poor accuracy is caused that way.

------------------
Regards, Sharps.

DeBee · November 16, 1999, 11:19 PM

I'm glad to hear your project is coming along... did you get a tang sight?

There are several Model 94 tweeks a proficient amateur gunsmith can execute with caution, properly fitting screw drivers, and sharp files:

The first is the judicious smoothing of sear and hammer. You seemed to have covered this.

Second, detail filing of the screw hole channels that hold the wood and metal together using a needle file. The holes are straightened and slightly enlarged. If done correctly, the screws holding the wood and metal together won't balk and cause unenven pressure on the barrel.

Third, careful light polishing (no metal removal) of the inside diameter of the barrel band and magazine band. Smooth these areas out to relieve uneven pressure with crocus cloth or 1500 paper on a tight fitting oak dowel. A tight but consistent even fit is preferred.

Last, is the adjustment of the magazine plug screw which is tapped through the magazine plug and into the bottom of the barrel. If the screw is torqued down to hard, groups will suffer. If it's too loose, it'll be lost in the snow at the first shot. The screw should be loosened to "finger tight"- still in the threads- then held in place with locktite. This will further relieve pressure on the barrel which should be damn near free float by now!

Beyond those mods, you might have to handload (but I don't yet) or get the thing rebarreled. You have the spirit of the gun- it's not supposed to be a sub MOA 1000 yd tactical solution- just a superior brush gun.

Dave McC · November 17, 1999, 08:12 AM

Wow, guys,this is just what I'm looking for! Many thanks....

DeBee, got a Wms peep, not a tang sight. While I like tang sights, the Wms has done well for me.

The 94's on Layaway down at Guns R Us. I'll be bailing it out shortly but not in time for gun season here in Md. No problem, I hunt a shotgun county and this 94 isn't needed for this season.

When I get it, the first thing will be to sit and watch TV while cycling the action until my hands get tired. That should be enough to work mark the action parts. Then, it gets dissassembled and all the scratch marks inside get the Jeweler's rouge on a felt wheel routine. The trigger's not bad so it'll just get cleaned up instead of lightened. After a little Gunslick's applied and then wiped off to leave the thinnest of coats, it's reassembled.

Then, I'll work over the wood and bbl band, mag tube stuff. When time allows, I hie myself out to the range and zero in,then fire a coupla three shot groups. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks...

Will Beararms · November 17, 1999, 09:22 PM

Dave:

I believe I read from another post that you have been hunting and shooting since 1956 so without question, you have already forgotten more than I will ever know. That having been said, let me quickly relate a personal experience to you.

I have always sworn by the 30-06 prior to this year after 28 years of hunting Whitetail in Southeast AR. I still think it is the best all-around cartridge available today. I have never lost a deer with one but I have had the problem of Deer running up to 100 yards when shot at ranges of less than 100 yards. In the thickets we hunt, 100 yards may mean a lost animal.

My older brother has always laughed at me as he took his budget grade Marlin w/a cheapo 4X and knocked deer down at ranges of 40 to 80 yards. I have always questioned the effectiveness of a 4X at distances around the 30 to 35 yard mark. The next time you visit your favorite gun shop (not a meglamart), pick up a 4X and look at the wall across from you then walk over to the window and look across the street. I will bet tonight's supper that you will be able to focus on the wall blurry as it may be and then quickly transition to the longer ranges across the street. The point I am making is that in my case, a 4X with those very close shots will actually help you to seperate the deer from the brush for better shot placement. Additionally, you have the option of mounting the low power optic of your choice (2X-4X)in the same manner as is typically done on a scout rifle. Above all, if you go with a scope,stay with a fixed power. The variables are worthless in the type of terrain you and I hunt in. The time taken to adjust the power setting may be all the time you have to get off a well placed shot.

Certainly, I am not gunsmith and you have received some excellent advice on various accurizing methods. Nevertheless, I would not write off a red dot sight system or low power scope before trying a rifle outfitted in such a manner that might be accessed from a friend or from a full service gun range. Feel free to flame me if you feel I'm out of line and good luck with a must have rifle for every complete weapons collection.

------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

Dave McC · November 18, 1999, 06:52 AM

No flames, Will, we're merely disagreeing and not much of that.I save flames for ARAs, anti gunners, Clintonistas,etc...

Owned a number of excellent 06's, and regard that caliber in a good bolt action as the ideal all around rifle. But we're talking a different story here.

First used a peep sight in tne military, and it served me well in the late unpleasantness in SEA. Right now, there's at least 4 weapons here at Casa McC with them,and the only scope's on a 10-22 the kids plink with.

Not dumping on scopes OR other's choices here. Have tried out red dot sights and various scopes, but prefer the tried and true peep for my style of hunting. Simple, rugged, and accurate.

Re variable scopes, last 06 here was a tackdriver with the Leopold 3.5-10X on it. The one time I used it for hunting,turned it down to 3.5X, and taped it there. Plenty of magnification for everything less than beanfield shots.

About 06s and long blood trails, the 06 I had before that one had a brush load worked up for it. After some research,I used the 170 gr Ballistic Tip Solid Base projectile that Nosler made for the 30-30, and a starting load of IMR 4350 to produce a brush load that cloverleafed at 100 yards if I did my part. The one deer I finished off for a friend with it was DRT.

Back to the 94. While I presently mostly hunt shotgun counties, that may change. The 94 gives me one outstanding option,and one of more versatility than a bolt gun and scope. Of course, I'll probably get another one of those once Daughter's out of college.

Have a good'un and thanks...

November 16, 1999, 01:35 PM	#1
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	There's a hole in my personal collection that I'm plugging with a standard Model 94 Winchester in the venerable 30-30 caliber. The piece has now a peep sight and swivel studs, and will be used for some deer hunting and possibly scout work. I can lighten the trigger a skosh and smooth the action(while used,this'un looks like it's never been fired or taken from the box) but I wonder if there's any tricks for improving the accuracy. I'll be using factory loads, probably the Winchester Premium 150 gr. Anyone out there ever tried glassbedding the forearms to the bbl? I've done a few bolt guns and a ML,with good results, just wanna get the maximum performance from the weapon. Suggestions, comments, donations?

November 16, 1999, 07:23 PM	#2
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Take it from someone who depends soley on the 30-30 Marlin to hunt Whitetail in the dense SE AR thickets, put a cheap 4X scope on that 94' and go with it. You will be able to do anything you wish within the effective range of a 30-30-----100 yards or less. I knocked a small buck on his rear end last Saturday with the "el cheapo" Remington 150 grain express soft point at 65 steps. ($6.99 per box at Academy Sports). Don't listen to the tomfoolery various concerns will attach to their "special" 30-30 ammo. Bear in mind that the only safe round for your tube-fed tool is a blunt nose soft point and with that 100 yards or less is the optimal distance for such bullets. Pointed cartridges may cause a primer to ignite in the tubular magazine. You will absolutely love the fast follow up capability afforded by the lever action and portability of your Winchester while in hot pursuit. Many will say the 30-30 is outdated. Not so, just don't go beyond the length of a football field and you will be well served. ------------------ "When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw." [This message has been edited by Will Beararms (edited November 16, 1999).]

November 16, 1999, 10:02 PM	#3
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks, Will, no tyro here. In the brush I hunt in Md, it's rare to see 100 yards. My best guess is I take deer at an average distance of 30 yards or so,never past 60. And, at those ranges a 4x scope is like a parachute on a submarine, an answer to the wrong question. I'll stick to the peep, which is what's on the other 4 deer guns or so here. Agreed on the 30-30s worth, way too many folks worship at the altar of the long range Gods. Have a good'un...

November 16, 1999, 10:36 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Dave, The accuracy of the 94 can be improved considerably by a few simple steps. Remove the band, foreend and mag tube. Then free up the band screws by filing out the notches in the barrel. Shorten the magazine plug screw if it touches the barrel, but make sure it still goes into the hole. Clean out the tops of the band so they are a loose slide fit on the barrel. Clean up the foreend wood if it presses hard on the barrel. If you haven't guessed it yet, you are free floating the barrel as much as possible with a tubular magazine. Shoot from a rest that doesn't touch the barrel or the front of the foreend. I think you will be amazed at the result. Jim

November 16, 1999, 10:36 PM	#5
sharpsrifle Member Join Date: July 19, 1999 Posts: 84	Dave McC. Smoothing the trigger and action are good ideas. One other thing to do is open up the front barrel band so that it does not touch the barrel. Often times a so-so M94 will perk right up. Though this doesn't apply to your particular gun, one other thing to watch for on used ones is muzzle/crown wear. Lot's of guys ride with them leaning on the seat of their truck with the muzzle resting on the dirty floorboard. A few dings on the crown and bye bye accuracy. I am convinced that a lot of the M94's reputation for poor accuracy is caused that way. ------------------ Regards, Sharps.

November 16, 1999, 11:19 PM	#6
DeBee Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 1999 Posts: 408	I'm glad to hear your project is coming along... did you get a tang sight? There are several Model 94 tweeks a proficient amateur gunsmith can execute with caution, properly fitting screw drivers, and sharp files: The first is the judicious smoothing of sear and hammer. You seemed to have covered this. Second, detail filing of the screw hole channels that hold the wood and metal together using a needle file. The holes are straightened and slightly enlarged. If done correctly, the screws holding the wood and metal together won't balk and cause unenven pressure on the barrel. Third, careful light polishing (no metal removal) of the inside diameter of the barrel band and magazine band. Smooth these areas out to relieve uneven pressure with crocus cloth or 1500 paper on a tight fitting oak dowel. A tight but consistent even fit is preferred. Last, is the adjustment of the magazine plug screw which is tapped through the magazine plug and into the bottom of the barrel. If the screw is torqued down to hard, groups will suffer. If it's too loose, it'll be lost in the snow at the first shot. The screw should be loosened to "finger tight"- still in the threads- then held in place with locktite. This will further relieve pressure on the barrel which should be damn near free float by now! Beyond those mods, you might have to handload (but I don't yet) or get the thing rebarreled. You have the spirit of the gun- it's not supposed to be a sub MOA 1000 yd tactical solution- just a superior brush gun.

November 17, 1999, 08:12 AM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Wow, guys,this is just what I'm looking for! Many thanks.... DeBee, got a Wms peep, not a tang sight. While I like tang sights, the Wms has done well for me. The 94's on Layaway down at Guns R Us. I'll be bailing it out shortly but not in time for gun season here in Md. No problem, I hunt a shotgun county and this 94 isn't needed for this season. When I get it, the first thing will be to sit and watch TV while cycling the action until my hands get tired. That should be enough to work mark the action parts. Then, it gets dissassembled and all the scratch marks inside get the Jeweler's rouge on a felt wheel routine. The trigger's not bad so it'll just get cleaned up instead of lightened. After a little Gunslick's applied and then wiped off to leave the thinnest of coats, it's reassembled. Then, I'll work over the wood and bbl band, mag tube stuff. When time allows, I hie myself out to the range and zero in,then fire a coupla three shot groups. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks...

November 17, 1999, 09:22 PM	#8
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Dave: I believe I read from another post that you have been hunting and shooting since 1956 so without question, you have already forgotten more than I will ever know. That having been said, let me quickly relate a personal experience to you. I have always sworn by the 30-06 prior to this year after 28 years of hunting Whitetail in Southeast AR. I still think it is the best all-around cartridge available today. I have never lost a deer with one but I have had the problem of Deer running up to 100 yards when shot at ranges of less than 100 yards. In the thickets we hunt, 100 yards may mean a lost animal. My older brother has always laughed at me as he took his budget grade Marlin w/a cheapo 4X and knocked deer down at ranges of 40 to 80 yards. I have always questioned the effectiveness of a 4X at distances around the 30 to 35 yard mark. The next time you visit your favorite gun shop (not a meglamart), pick up a 4X and look at the wall across from you then walk over to the window and look across the street. I will bet tonight's supper that you will be able to focus on the wall blurry as it may be and then quickly transition to the longer ranges across the street. The point I am making is that in my case, a 4X with those very close shots will actually help you to seperate the deer from the brush for better shot placement. Additionally, you have the option of mounting the low power optic of your choice (2X-4X)in the same manner as is typically done on a scout rifle. Above all, if you go with a scope,stay with a fixed power. The variables are worthless in the type of terrain you and I hunt in. The time taken to adjust the power setting may be all the time you have to get off a well placed shot. Certainly, I am not gunsmith and you have received some excellent advice on various accurizing methods. Nevertheless, I would not write off a red dot sight system or low power scope before trying a rifle outfitted in such a manner that might be accessed from a friend or from a full service gun range. Feel free to flame me if you feel I'm out of line and good luck with a must have rifle for every complete weapons collection. ------------------ "When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

November 18, 1999, 06:52 AM	#9
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	No flames, Will, we're merely disagreeing and not much of that.I save flames for ARAs, anti gunners, Clintonistas,etc... Owned a number of excellent 06's, and regard that caliber in a good bolt action as the ideal all around rifle. But we're talking a different story here. First used a peep sight in tne military, and it served me well in the late unpleasantness in SEA. Right now, there's at least 4 weapons here at Casa McC with them,and the only scope's on a 10-22 the kids plink with. Not dumping on scopes OR other's choices here. Have tried out red dot sights and various scopes, but prefer the tried and true peep for my style of hunting. Simple, rugged, and accurate. Re variable scopes, last 06 here was a tackdriver with the Leopold 3.5-10X on it. The one time I used it for hunting,turned it down to 3.5X, and taped it there. Plenty of magnification for everything less than beanfield shots. About 06s and long blood trails, the 06 I had before that one had a brush load worked up for it. After some research,I used the 170 gr Ballistic Tip Solid Base projectile that Nosler made for the 30-30, and a starting load of IMR 4350 to produce a brush load that cloverleafed at 100 yards if I did my part. The one deer I finished off for a friend with it was DRT. Back to the 94. While I presently mostly hunt shotgun counties, that may change. The 94 gives me one outstanding option,and one of more versatility than a bolt gun and scope. Of course, I'll probably get another one of those once Daughter's out of college. Have a good'un and thanks...