To gate or not to gate?

RRR · June 10, 2009, 03:56 PM

Converting my 36 Navy steel frame to centerfire. Now do a gate one or drop in? I like to shoot BP too so I am not sure what I want to do. Input is wellcome.

Smokin_Gun · June 10, 2009, 05:49 PM

What I'd like to do with a Colt '51 Navy is get the Kirst drop in .38 Colt and cut out the rear of the Kirst to load from rear after cuttin' out the cap port to be a loading port.
If it were a Remington '58 Navy then I'd go with an R&D .38 Colt drop in...
I'm not sure but I did hear someone say one or the other Mfg. were not making the .38 Colt Conversions anymore. Anyone know if this is true?

buckspen · June 11, 2009, 07:07 PM

I bought a Kirst Konverter with gated ring in .38 caliber for my Colt 1851 Navy revolver. It fit right into the gun with no work whatsoever. (An earlier R&D cylinder that I had purchased from Brownell's did not fit either of two guns and was sent back.)
The gun seems to function normally, but I have not had the chance to fire it yet. Of course, it's awkward to load and unload, having to remove the wedge and barrel each time so it's tempting to grind out the frame to allow loading with the cylinder in the gun. It would be a neat conversion, but I don't think I have the skill to do this right.
Haven't decided on this yet, because I probably will not shoot the gun much.

- - Buckspen

Smokin_Gun · June 11, 2009, 07:53 PM

Either get an inexpensive 51 to practice ion with Mr. Dremel... or give "Rifle" on here or Wayne on Voy.com/60048/ a holler and i am sure he'd be glad to help you out. He's an xlint Gunsmith will fit that port and reblue it for you too.

(footnote you could make the loading port with hand files also and reblue with Perma Blue Pasre...it's a cold blue but works better that the liquid stuff.)

Oldfalguy · June 11, 2009, 10:23 PM

I went with the gate on a SS Remington and also added the ejector in place of the loading lever- Easily switch back and forth-
Intend to get a blue Remington and use the same Krist with it-
While I am pretty used to doing odd stuff with a Dremel over the years I paid a fella to do it for me and re blue it-
Haven't decided whether to shoot 45LC cowboy or the weaker Schofields.
Might have to get a box of each.

Smokin_Gun · June 11, 2009, 11:54 PM

I gotta say I do like the .45Schofield for accuracy and pleasure of firing with...don't get me wrong I love the .45Colt R&D Conv. in my Rogers&Spencer filled with 35gr of fffg BP and a 250gr soft lead boolit a pretty hot load even in the Dragoon it was a hot...I'll be tryin' ffg next go around.
First two shots fired out of five, Duelist style, I nailed two bean cans at 25yards ... The other three went into the OJ Carton.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...9/25ydDead.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../Downrange.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../DirtyGuns.jpg

RRR · June 12, 2009, 08:15 AM

I did a 38 SW con on a CVA 36 Navy brass frame years ago. Been smithing on and off for 20 year or so. I believe I will go with a gate(maybe) even with a gated con I can still shoot BP from time to time.

RRR · June 12, 2009, 08:19 AM

Smokin_Gun did you get the gun hot as in a really hot water bath before you used the liquid Perma? I have real good luck that way.

SamStafford · June 12, 2009, 10:03 AM

I have two 58 Remmys and I wouldn't gate them. Just me.

BTW, I shoot both C&B and .45LCs in these.

RRR · June 13, 2009, 11:44 AM

Going to gate. I figger less ware and tare then taking the barrel off ever time. NOW Kist or R&D? Also looking for the best price too.

Hawg · June 13, 2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

I'm not sure but I did hear someone say one or the other Mfg. were not making the .38 Colt Conversions anymore. Anyone know if this is true?

Kirst still advertises the .38 LC for 51's on their website and Buffalo Arms still lists the R&D in .38 LC. Was it me I'd go with Kirst and get the ejector rod setup

gokyo · June 22, 2009, 04:49 AM

I have looked at the Kirst gate system looks very cool.

Does R&D make a gate system? All I have seen from them is the system where you pull the whole cylinder off and take off the end cap then reload the cylinder and then put the gun back together.

Could some one link some various gated systems for me to understand this better.

madcratebuilder · June 22, 2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

I did a 38 SW con on a CVA 36 Navy brass frame years ago. Been smithing on and off for 20 year or so. I believe I will go with a gate(maybe) even with a gated con I can still shoot BP from time to time.

How did the brass frame hold up? I have read that it's not recommended but I think if you kept the cylinder end play tight it would be OK.

RRR · June 22, 2009, 10:02 AM

madcratebuilder I shot it atlest 200-300 times did fine. The 38 smith it kinda weak. Now if I remember right the kit was 39.99 or 49.99 had a breach ring helded 6 rounds and it the time was only made for brass frames. Don't?can't recall where I got it from, shotgunnews maybe.?. Like I typed it was 20 years ago. Heck to give the ammo more kick I drilled out about nose added a few grains of powder and topped them off with small rifle primers LOL.

Smokin_Gun · June 22, 2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Smokin_Gun did you get the gun hot as in a really hot water bath before you used the liquid Perma? I have real good luck that way.

No RRR I din't do that...and used the Perma Blue Paste works better than the liquid seems to last longer. I'll try the hot water heating next time, and maybe a 170-200f oven heat. What would happen ifin ya gave one a bakin' after a preheated application? Would it keep longer ya think?
Gotta love BP Guns always somethin' new to try. Thanks for the tip RRR...

RRR · June 23, 2009, 09:16 AM

Smokin you mean bake after the blue?

Smokin_Gun · June 24, 2009, 11:56 AM

Yeh, baked Rem or Colt after the Perma blue paste application on the hot Rev....or would it melt it in or off?

gokyo · June 24, 2009, 12:20 PM

I bought my pair of 1860 armies because I wanted a BP pistol.

I have decided that if I want a metallic cartridge pistol i will just save up my money and buy a Ruger Black Hawk.

Maybe in 44mag.

CraigC · June 24, 2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

I have decided that if I want a metallic cartridge pistol i will just save up my money and buy a Ruger Black Hawk.

That's cool but cartridge conversions are completely historically accurate and represent an interesting and oft-overlooked era in sixgun history. Some folks, like myself, are completely enamoured with them.

gokyo · June 24, 2009, 12:58 PM

Why not just get an "open top" premade conversion made by Uberti

CraigC · June 24, 2009, 01:32 PM

That's my preference. I like to have an ejector and gate. A more accurate reproduction of the original Richards or Richards-Mason conversions on the 1851 and 1860. If you want something like the Walker, Dragoon or pocket models, you have to have one built by specialists like Kenny Howell or R.L. Millington.

PS, the "Open Top" 1871-1872 model wasn't a conversion but Colt's first big bore cartridge revolver. Made that way from the start with a new receiver.

gokyo · June 24, 2009, 09:23 PM

I stand corrected. Thank you.

Gok

CaptainCrossman · June 27, 2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Converting my 36 Navy steel frame to centerfire. Now do a gate one or drop in? I like to shoot BP too so I am not sure what I want to do. Input is wellcome.

gate is way quicker to load/reload, you'll get tired of pulling wedge on a Colt every time, to reload. And having to pull wedge/barrel each time, only natural that the barrel/wedge gets beat up/nicked up more likely.

I'd gate.

scrat · July 3, 2009, 11:33 PM

gated its the only way here are some pics of mine.

scrat · July 3, 2009, 11:34 PM

June 10, 2009, 03:56 PM	#1
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	To gate or not to gate? Converting my 36 Navy steel frame to centerfire. Now do a gate one or drop in? I like to shoot BP too so I am not sure what I want to do. Input is wellcome.

June 10, 2009, 05:49 PM	#2
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	What I'd like to do with a Colt '51 Navy is get the Kirst drop in .38 Colt and cut out the rear of the Kirst to load from rear after cuttin' out the cap port to be a loading port. If it were a Remington '58 Navy then I'd go with an R&D .38 Colt drop in... I'm not sure but I did hear someone say one or the other Mfg. were not making the .38 Colt Conversions anymore. Anyone know if this is true? __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 11, 2009, 07:07 PM	#3
buckspen Junior Member Join Date: April 17, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 8	Kirst Konverter I bought a Kirst Konverter with gated ring in .38 caliber for my Colt 1851 Navy revolver. It fit right into the gun with no work whatsoever. (An earlier R&D cylinder that I had purchased from Brownell's did not fit either of two guns and was sent back.) The gun seems to function normally, but I have not had the chance to fire it yet. Of course, it's awkward to load and unload, having to remove the wedge and barrel each time so it's tempting to grind out the frame to allow loading with the cylinder in the gun. It would be a neat conversion, but I don't think I have the skill to do this right. Haven't decided on this yet, because I probably will not shoot the gun much. - - Buckspen

June 11, 2009, 07:53 PM	#4
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Either get an inexpensive 51 to practice ion with Mr. Dremel... or give "Rifle" on here or Wayne on Voy.com/60048/ a holler and i am sure he'd be glad to help you out. He's an xlint Gunsmith will fit that port and reblue it for you too. (footnote you could make the loading port with hand files also and reblue with Perma Blue Pasre...it's a cold blue but works better that the liquid stuff.) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 11, 2009, 10:23 PM	#5
Oldfalguy Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 126	Krist with the gate I went with the gate on a SS Remington and also added the ejector in place of the loading lever- Easily switch back and forth- Intend to get a blue Remington and use the same Krist with it- While I am pretty used to doing odd stuff with a Dremel over the years I paid a fella to do it for me and re blue it- Haven't decided whether to shoot 45LC cowboy or the weaker Schofields. Might have to get a box of each.

June 11, 2009, 11:54 PM	#6
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I gotta say I do like the .45Schofield for accuracy and pleasure of firing with...don't get me wrong I love the .45Colt R&D Conv. in my Rogers&Spencer filled with 35gr of fffg BP and a 250gr soft lead boolit a pretty hot load even in the Dragoon it was a hot...I'll be tryin' ffg next go around. First two shots fired out of five, Duelist style, I nailed two bean cans at 25yards ... The other three went into the OJ Carton. http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...9/25ydDead.jpg http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../Downrange.jpg http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../DirtyGuns.jpg __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 12, 2009, 08:15 AM	#7
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	I did a 38 SW con on a CVA 36 Navy brass frame years ago. Been smithing on and off for 20 year or so. I believe I will go with a gate(maybe) even with a gated con I can still shoot BP from time to time.

June 12, 2009, 08:19 AM	#8
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	Smokin_Gun did you get the gun hot as in a really hot water bath before you used the liquid Perma? I have real good luck that way.

June 12, 2009, 10:03 AM	#9
SamStafford Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Portageville, MO. 63873 Posts: 162	I have two 58 Remmys and I wouldn't gate them. Just me. BTW, I shoot both C&B and .45LCs in these.

June 13, 2009, 11:44 AM	#10
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	Going to gate. I figger less ware and tare then taking the barrel off ever time. NOW Kist or R&D? Also looking for the best price too.

June 22, 2009, 04:49 AM	#12
gokyo Member Join Date: September 25, 2008 Posts: 44	I have looked at the Kirst gate system looks very cool. Does R&D make a gate system? All I have seen from them is the system where you pull the whole cylinder off and take off the end cap then reload the cylinder and then put the gun back together. Could some one link some various gated systems for me to understand this better. Last edited by gokyo; June 24, 2009 at 12:18 PM.

June 22, 2009, 10:02 AM	#14
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	madcratebuilder I shot it atlest 200-300 times did fine. The 38 smith it kinda weak. Now if I remember right the kit was 39.99 or 49.99 had a breach ring helded 6 rounds and it the time was only made for brass frames. Don't?can't recall where I got it from, shotgunnews maybe.?. Like I typed it was 20 years ago. Heck to give the ammo more kick I drilled out about nose added a few grains of powder and topped them off with small rifle primers LOL.

June 23, 2009, 09:16 AM	#16
RRR Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2005 Posts: 100	Smokin you mean bake after the blue?

June 24, 2009, 11:56 AM	#17
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Yeh, baked Rem or Colt after the Perma blue paste application on the hot Rev....or would it melt it in or off? __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 24, 2009, 12:20 PM	#18
gokyo Member Join Date: September 25, 2008 Posts: 44	I bought my pair of 1860 armies because I wanted a BP pistol. I have decided that if I want a metallic cartridge pistol i will just save up my money and buy a Ruger Black Hawk. Maybe in 44mag.

June 24, 2009, 12:58 PM	#20
gokyo Member Join Date: September 25, 2008 Posts: 44	Why not just get an "open top" premade conversion made by Uberti

June 24, 2009, 01:32 PM	#21
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	That's my preference. I like to have an ejector and gate. A more accurate reproduction of the original Richards or Richards-Mason conversions on the 1851 and 1860. If you want something like the Walker, Dragoon or pocket models, you have to have one built by specialists like Kenny Howell or R.L. Millington. PS, the "Open Top" 1871-1872 model wasn't a conversion but Colt's first big bore cartridge revolver. Made that way from the start with a new receiver.

June 24, 2009, 09:23 PM	#22
gokyo Member Join Date: September 25, 2008 Posts: 44	I stand corrected. Thank you. Gok

July 3, 2009, 11:33 PM	#24
scrat Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2008 Posts: 214	gated its the only way here are some pics of mine.

July 3, 2009, 11:34 PM	#25
scrat Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2008 Posts: 214