Lead Ingots?

WSM MAGNUM · February 17, 2008, 09:45 AM

This is a question for bullet casters. I have been thinking about going back to casting bullets again that I used to do about 25 years ago. I was just doing it for fun and did`nt know much about alloys back then. I am considering taking it up again because of rising costs of materials. So, I have to brush up on my casting knowledge.
I would like to know about how many .45 cal. bullets would 4 ingots cast? 4 ingots weigh approx. 30 lbs. Also, where are buying your lead? I was looking into Midways alloys. I have considered looking for wheel weights, but I think that source is getting harder to find as well. Your thoughts?

zxcvbob · February 17, 2008, 10:14 AM

One pound is 7000 grains. Let's assume you are casting 200 grain bullets. Each pound will give you about 35 bullets (7000/200), so 30 pounds is just over 1000 bullets.

I scrounge lead from the backstop at the outdoor pistol range, in the parking lots near tire stores, and I have one tiny tire shop that gives me his old wheel weights. Some day I need to get a tyvek hasmat suit and an appropriate dust mask and clean out the indoor pistol range backstop. There's probably 1000 pounds of lead in there, mixed with sand. I'm not real sure how you separate it.

I bought some 63/37 and some leadfree solder bars on eBay to use to supplement my scrap with tin, but I haven't had to use any of it yet.

Most of the tire shops have a contract with a battery company to take their old weights. Some even pay to get rid of them, but they won't give/sell them to the public (they act like you must be a terrorist out to poison the schoolchildren if you even ask for lead)

Bob

Travis Two · February 17, 2008, 10:14 AM

simple math. 7000 grs to a lb. Take the actual bullet weight and divide by seven to get the weight of 1000 bullets. Of course you have to allow for waste or sprues or some left in the pot ETC.

rwilson452 · February 17, 2008, 12:11 PM

You can screen it and get the big chunks. You jut need a screen that is big enough to pass the sand but no bigger. I've done this sort of thing with one of those paper painting suits I just use masking tape to seal up the openings and a good dust mask. afterward I trash the outer garments including gloves. then shower real well. I forgot, I tape over the foot ware then remove the tape.

I have never had any lead ingestion issues.

Quote:

I scrounge lead from the backstop at the outdoor pistol range, in the parking lots near tire stores, and I have one tiny tire shop that gives me his old wheel weights. Some day I need to get a tyvek hasmat suit and an appropriate dust mask and clean out the indoor pistol range backstop. There's probably 1000 pounds of lead in there, mixed with sand. I'm not real sure how you separate it.

WSM MAGNUM · February 17, 2008, 12:44 PM

Thanks guys. Never occured me to use the grains/pound conversion. So, 30lbs. of lead should yield around 900 230 gr. .45 cal. lead boolits.
I looked up the price of lead alloys from Midway and depending on which alloy you buy, it is around $90- $100 for 4 ingots (30lbs.)
You can just buy 1000 lead bullets from Mastercast or elsewhere for half that price. Just does not seem worth it to cast your own unless you can find the lead cheaper or for free.

rwilson452 · February 17, 2008, 01:32 PM

Your correct. Unless you have a cheap or free source of lead it is not cost effective. It is fun anyway.

Quote:

Thanks guys. Never occured me to use the grains/pound conversion. So, 30lbs. of lead should yield around 900 230 gr. .45 cal. lead boolits.
I looked up the price of lead alloys from Midway and depending on which alloy you buy, it is around $90- $100 for 4 ingots (30lbs.)
You can just buy 1000 lead bullets from Mastercast or elsewhere for half that price. Just does not seem worth it to cast your own unless you can find the lead cheaper or for free.

zxcvbob · February 17, 2008, 02:27 PM

Check the local scrap metal dealers.

Also, hard lead sells for about $1 per pound on eBay. Shipping is not that bad if you buy 50 to 70 pounds and have it sent in a flat-rate box. (there's one guy I noticed that casts lead into thick 8.5x12" sheets and ships in a flat rate envelope)

TexasSeaRay · February 17, 2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

I looked up the price of lead alloys from Midway and depending on which alloy you buy, it is around $90- $100 for 4 ingots (30lbs.)

You can just buy 1000 lead bullets from Mastercast or elsewhere for half that price. Just does not seem worth it to cast your own unless you can find the lead cheaper or for free.

First off, you'll never go wrong buying from Mike (Carbondale, IL) at Mastercastbullets.com. To date, his bullets are in the top two of cast bullets I've reloaded and shot in over twenty years of reloading and competitive and target shooting.

Secondly, I don't know what Midway's problem is, but their prices are going up, their shipping is going up and the number of backorders they have is going up.

I'm a big Midway fan and have been a loyal customer for even longer than I've been reloading. But I'm starting to get a little disgruntled, and as of late, have begun testing the waters elsewhere.

Their BS hazmat fees (refusing to ship primers and powder together, then charging you TWO hazmat fees, plus TWO "shipping and handling" fees) is what's done it for me.

As was mentioned, you can buy pure lead on Ebay and elsewhere for around a dollar per pound. At that rate, your (close to) one thousand 45 caliber bullets would cost you around ten bucks. That's a helluva lot better deal than flat getting ripped off paying Midway's outrageous prices for "virgin metals."

And finally, you can't go wrong with Mike at Mastercastbullets.com. I will always order from him and be a loyal customer until he either runs me off (not very likely) or he retires--regardless of how many bullets I cast.

Jeff

nobody_special · February 18, 2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

As was mentioned, you can buy pure lead on Ebay and elsewhere for around a dollar per pound. At that rate, your (close to) one thousand 45 caliber bullets would cost you around ten bucks.

Uh, check your math... at $1 per pound, for 230 gr. bullets, that's $32.86 plus shipping.

TexasSeaRay · February 18, 2008, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Uh, check your math...

Ooops.

That's why I majored in advertising--only six hours of math were required.

You can see how much of it stuck with me thirty years later.

Jeff

Mach II Sailor · February 18, 2008, 08:24 AM

speaking of lead ingots, many years ago a friend asked me if wanted some lead ingots, free of course, but i had to go get them, as it turned out they were 2"X4"X8" blocks of pure lead and weighed exactly 25 lbs. they come from a place that done some radiation testing and they had a fire, over 10,000 lbs. of lead melted on the concrete floor and they threw out well over 1,000 of these 25 lb. ingots, at the time i had an E-300 71 Ford van, i loaded lead blocks in that thing till the springs started to sag, on my way home i never experienced a smoother ride in that old van, i gave away most of those blocks to my muzzle loading friends, today i use the 20 or so i have left for weighing down tarps and other things.., now, back to your regular scheduled forum

freakshow10mm · February 18, 2008, 11:55 AM

Don't buy alloy from Midway. They rape you.

Go to tire shops and get wheel weights. Go to the scrapper and get lead and wheel weights. 50¢/lb is the upper end depending on market.

Be careful on eBay. GET INSURANCE WITH YOUR EBAY STUFF. Those idiots don't know how to package heavy items in the flat rate boxes. I've bought and sold hundreds of pounds of lead via the mail and never, ever had an issue. Duct tape and a hot glue gun.

WSM MAGNUM · February 18, 2008, 04:45 PM

Well, I`ll see if I can get some lead from my local tire and auto mechanics. If that does not do well then I`ll buy cast bullets from Mastercast.
You guys were talking about slugging the bore on other threads. Do you mean to just get a lead sinker that is close to the size of the bore and shove that thing through? Would that damage the bore and get stuck. Why not just use calipers and measure groove to groove?
I want to reload .45 ACP with lead now. I thought all .45 barrels are .452 dia., so would`nt I need .452 dia. lead bullets?

zxcvbob · February 18, 2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

I want to reload .45 ACP with lead now. I thought all .45 barrels are .452 dia., so would`nt I need .452 dia. lead bullets?

That's a very good assumption, unless you have some reason to think there's a problem. Don't worry about it. Use .452 bullets and you should be fine.

I use this bullet a lot in .45 Colts, and I've heard that it's also works well in .45 ACP:
http://www.fmreloading.com/cgi-bin/m...uct_Code=90287

Sport45 · February 19, 2008, 05:06 AM

Quote:

You guys were talking about slugging the bore on other threads. Do you mean to just get a lead sinker that is close to the size of the bore and shove that thing through? Would that damage the bore and get stuck. Why not just use calipers and measure groove to groove?

Yeah, you pretty much have to shove a chunk of soft lead down the bore. It would be very difficult to accurately measure the muzzle diameter with calipers, and even if you could all you would know is muzzle diameter. Driving a lead ball through the bore tells you the minimum bore diameter. You can also feel where the bore is tight or loose. Barrel ringing will leave a loose spot and sometimes the crush fit into the receiver can leave a tight spot.

WSM MAGNUM · February 20, 2008, 05:16 PM

I went to 4 or 5 tire places and asked for used wheel weights. A couple gave me a can full. Not much. One place will call be back to let me know if I can have about a 5 gal. bucket full of wheel weights.
A couple of places gave some baloney about EPA issues and lead hazards. Like I did`nt know.

They looked at me real suspicious and asked what am I going to do with it.
If I can`t find a source to get lead on a as needed basis, then I don`t think it would be a wise move to buy new casting equipment. It would be a waste of money. I am going to check my local scrap metal yard to see if that would be a good source.
If not then the best move for me is to buy from Mastercast.

zxcvbob · February 20, 2008, 06:00 PM

If you can get that 5 gallon bucketful, that's enough to make it worth your while even if you can't find an ongoing source. (probably 100 pounds of usable lead in there)

I told you they'd act like you were a terrorist.

C17A · February 20, 2008, 11:32 PM

Safety first when dealing with molten lead. Use a well-ventilated area (preferably outside, don't breathe the smoke), face shield or goggles, and leather gloves. I use an old stainless steel cookpot to melt the lead. Any water in the lead can cause a catastrophic steam explosion and scatter molten lead around. Beware of a live round in range scrap that can do the same thing. Any equipment once used for lead, such as spoons and melting pots, must never be used for food preparation ever again.

If at all possible, try to get linotype, which is a eutectic alloy of 84-12-4 percentage lead-antimony-tin. It casts perfect bullets every time. I bought a hundred lbs at .50/lb some years ago and I use it to add tin to my bullet melt metal. You'll need about 1% tin to get good fill-out on your bullets. Linotype is too good for plinking bullets.

Buying lead from an indoor range is problematic. There's usually lots of target paper that burns up, bullet jackets, and crud mixed in that has to be scooped off the top after melting down. It's only a good deal if you get it free. I have to add some linotype for enough tin, since many commercial swaged bullets (like 22 RF) have little tin.

Wheelweights are good to use, you have to scoop off the steel clips and road grime when melting them down. A five gallon bucket is about 120 lbs worth. I add a bit of linotype to wheelweights for extra tin also. Make sure you flux enough to keep alloying elements from oxidizing out. I go around with a coffee can to various places and they'll give me a can full free "for making fishing weights."

I pour ingots into a Lyman ingot mould, which makes then about 1 to 1-1/2 lbs each.

Zinc or aluminum contamination will ruin your alloy--you'll never get good fill-out. Avoid wheel weights that are shiny bright with a rusted clip--they're probably made with zinc.

Don't forget the bullet lube. Lee liquid lube (which apparently is Alox 606-55 commercial rust preventative) works well for small batches. If you don't have a sizer, just cast and coat with Lee liquid lube, load to a midrange charge and shoot. I use 50-50 beeswax-Alox with a Lyman sizer. The cheapest I've found is Jake's, off ebay. I size 45ACP to .453, 38 and 357 bullets to .358.

Here's an online article you might find useful...

http://www.austinrifleclub.org/Docum...ing_Primer.pdf

February 17, 2008, 09:45 AM	#1
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	Lead Ingots? This is a question for bullet casters. I have been thinking about going back to casting bullets again that I used to do about 25 years ago. I was just doing it for fun and did`nt know much about alloys back then. I am considering taking it up again because of rising costs of materials. So, I have to brush up on my casting knowledge. I would like to know about how many .45 cal. bullets would 4 ingots cast? 4 ingots weigh approx. 30 lbs. Also, where are buying your lead? I was looking into Midways alloys. I have considered looking for wheel weights, but I think that source is getting harder to find as well. Your thoughts? __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

February 17, 2008, 12:44 PM	#5
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	Thanks guys. Never occured me to use the grains/pound conversion. So, 30lbs. of lead should yield around 900 230 gr. .45 cal. lead boolits. I looked up the price of lead alloys from Midway and depending on which alloy you buy, it is around $90- $100 for 4 ingots (30lbs.) You can just buy 1000 lead bullets from Mastercast or elsewhere for half that price. Just does not seem worth it to cast your own unless you can find the lead cheaper or for free. __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

February 18, 2008, 04:45 PM	#13
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	Well, I`ll see if I can get some lead from my local tire and auto mechanics. If that does not do well then I`ll buy cast bullets from Mastercast. You guys were talking about slugging the bore on other threads. Do you mean to just get a lead sinker that is close to the size of the bore and shove that thing through? Would that damage the bore and get stuck. Why not just use calipers and measure groove to groove? I want to reload .45 ACP with lead now. I thought all .45 barrels are .452 dia., so would`nt I need .452 dia. lead bullets? __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

February 20, 2008, 05:16 PM	#16
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	I went to 4 or 5 tire places and asked for used wheel weights. A couple gave me a can full. Not much. One place will call be back to let me know if I can have about a 5 gal. bucket full of wheel weights. A couple of places gave some baloney about EPA issues and lead hazards. Like I did`nt know. They looked at me real suspicious and asked what am I going to do with it. If I can`t find a source to get lead on a as needed basis, then I don`t think it would be a wise move to buy new casting equipment. It would be a waste of money. I am going to check my local scrap metal yard to see if that would be a good source. If not then the best move for me is to buy from Mastercast. __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

February 17, 2008, 10:14 AM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	One pound is 7000 grains. Let's assume you are casting 200 grain bullets. Each pound will give you about 35 bullets (7000/200), so 30 pounds is just over 1000 bullets. I scrounge lead from the backstop at the outdoor pistol range, in the parking lots near tire stores, and I have one tiny tire shop that gives me his old wheel weights. Some day I need to get a tyvek hasmat suit and an appropriate dust mask and clean out the indoor pistol range backstop. There's probably 1000 pounds of lead in there, mixed with sand. I'm not real sure how you separate it. I bought some 63/37 and some leadfree solder bars on eBay to use to supplement my scrap with tin, but I haven't had to use any of it yet. Most of the tire shops have a contract with a battery company to take their old weights. Some even pay to get rid of them, but they won't give/sell them to the public (they act like you must be a terrorist out to poison the schoolchildren if you even ask for lead) Bob

February 17, 2008, 10:14 AM	#3
Travis Two Member Join Date: September 27, 2006 Posts: 63	simple math. 7000 grs to a lb. Take the actual bullet weight and divide by seven to get the weight of 1000 bullets. Of course you have to allow for waste or sprues or some left in the pot ETC.

February 17, 2008, 02:27 PM	#7
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Check the local scrap metal dealers. Also, hard lead sells for about $1 per pound on eBay. Shipping is not that bad if you buy 50 to 70 pounds and have it sent in a flat-rate box. (there's one guy I noticed that casts lead into thick 8.5x12" sheets and ships in a flat rate envelope)

February 18, 2008, 08:24 AM	#11
Mach II Sailor Junior member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 480	speaking of lead ingots, many years ago a friend asked me if wanted some lead ingots, free of course, but i had to go get them, as it turned out they were 2"X4"X8" blocks of pure lead and weighed exactly 25 lbs. they come from a place that done some radiation testing and they had a fire, over 10,000 lbs. of lead melted on the concrete floor and they threw out well over 1,000 of these 25 lb. ingots, at the time i had an E-300 71 Ford van, i loaded lead blocks in that thing till the springs started to sag, on my way home i never experienced a smoother ride in that old van, i gave away most of those blocks to my muzzle loading friends, today i use the 20 or so i have left for weighing down tarps and other things.., now, back to your regular scheduled forum

February 18, 2008, 11:55 AM	#12
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Don't buy alloy from Midway. They rape you. Go to tire shops and get wheel weights. Go to the scrapper and get lead and wheel weights. 50¢/lb is the upper end depending on market. Be careful on eBay. GET INSURANCE WITH YOUR EBAY STUFF. Those idiots don't know how to package heavy items in the flat rate boxes. I've bought and sold hundreds of pounds of lead via the mail and never, ever had an issue. Duct tape and a hot glue gun.

February 20, 2008, 06:00 PM	#17
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	If you can get that 5 gallon bucketful, that's enough to make it worth your while even if you can't find an ongoing source. (probably 100 pounds of usable lead in there) I told you they'd act like you were a terrorist.

February 20, 2008, 11:32 PM	#18
C17A Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 37	Safety first when dealing with molten lead. Use a well-ventilated area (preferably outside, don't breathe the smoke), face shield or goggles, and leather gloves. I use an old stainless steel cookpot to melt the lead. Any water in the lead can cause a catastrophic steam explosion and scatter molten lead around. Beware of a live round in range scrap that can do the same thing. Any equipment once used for lead, such as spoons and melting pots, must never be used for food preparation ever again. If at all possible, try to get linotype, which is a eutectic alloy of 84-12-4 percentage lead-antimony-tin. It casts perfect bullets every time. I bought a hundred lbs at .50/lb some years ago and I use it to add tin to my bullet melt metal. You'll need about 1% tin to get good fill-out on your bullets. Linotype is too good for plinking bullets. Buying lead from an indoor range is problematic. There's usually lots of target paper that burns up, bullet jackets, and crud mixed in that has to be scooped off the top after melting down. It's only a good deal if you get it free. I have to add some linotype for enough tin, since many commercial swaged bullets (like 22 RF) have little tin. Wheelweights are good to use, you have to scoop off the steel clips and road grime when melting them down. A five gallon bucket is about 120 lbs worth. I add a bit of linotype to wheelweights for extra tin also. Make sure you flux enough to keep alloying elements from oxidizing out. I go around with a coffee can to various places and they'll give me a can full free "for making fishing weights." I pour ingots into a Lyman ingot mould, which makes then about 1 to 1-1/2 lbs each. Zinc or aluminum contamination will ruin your alloy--you'll never get good fill-out. Avoid wheel weights that are shiny bright with a rusted clip--they're probably made with zinc. Don't forget the bullet lube. Lee liquid lube (which apparently is Alox 606-55 commercial rust preventative) works well for small batches. If you don't have a sizer, just cast and coat with Lee liquid lube, load to a midrange charge and shoot. I use 50-50 beeswax-Alox with a Lyman sizer. The cheapest I've found is Jake's, off ebay. I size 45ACP to .453, 38 and 357 bullets to .358. Here's an online article you might find useful... http://www.austinrifleclub.org/Docum...ing_Primer.pdf