.41 special?

mdlowry · April 18, 2002, 09:13 PM

I was on sixgun.com a while back and noticed an article about making a .41 special. I was wondering if anyone here has tried something like this. I think it would work well in something like the Taurus 415 snubnose. If someone has tried this, can you post some data?

**Mike Irwin** · April 19, 2002, 02:04 AM

I've thought about it, haven't done it yet, though.

C.R.Sam · April 19, 2002, 08:32 AM

Thought about it. Figured why bother. Just download the .41mag cases. The old short .41s, kinda sucked. Of course they weren't really in the same family. Big healed bullets and small cases.

Sam

Alex Johnson · April 19, 2002, 01:21 PM

I can't really see any need for one either, if the current crop of pistols can take the pressure of the magnum why bother making the chambers shorter. Sounds like an idea some engineer would have come up with.

bfoster · April 19, 2002, 01:37 PM

I've worked with the old 41 Long Colt enough to give a bit of information that may be of use to you.

Inside lubricated ammunition for this cartridge doesn't shoot as badly as its reputation would have it. Use of either late production Western ammunition or handloads using Lyman 386178 cast 1:30 gave 25 yard groups of roughly 3¼" in a 1920's vintage Colt Army special.

Outside lubricated ammunition loaded with Lyman 386177 was a disappointment at first. The cylinder of the old Colt was too short to use with the heel bullet loaded into cases of the current standard length, so I shortened the case length to the old standard. Accuracy was disappointing, to say the least. Looking for the trouble, I decided that the forcing cone was far too small for these bullets. I recut it to the same dimensions I'd use on a 41 Magnum. With this modification the revolver is capable of 2½" groups.

The 41 Long Colt is more powerful than a standard 38 Special, and pleasant to shoot, but in no way as flexible as the 44 Special. A 41 Special built using a modern revolver would have a number of advantages over the 41 Long Colt, first & foremost bullet selection, despite the limited current selection of moulds for 41 caliber handgun bullets.

In the end, it may well not be worthwhile to construct a revolver dedicated to 41 Special. Sam is right. Downloading the 41 Mag works just fine. You might also explore seating bullets farther into the case than usual. Be careful, pressure can rise quickly with small incremental increases of powder in this situation. I strongly recommend use of a case cannelure if you can't crimp the bullet in the normal fashion.

Bob

Johnny Guest · April 19, 2002, 05:57 PM

- - - on the old .41 Colt cartridge.

IIRC, the point of the .41 Special was to allow for a lerger diameter bullet at moderate velocities, in revolvers most comfortable at .357 pressures. And the shorted chamber would prevent loading full-house .41 magnum cartridges into the lighter handgun. I could be wrong in some of this.

Best,
Johnny

C.R.Sam · April 19, 2002, 06:02 PM

Not more'n a whisker of difference in working pressures tween .357mag and .41mag. More total force due to larger area of .41 tho.

Sam....picky ol fart.

gundog98k · April 21, 2002, 01:29 PM

mdlowry,

Where did you get your M1894S? I have been searching and searching and cant find one. At least not that I can afford.

My .41's: 8" mod 57; 2-3/4" 657, Ruger blackhawk

Gundog98k

mdlowry · April 21, 2002, 05:29 PM

I found my 1894s on Auction Arms. It was a NIB (tag was still attached) that I picked up for $560 + shipping.

I noticed that Guns America has an 1894ccl for sale ($640). Here!

hbear222 · April 30, 2002, 11:54 PM

I think the idea was that a .41 special five shot cylinder would be the same size as a 6 shot .38 special, now that would be a real "Pocket Rocket". Glad to see I'm not the only one who loves the .41 mag. (Marlin, Ruger Blackhawk, Ruger Redhawk 5.5" and a Model 58)

mdlowry · May 1, 2002, 07:35 AM

hbear,

Welcome to TFL!

I'd like to see something like that also. Unfortunatly, I don't think anyone will make something like that.

mdlowry

WINTERVILLE WILL · May 1, 2002, 03:38 PM

The .41 special is a shortened .41 magnum (like .44 special is to .44 magnum)...load it as you would a .44 special. Shorten .41 magnum cases .10 inch and use 210 grain lead bullets...makes a good, accurate plinking load. Don't really know why this round was developed...but fun to play with.

hbear222 · May 1, 2002, 09:50 PM

I think it would be a useful load, for instance a .41 special could be loaded to the original .41 police load (210 grn lead swc at about 900 fps) with no problem. You could make that a 210 grn lead Hollow Point (a .41 version of the winchester .38 special 158 grn HP +P)and would work neat in that Taurus titanium revolver and you could then make the cylinder shorter, actually make the whole revolver shorter. I don't know if anybody has tried to fire the Taurus titanium with full power loads, I'd guess that would surely clean out your sinuses!!!

PS That's what you call one heck of a run-on sentence........

April 18, 2002, 09:13 PM	#1
mdlowry Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 417	.41 special? I was on sixgun.com a while back and noticed an article about making a .41 special. I was wondering if anyone here has tried something like this. I think it would work well in something like the Taurus 415 snubnose. If someone has tried this, can you post some data? __________________ My PGP key

April 19, 2002, 02:04 AM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	I've thought about it, haven't done it yet, though. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 19, 2002, 01:21 PM	#4
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	I can't really see any need for one either, if the current crop of pistols can take the pressure of the magnum why bother making the chambers shorter. Sounds like an idea some engineer would have come up with. __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

April 19, 2002, 05:57 PM	#6
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	bfoster, thanks for the insights - - - - - - on the old .41 Colt cartridge. IIRC, the point of the .41 Special was to allow for a lerger diameter bullet at moderate velocities, in revolvers most comfortable at .357 pressures. And the shorted chamber would prevent loading full-house .41 magnum cartridges into the lighter handgun. I could be wrong in some of this. Best, Johnny

April 21, 2002, 01:29 PM	#8
gundog98k Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Cesspool of suburbia (not by choice) Posts: 62	Marlin 1894S mdlowry, Where did you get your M1894S? I have been searching and searching and cant find one. At least not that I can afford. My .41's: 8" mod 57; 2-3/4" 657, Ruger blackhawk Gundog98k

April 19, 2002, 08:32 AM	#3
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Thought about it. Figured why bother. Just download the .41mag cases. The old short .41s, kinda sucked. Of course they weren't really in the same family. Big healed bullets and small cases. Sam

April 19, 2002, 01:37 PM	#5
bfoster Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: N. of Fords Switch, OK, USA Posts: 297	I've worked with the old 41 Long Colt enough to give a bit of information that may be of use to you. Inside lubricated ammunition for this cartridge doesn't shoot as badly as its reputation would have it. Use of either late production Western ammunition or handloads using Lyman 386178 cast 1:30 gave 25 yard groups of roughly 3¼" in a 1920's vintage Colt Army special. Outside lubricated ammunition loaded with Lyman 386177 was a disappointment at first. The cylinder of the old Colt was too short to use with the heel bullet loaded into cases of the current standard length, so I shortened the case length to the old standard. Accuracy was disappointing, to say the least. Looking for the trouble, I decided that the forcing cone was far too small for these bullets. I recut it to the same dimensions I'd use on a 41 Magnum. With this modification the revolver is capable of 2½" groups. The 41 Long Colt is more powerful than a standard 38 Special, and pleasant to shoot, but in no way as flexible as the 44 Special. A 41 Special built using a modern revolver would have a number of advantages over the 41 Long Colt, first & foremost bullet selection, despite the limited current selection of moulds for 41 caliber handgun bullets. In the end, it may well not be worthwhile to construct a revolver dedicated to 41 Special. Sam is right. Downloading the 41 Mag works just fine. You might also explore seating bullets farther into the case than usual. Be careful, pressure can rise quickly with small incremental increases of powder in this situation. I strongly recommend use of a case cannelure if you can't crimp the bullet in the normal fashion. Bob

April 19, 2002, 06:02 PM	#7
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Not more'n a whisker of difference in working pressures tween .357mag and .41mag. More total force due to larger area of .41 tho. Sam....picky ol fart.

April 21, 2002, 05:29 PM	#9
mdlowry Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 417	1894s I found my 1894s on Auction Arms. It was a NIB (tag was still attached) that I picked up for $560 + shipping. I noticed that Guns America has an 1894ccl for sale ($640). Here! __________________ My PGP key

April 30, 2002, 11:54 PM	#10
hbear222 Junior Member Join Date: April 30, 2002 Location: Vermont Posts: 2	I think the idea was that a .41 special five shot cylinder would be the same size as a 6 shot .38 special, now that would be a real "Pocket Rocket". Glad to see I'm not the only one who loves the .41 mag. (Marlin, Ruger Blackhawk, Ruger Redhawk 5.5" and a Model 58)

May 1, 2002, 07:35 AM	#11
mdlowry Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 417	hbear, Welcome to TFL! I'd like to see something like that also. Unfortunatly, I don't think anyone will make something like that. mdlowry __________________ My PGP key

May 1, 2002, 03:38 PM	#12
WINTERVILLE WILL Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: Winterville, Ga. USA Posts: 50	The .41 special is a shortened .41 magnum (like .44 special is to .44 magnum)...load it as you would a .44 special. Shorten .41 magnum cases .10 inch and use 210 grain lead bullets...makes a good, accurate plinking load. Don't really know why this round was developed...but fun to play with. __________________ NRA Life SASS Life SBSS Life DAMFOOL #64 45-70...reach out and thump somethin'

May 1, 2002, 09:50 PM	#13
hbear222 Junior Member Join Date: April 30, 2002 Location: Vermont Posts: 2	I think it would be a useful load, for instance a .41 special could be loaded to the original .41 police load (210 grn lead swc at about 900 fps) with no problem. You could make that a 210 grn lead Hollow Point (a .41 version of the winchester .38 special 158 grn HP +P)and would work neat in that Taurus titanium revolver and you could then make the cylinder shorter, actually make the whole revolver shorter. I don't know if anybody has tried to fire the Taurus titanium with full power loads, I'd guess that would surely clean out your sinuses!!! PS That's what you call one heck of a run-on sentence........