Buying used brass

[TailGator]

I am new to reloading and recently purchased 500 pieces of once-fired .380 ACP brass from an online retailer. The seller states on the website that "every piece" they sell is usable, but without using any words like "guarantee" or "warranty."

When it arrived, I immediately saw that there were several pieces (turned out to be 11) that were white metal that did not attract a magnet, and which I presume to be aluminum. After tumbling it and handling it, I also found another 23 pieces with the case mouth too mashed to go into a die (in my judgement), and about twice that many that are questionable. The bag says the brass is not inspected in any way, which seems to be anathema to the website statement that every piece they sell is usable.

I am not one to raise a stink for no reason, and I honestly think that I would have accepted a certain number of mashed cases without the website statement that raised my expectations. The aluminum cases stood out so much that even glancing at the product would have allowed them to be sorted out; it is hard to feel good about buying them.

So my question is: How should I respond? Is this within industry standards? Should I make the seller aware of the problem and see how he responds? I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but neither do I want to order again from someone who provides substandard product.

[jepp2]

Most sellers include extras to cover any that are not functional. How many toal cases did you receive?

Even with new brass except for the premium brands, you can expect to lose a few right out of the bag. With no extras included.

It would be very unusual to buy once fired brass that doesn't have some/a few that can't be used.

[Blindstitch]

Last year I bought virgin brass from winchester and 20% of those were unusable.

I've had great success with used brass but I do count and separate everything as the last batch of 300 I bought I got 325 and 2 turned out to be another caliber but the rest were good.

If the number of bad subtracted with the total you bought still has a large percentage bad then contact the seller.

[mikld]

34 cases out of 500 ain't very many, but it's more than I'd expect, and I might just tell the vendor about it. If there are no creases in the dings in the mouths of the "bad" cases, try running them through the sizer/decapper. They may straighten out enough to use. Otherwise, contact the seller, they may make it good...

[GP100man]

It`s useable , even if it`s used to fill the recycle bucket !!!

But as jepp2 stated they usually include an extra amount to cover the "weighed out" count.

[kilimanjaro]

34 out of 500 is 7% defective.

Absent the 'every piece is usable', I'd chalk it up and not order again, that is a large percentage. Should be 3% or less.

He offered an implied warranty that you would get 500 pieces, within reason, that are usable for the intended purpose, not the scrap bucket.

Give him a ring and see if he'll ship out a few replacements.

[skizzums]

that's rough, I have bought used brass about a dozen times, I usually get a few that are berdan primed and a few that have crushed mouths, but not as many defects as you are seeing. watch out or the berdan primed though, those will ruin your pin an your day

[chiefr]

I too have been taken when buying OF brass and more than once. I bought 100 7mm mag at a gun show not long ago. When I got home I could see more than one bolt face pattern on the base meaning the cases had been fired a number of times. Also did the case head separation check and determined these cases were dangerous. Tossed the whole lot.

Been buying OF brass on GB and there are plenty of good deals and plenty of sellers. I have yet to be disappointed. I do study feedback religiously. Most reloaders are picky and when they find unusable brass in even small numbers it is reflected in feedback.

[Sport45]

As mentioned above, it's hard to say if you got a raw deal without knowing the overpack.

How many pieces of useable brass did you get?

[Nick_C_S]

I miss the days when if you needed brass, you'd just go out to the range for some shooting, and while you were out there, just scoop up as much as you needed. It was just laying around everywhere. To a young whippersnapper, that must sound like fairytale stuff. But it's true.

Over the last couple years, I was finally faced with needing to replace my aging brass. After consideration, I decided that just buying new stuff was worth the extra expense.

When I read posts like this, I know I made the right decision. Sorry about the issues you're having. If I had to guess, the vendor knows and doesn't really care. It's a seller's market right now. There's probably better places to get used brass. Hopefully someone here will point you in a better direction (I haven't read all the posts). Or you can buy new if you have a few extra $'s to kick around.

[Brotherbadger]

When i buy brass, most places will throw in extra brass in case of stuff like that happening(some bullet companies as well). Still, 7% loss is unacceptable to me. I'd put in a nicely worded email to the company and see what happens. Unfortunately mistakes can happen to any company(although the fact that they say they don't check the brass seems odd to me. You'd think they would at least glance at it). The key is to see what they do to remedy the situation.

I miss the days when if you needed brass, you'd just go out to the range for some shooting, and while you were out there, just scoop up as much as you needed. It was just laying around everywhere.

I still have a rural outdoor range around me where i can do this, but it is getting increasingly rare to do so.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

1st... are you sure the silver cases weren't nickel ??? if they were boxer primed ( had a single hole in the center of the primer pocket ) I'd suspect they were nickel, & those are fully reloadable...

that said, I'm a collector, & reload close to 75 different calibers... I was dangerously low on cases for the firearms I've collected, of course in this era of shortages, buying used / once fired ( pretty hard to guaranty they are actually once fired ) is the most practical way to get cases, & really the only way on some less common calibers...

380 compounds the problem, as it's so close to 9mm, that you are likely to get some of those thrown in, there are brands that are berdan primed, & being a semi auto, the case mouths can get dented on initial firing...

as a person who buys a lot of once fired, if you are buying them on the auction sites, look at the sellers other items... are they "brass rats" that look like they pick up everything they can find... are they range owners ??? some state they don't allow reloads on their ranges, are they indoor ranges ??? is it some guy that has odds & ends he's selling ( not just brass ) & he likely shot them himself ??? you could see that the brass could vary a lot between an indoor range owner, who doesn't allow reloads, & a brass rat, that's scavenging brass to sell, any place he can find it piled up in quantities large enough to make it worth his while to pick it up...

... lately I've been buying a lot of 25 ACP for my custom revolver ( building up a solid brass supply ) & I bought a group of brass from a named business selling brass, literally 50% were berdan primed... I let the seller know, & when I didn't hear anything back from them, I just made a mental note, that I wouldn't buy brass from that person again... on the flip side of the coin, I have a couple great places I buy brass repeatedly, & now on some of the rarer stuff, he just e-mails me to see if I'm interested, before he lists it

[Unclenick]

If the silver cases are nickel-plated, they will weigh about the same as the brass cases. If they are aluminum. they will be about 1/3 the weight of the brass cases. It should be pretty obvious. Folks have reloaded the aluminum before, but it gets brittle and cracks in one or two cycles. Also check for Berdan priming (two small vents in the bottom of the case instead of a centered flash hole) with aluminum cases. That would make them unusable in standard die setups, and they can break a standard decapping pin.

Crushed mouths can often be pulled open with screwdriver blades, then resized and expanded to bring them back to shape. Just check that the finished length is within spec for a cartridge intended to headspace on the case mouth, like the .380 ACP.

[TailGator]

Thanks for all the advice. And Nick_C_S, if you were referring to me as a "young whippersnapper," I am old enough to take that as a compliment. But relative to reloading, I guess I qualify.

Being a dumb rookie, I didn't count the pieces I received, and I have now mixed them in with the other brass I have saved, so I am not sure if I got the "Baker's dozen." That approach makes plenty of sense, though.

And I will check the weight of the silver cases - thanks, Uncle Nick.

Magnum Wheel Man, I didn't get any 9 mm cases, but I got one .32 case. I didn't mention it before because griping about one out of 500 seemed petty.

I spent a little time with needle-nosed pliers, spreading them inside the case mouths, and the bent cases now appear to be worth a try. I suppose in that sense I have already made a mountain of a molehill, but I still feel the website painted a little rosier picture of the product than reality. I will consider this a lesson in several respects. Many thanks to the TFL community for their input.

[Jim243]

I have done many purchases from Midway USA of their bulk class 3 brass. Generally class 3 brass is the bottom of the barrel and you need to inspect it. First thing to do is tumble the heck out of it. It should be running you between $0.03 to $0.05 per case. So if you have a number of bad cases no great loss.

When packaging the cases there is no counting done, they weight the bulk cases on a scale to estimate the total number in the lot. So no inspection is done, that is your job once you receive them.

If you are disappointed with the quality of the cases, then go to a pistol range and put in the labor of picking up the cases yourself or just buy new cases.

Jim

[OzeanJaeger]

I only buy brass if I'm making match grade cartridges, and then I only buy Starline.

They have bags of used brass in my reloading store @$15 for 50, which is a complete rip-off as far as I'm concerned.

I don't like buying store bought ammo any more than the next person, but if you're running low on serviceable pieces of brass I have always believed it's a much better deal to get good factory ammo (Not Federal), shoot it, and then reuse the brass.

I thought I was cheap, but if you're salvaging crushed cases with a screwdriver my hat is doffed to you!

[TailGator]

Uncle Nick: I checked the weights, and they must be nickle plated brass. I am going to reload them and see how it goes. Perhaps we should change your name to Carnac the Magnificent (and if you know the reference, it shows that you are as old as me).

It wasn't Midway that I bought it from. I did not name the source on purpose, because I didn't want to badmouth anyone; I still don't, because it seems that no complaint is justified and the product I bought was not significantly substandard. I appreciate the education regarding classes of brass. The only indication of quality at the site from which I purchased it was the "every piece usable" line that I previously referenced. After the straightening I did, it may well yet be so, and in any case since I did not check the count I and may have been given extra brass to cover, I have no gripe. I asked questions - not one of my posts was intended to malign anyone or any company, and I am sorry that some seem to have found offence where none was intended.

The price was more like $0.08 a piece for the brass I bought than the $.03 to $.05 for class 3 brass. .380 ACP is still hard to find and expensive in my locale. What little .380 brass I had was recovered from my own shooting of new ammo, but I wasn't satisfied with how much I had available. At that price, it is still more cost efficient to buy brass for reloading that to buy ammo at prices exceeding $.50 a round. I am pressing on ahead (pun intended).

[mchapman]

And Heeerr's Johnny.

[RC20]

I bought 600 30-06 cases from an online dealer in Wisconsin (I don't have the name but they also reload brass)

At 18 cents a case that was good, also polished and free shipping.

Out of the first 100 a couple were marginal and no guaranteed came with it but they had good review.

I figure its worth it and am not up to counting 600 just to see if any extras.

[Forrest68]

Ok, I bought 1000 9mm over a year ago when I couldnt find th ebrass I knew I had saved, when I recieved it I sorted it to find that a bunch had some issue that I cant remember what it was, it was well over 10% of the brass. I removed myself from the sellers list, he immediately contacted me to see why I no longer was on his buyers list, I explained it and he sent me 250 pieces of cleaned , polished and deprimed brass, to make up for the problem. I later found my huge stash of brass and havent needed to buy anymore since, but give the seller a chance he may make good without raisen a major stink over it.

[G_P]

A few months ago I bought 1000 pieces of 9mm brass. It was listed as "once fired commercial brass cases". Over 100 of them were military brass with crimped primers.

I emailed the company and they never replied but a few days later a bag of 100+ 9mm cases showed up in my mailbox.

I always expect to find a few damaged or berdan primed cases mixed in with bulk used brass orders. So far the brass that I have ordered has included enough extras to more than cover the ones I had to throw in the scrap bucket.


Lately I have been picking them up at the range. Last time I went I spent 3 hours there shooting and came home with over 700 pieces of .45 brass I picked up in the immediate area near my lane.

[Plunker22]

I have bought 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and 357 Sig. lately, mostly off Amazon, various sellers, as I just got into reloading. I do look at the ratings of the sellers. I have gotten a few bad pieces that have gone in the trash, and with the 9's got a couple 380's and 40's! But over all have been happy! OH, after de-priming, I re-clean to get the primer holes, although everything has come pre-cleaned. So far have used about half except for the 600 45's, which I haven't touched yet.

The only ones I have had a problem with is the 357 Sig., which are all Speer, with small primer holes! BUT reading on forums, this was not a surprise, and dealing with it. The primers almost seem to be glued in.

[A pause for the COZ]

Pistol brass I usually dont get to fussy about. Most vendors put in a few extra to account for the bad ones.
if he is not, There are plenty of others who do. So move on.

I too have been taken when buying OF brass and more than once. I bought 100 7mm mag at a gun show not long ago. When I got home I could see more than one bolt face pattern on the base meaning the cases had been fired a number of times. Also did the case head separation check and determined these cases were dangerous. Tossed the whole lot.

I too have learned my lesson about rifle brass. The only once fire I buy any more are from people who I already have a relation ship with.
Easy to get once fired 308 and 223 brass just buy a pile of the military stuff.

Really got took on some 303 brass. Was suppose to be once fired and all were close to case head separation. I tossed the whole lot. Only buy new on that stuff any more. Same with 7.62x54 any bottle neck cases that head space off the base.
They seem to take a beating and stretch allot.

[pctechdude]

When I'm in need of pistol brass, I go to a few places I've come to trust. One is a shooting range in Delaware Ohio. And the other is a website. Never had too many issues from either. In the range brass I usually find about 5 pieces of 380 mixed in with 9mm.

Rifle brass is a different story, either brand new or from someone I trust. A coworker who is an ex-marine and marine Corp pistol team and hi power shooter has buckets of once fired lake city. Most from 70's and 80's. He's shared quite a few with me as we shoot often.

Top notch stuff and if I ask for some he just says bring a bucket and help yourself.

[cryogenic419]

I look at it all as a huge crapshoot until you figure out what places sell the best brass and whos got the best sources of once fired.

I've found a really good place for .223, they say its all LC and damned if it isn't all LC. Once you get past the dried mud and dust the brass is good stuff. The extra they seem to put in there seems to be hovering around 10%. I got some from another place that between the crushed case mouths or crushed brass altogether, mixed headstamps when they claimed LC, fired blank brass, etc you were lucky to end up with 450 good ones out of 500.

I'm lucky to have made a friend in the owner of a gun shop/indoor range. Hes got the machinery to sort basic sizes 9mm/380, .45acp/.45gap, .40, .38/357. He sells that off to somebody but if I ask him will sell me a gallon ziplock bag of whatever size for $20. The downside is there are times when 9mm has a good number of .380, same goes for .45 acp, the occasional .45gap...but for what I'm paying I'm not complaining about having to sort through. Plus I've gotten a good number of cases for those calibers should I ever go down that route.